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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2022 01:25:00(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
I received my 39199 SBBCI 193 524 yesterday. I had a chance to test the functions today and to do a quick comparison with the Roco 79917 193 521.
Both models are well done. The new Maerklin body is much better than the earlier Hobby versions (Thank you Maerklin).

Right away, I noted that the Roco model has a lighter shade of pale blue for the sky part of the side panel. The Maerklin one has a slightly darker tone to it.
Roco
IMG_3533.jpeg
Maerklin
IMG_3531.jpeg

These photos seems to suggest that the Roco model is more accurate:
https://railcolornews.co...amNeckar20200424dfph.jpg
https://assets.new.sieme...abe-sbb-cargo-int-04.jpg

In any case, the new arrival will allow me to shift the Roco model to multiple unit operation with either one of the red (LokRoll) Vectrons or with the expected ELL machine. I will have to do some testing with the ELL unit as that will be AFAIK my first Roco Vectron with the new motor.

The Maerklin Vectron will be normally hauling a short container train on it's own or could be used in combination with either my SBB Cargo Re 474 or MRCE/SBB ES64F4.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 15 October 2022 21:05:06(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
I just received my Roco ELL Vectron leased to SBB Cargo International (79955). This locomotive will look very nice in tandem with one of my Südleasing (Blue) or LokRoll (Red) SBB Cargo Vectrons at the head of a container train.
What makes this model very special is that Maerklin and LSM already released models of an ELL SBB Cargo Vectron, but they chose to model the version with 2 pantographs (Germany/Austria/Hungary?/Romania?) and not the international version (Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Holland). I would think that the multi system version would be more appealing as a model because it appeals to a greater market than the Germany/Austria variant would and that is why I waited for this model so long.

https://www.elektrolokar.../basic/siem_22154_03.jpg

Regards

Mike C
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Offline marklinist5999  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2022 14:01:10(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,865
Location: Michigan, Troy
Vectrons are the latest trend, and I have two. The MRCE "Lea" and the DB Gruen, so I think that is enough, although most of them have very attractive colors and motif's.
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 17 October 2022 21:44:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
Right now, the Vectron is probably the leading design for modern electric locomotive in Europe. Siemens now focuses on the Vectron family and is no longer producing the ES64 U (Taurus) and ES64 F (189) series. Bombardier Transport (Rail) (ex-ADtranz/ABB) was acquired by Alstom and they continue to market the Traxx series, but it seems to me that most railways are now preferring the Vectron to the 186/187 machines.
With more and more Vectrons coming into service, they will soon be the most common machine on rails throughout Europe. Expect to see more and more Vectrons in passenger traffic as well.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 18 October 2022 14:23:23(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,865
Location: Michigan, Troy
I didn't know the Taurus had ended production, and it seems Siemens wants to make anything Adtranz related obsolete, and the 101 is gone as well.
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2022 17:17:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I didn't know the Taurus had ended production, and it seems Siemens wants to make anything Adtranz related obsolete, and the 101 is gone as well.


Each company maintains a product line. In the case of Siemens, the Vectron has supplanted the Eurosprinter Series, which began with the ES 64P (DB BR 127) which went into service as the ES64 F (BR 152) and later the ES64 F4 (BR 189) (Multisystem). The OBB had specific requirements for their planned locomotive and this became the Class 1016 (Taurus) which was marketed internationally as the ES64 U (BR 182). Later versions made for the Belgian SNCB (Class 18/19) and the Portuguese CP (Class 4700) led to the exterior appearance of the Vectron class.

Once Siemens began marketing the Vectron series, production on the Eurosprinter series wrapped up when the final ES64F4 and ES64 U (1216) were delivered.
Siemens now focuses on the Vectron and other models which are now described as being part of the Sprinter series as the market has expanded beyond Europe.

The 101 was a product of ADTranz (ABB/Daimler). Like the SBB Re 460, the BR 101 saw limited life outside of it's original market. The design was adapted for use by NJ Transit (ALP 46). Elements of the BR 101 were also used in the development of the DB Cargo Class 145, which went on to become the prototype for the Bombardier Traxx series (145/146/185/186/187/etc).

Siemens and Alstom are now the leading rivals for locomotive traction with Stadler and CRRC (China) as lesser rivals.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Copenhagen  
#7 Posted : 18 October 2022 17:45:05(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
How are the Marklin sounds compared to Roco?
Sometimes the Marklin horn sounds are truly embarrasing because they sound like a cheap toy hoot.

I have a Roco DB Vectron and the Danish DSB Vectron from Piko. I think the DSB Vectron has a beautiful color, a deeper red than DB red and with som grey on top. It's a beautiful sight to see in real life and a true power house. We are getting 40 plus engines for regional traffic.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2022 23:52:01(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,368
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Right now, the Vectron is probably the leading design for modern electric locomotive in Europe. ....
.. they will soon be the most common machine on rails throughout Europe. Expect to see more and more Vectrons in passenger traffic as well.

Regards

Mike C


Yes I saw a Vectron 193 in Berlin in CD colours on a Czech international train (with CD coaches) in 2018.
I think it might have been a daily train Prague to Hamburg.
The BR193 is on lease from ELL.
UserPostedImage

Thanks for the review.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 19 October 2022 07:43:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 19 October 2022 06:52:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
I have Vectrons by Roco, Maerklin and LS Models. The LSM one is going back to the dealer due to a problem with the LEDs. Once I get it back, I will update this thread with a comparison of the three models.
Compared to the Roco and LSM models, the Maerklin sounds leave a lot to be desired. Still, the newer Maerklin (non-hobby) ones (DB and SBB) from 2021/22 have some nice features.

Regards

Mike C
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Online mmervine  
#10 Posted : 19 October 2022 20:04:19(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,844
Location: Keene, NH
Mike-I hope all is well up north! Question for you...Roco says that their Vectrons only have one traction tire. Can you confirm? I have not purchased any as they would not make it up my helix with a consist and only one traction tire. Also, do you know what decoder they are currently using?

mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
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Offline marklinist5999  
#11 Posted : 20 October 2022 00:53:55(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,865
Location: Michigan, Troy
I've also read that, in my 2020 catalogue for every Roco Vectron. Their A/C versions usually have one less geared axle than the D.C. because of the slider. My 78749 A/C br 218 diesel has 2 tires. The D.C. veriosn lists 1.
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 20 October 2022 04:28:02(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: mmervine Go to Quoted Post
Mike-I hope all is well up north! Question for you...Roco says that their Vectrons only have one traction tire. Can you confirm? I have not purchased any as they would not make it up my helix with a consist and only one traction tire. Also, do you know what decoder they are currently using?

mark


The Roco Vectrons have Zimo OEM decoders. I really like the sound on these.
From what I can see on my new ELL machine, the AC version seems to have at least 2 traction tires.
Mine actually seems to have one axle with traction tires per bogie
IMG_3899.jpeg

I will have to check my other models. The ELL one is the first Vietnam (new motor) model.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 20 October 2022 04:35:14(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I've also read that, in my 2020 catalogue for every Roco Vectron. Their A/C versions usually have one less geared axle than the D.C. because of the slider. My 78749 A/C br 218 diesel has 2 tires. The D.C. veriosn lists 1.


As I stated to Mark, my ELL SBB (AC) [Vietnam] has 4 traction tires, 2 axles with tires on each bogie and all four axles powered.
I have to check my Südleasing (Blue), Hupac (Blue) and LokRoll (Red) SBB machines to see if the earlier models were the same.

The Roco catalog usually mentions how many axles powered and how many traction tires for AC and DC versions.
The 2022 New Items states 3 axles powered and 1 axle with traction tires for most of the Vectrons.
I will have to look into this. The photo of my new ELL one shows 2 axles with traction tires and I could not manually rotate any of the axles, suggesting that all four are powered.

Regards

Mike C
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Online mmervine  
#14 Posted : 20 October 2022 13:21:35(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,844
Location: Keene, NH
Mike-thanks for the info!
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline Copenhagen  
#15 Posted : 27 October 2022 13:25:48(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
From a thread in a Danish forum it seems that there is sound related problem with Maerklin Vectrons in the 39xxx series.
The way to see the problem is to have it placed on the track at stand still then follow these steps:

Activate motorsound
Drive a bit back and forth
Come to a halt
Deactivate motorsound after a few seconds
Wait about 30 seconds (20 to 40 seconds)
Activate motorsound
Try and drive forward or backwards - the train doesn't move, but sound works.

To get the train to work normally again either turn power off and back on (the STOP button) or wait a full 60 seconds.

The person reporting the issue is a experienced Maerklin user. He has downloaded the Vectron sound project into an older locomotive and it's getting the same, faulty behavior. He found the problem in the Danish DSB Vectron item 39331 and has later tested the sound projects from a German and an Austrian Vectron where he gets the same fault. There is a Danish Maerklin representative in the thread who is informed about the problem, and he will look into it.
......
There was just an update in the forum. The user has done some more testing and found that if the waiting time is between 0 and 22 seconds everything is fine. From 23 to 45 seconds there is a problem. No problem above 45 seconds.
The reason he found it is because he uses Windigipet and has a special routine for trains stopping and departing from platforms.
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Offline mike c  
#16 Posted : 27 October 2022 20:34:17(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,503
Location: Montreal, QC
I have not encountered any issues with my 39197 (DB) and 39199 (SBBCI) units.
I suspect that the issue is that the decoder is probably still processing the sounds for the stop when it is shut off and then there is a delay before the train starts moving again as the decoder goes through the sound/acceleration start cycle.
I have no experience with Windigipet and am using either a 6021 or MS2.

What happens if you try to start the train with sound off? Does it move right away?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Copenhagen  
#17 Posted : 27 October 2022 21:39:20(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Without sound on there shouldn't be any problem, based on his description.

He has a youtube channel, some of the videos have English subtitles. The video showing the problem can be seen with German subtitles over the Danish text.
https://m.youtube.com/wa...?v=NqgTxXdsA-8&t=60s

The name of his layout is "Kælderkøbing" which translates to something like: Cellartown because it's located in his cellar.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#18 Posted : 28 October 2022 05:44:51(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,368
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
...
The reason he found it is because he uses Windigipet and has a special routine for trains stopping and departing from platforms.


Hopefully (and seems likely) the problem is indicated only when using Windigipet or perhaps another computer control system.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Copenhagen  
#19 Posted : 28 October 2022 08:32:38(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 290
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
...
The reason he found it is because he uses Windigipet and has a special routine for trains stopping and departing from platforms.


Hopefully (and seems likely) the problem is indicated only when using Windigipet or perhaps another computer control system.

Kimball


No he found out about the problem because he has a special Windigipet routine for running in new locomotives. When he saw that the two new engines of the same type didn't run as expected he then performed manual tests on both a CS2 and an Ecos station.
It's a bug that most users probably won't see - but a bug anyway. The Danish Maerklin guy has already informed the German team about it and we'll see what happens.
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