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Offline JDennis  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2022 02:48:23(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Believe me, I tried really hard to figure this out without bothering you guys again, Got the 60971 programmer, read the really frustrating lack of instructions, and have been trying to reprogram a 60977 and program a 60975. Got more to do after that. I've been working on these things for hours and hours. Wish somebody actually wrote a book or a reasonably complete set of instructions, but haven't found either. So I apologize in advance for asking, but ...

On the first one, it was programmed by the dealer for my BR103 TEE train loco. Sounds are good but some stuff doesn't work quite right. Think I can see how to fix the f0 (headlight/taillight) functions, but there's no function for any whistle/horn. Furthermore, I hooked up the Aux1 circuit (on the decoder) to use it as an "engine room" or "cab" light, but cannot see how to map any f key to Aux1 (or any other Aux circuit). How do I tell it for example, that f1 operates Aux1?? Also don't have a whistle/horn function anywhere. So, if I want, for example, to make f3 blow the horn, where do I find the horn sound for a BR103. There must be thousands of sound files, and I can't find this ONE out of all of them. (Not speaking fluent German doesn't help, right?) Is there some way to locate these things without trying to read through all the files??

On this second decoder, a new 60975, want to program it with sounds for a BR41 Steamer. So, how do I find the sound files for that loco? How do I "attach" the "running sounds" and the whistle, etc. for this particular model loco. Where do I put them. How do I tell the programmer where they are.

I have the feeling there MUST be some simple answers to all these things but I sure can find it so far. I've programmed computers, complex computerized avionics systems for airplanes, etc. But without any kind of book or actual technical instructions, I'm just lost.

Thanks for any help you can give me. Thank you so much.

Dennis


Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2022 10:57:21(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,335
Location: Australia
Not the best documentation from Marklin. I have used this thing many times and I would also like to see a book full of good examples.

In all the decoders I have programmed, I started with the project for that loco (or class of loco) downloaded from the Marklin server and uploaded that onto the decoder. If the specific loco lacks some features, like firebox lights, then I switch them off. It seems to be easier to switch off things using the decoder programmer than adding them on. If the whistle is missing in the BR 103 project, then it is possible that they never had one.
Adrian
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2022 14:05:37(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,015
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post
Believe me, I tried really hard to figure this out without bothering you guys again, Got the 60971 programmer, read the really frustrating lack of instructions, and have been trying to reprogram a 60977 and program a 60975. Got more to do after that. I've been working on these things for hours and hours. Wish somebody actually wrote a book or a reasonably complete set of instructions, but haven't found either. So I apologize in advance for asking, but ...

On the first one, it was programmed by the dealer for my BR103 TEE train loco. Sounds are good but some stuff doesn't work quite right. Think I can see how to fix the f0 (headlight/taillight) functions, but there's no function for any whistle/horn. Furthermore, I hooked up the Aux1 circuit (on the decoder) to use it as an "engine room" or "cab" light, but cannot see how to map any f key to Aux1 (or any other Aux circuit). How do I tell it for example, that f1 operates Aux1?? Also don't have a whistle/horn function anywhere. So, if I want, for example, to make f3 blow the horn, where do I find the horn sound for a BR103. There must be thousands of sound files, and I can't find this ONE out of all of them. (Not speaking fluent German doesn't help, right?) Is there some way to locate these things without trying to read through all the files??

On this second decoder, a new 60975, want to program it with sounds for a BR41 Steamer. So, how do I find the sound files for that loco? How do I "attach" the "running sounds" and the whistle, etc. for this particular model loco. Where do I put them. How do I tell the programmer where they are.

I have the feeling there MUST be some simple answers to all these things but I sure can find it so far. I've programmed computers, complex computerized avionics systems for airplanes, etc. But without any kind of book or actual technical instructions, I'm just lost.


Hi Dennis
I program my mSD3 using a CS3 but also when you use the LokProgrammer you must first start a Märklin-provided software the mDecoderTool3
This program, in connection to a LokProgrammer or a CS2 / CS3 allows many things
- load "Projects" from Märklin (you look into a tree library for the model number of the loco you wish to create a sound decoder for)
- load existing / previous projects that you may have done in the past
- read the connected decoder.

Here is how it looks when starting (sorry I have the German version but you can download the English one
mDecoderTool3.png
When starting, I strongly recommend to start with a Märklin project
- push the key "Load external projects from Märklin servers
- then you get a screen like this
mDecoderTool3 ExternalProjects.png
On the left column, you have a list of items where M means Märklin, L means LGB and T means Trix
Example M39 means a Märklin loco with a article number 39xxx
T21, means a Trix with an article number 21xxx

Selecting one group (here M39) open a table showing loco article number (Example M39004 is a BR01) so you may select from your exact loco or from a loco very close to the one you want

So, looking for a BR41, in the M39 section I cannot find any but browsing in the M37 section, I found the BR041 project M37928

You may check if you like the sounds by pressing the loudspeaker key.
Next you select the project and validate
Then you get a screen like this
mDecoderTool3ProjectLoaded.png
Now, the most important is to select the motor type by pressing the edit parameters key in the screen center
You get a screen like this where you select the motor type and also other parameters (max speed, speed curve, accel, brake delays
mDecoderTool3MotorType.png
When finished and having entered and validated the changes, it is time to edit the MAPPING.
This is about, which fonction key has which symbol, triggers which sound, commands which output, command which special function (no inertia, shunting speed).
This is also about the conditions to these function (always active or only, forwards, only reverse, only when moving, only when stopped) and the output type (Telex, Blinking, Smoke, Mars light, etc)
mDecoderTool3Mapping.png
When you are finished, you may save the project (for a later use) and transfer it to the LokProgrammer or the CS3 and start programming.

This is only a quick overview of the mDecoderTool3
Only when you get acquainted with the tool and the sound database can you do a project from scratch. I suggest to start with a Märklin, edit it in any way you like (including sounds, adding / changing them). There is so much more to say on this but I find the tool very powerful once you break the language barrier
I hope this helps
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline JDennis  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2022 18:17:34(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Jean and Adrian, yes thank you. The hint about starting with the project downloaded from the Marklin site makes excellent sense. Late last night I did find the one for the BR41, and as configured looks pretty straightforward. That should work well with little modification. Jean, the explanations about what the T, M, L on those project file directories mean helps de-mystify that a bit.

And Jean, the additional comments on the programming are very helpful. I do have the 60971 and it is operating nicely. Also have the MDT3 and am stumbling around in that with some success. Couple little issues you may be able to illuminate further:

The f0 function for the headlight/taillight is utterly bizarre the way they had it set up. The lights are on if it's going either direction, stopped or moving, and then with a bunch of "AND" conditions as well. I have a cab light wired to AUX1 and it even comes on sometimes, when it seems to want to. Am inclined to eliminate most of those conditions and just have the headlight on when in FWD and taillight when in REV. Simple. That I can handle.

OK, so once I have the head/tail lights working, then I still need to be able to control the Cab light on Aux1. So I have a single LED wired to the Aux1 lead (brn/red) and an orange lead, and I want to be able to control that with the f1. I cannot for the life of me find any reference to the AUX functions or how to tell f1 to control AUX1. Maybe they call it something else in the programmer? Can you point me in the right direction there?

Now, in the programming tool, there are like 31 functions. On my MS2 there are 5 (f0 - f4). So, even if I program say f23, how do i control it from the MS2?? There's no button for that. What am I missing there. How do those other functions get activated?

And finally (but not really because I'm likely to have more later), it never occurred to me that the BR103 might not have a horn/whistle. Seems all trains do but that is a possibility. Would you just leave it with no horn, or perhaps find another one on a different similar electric loco and use it?

Thanks again so very much for your help and patience.

Dennis
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2022 20:25:30(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,813
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post
Believe me, I tried really hard to figure this out without bothering you guys again, Got the 60971 programmer, read the really frustrating lack of instructions,


have you downloaded the manual from the marklin product page? Yes it is pretty minimal, but that is all that bit of hardware needs.

The important part is the manual for the software that goes with it. Download the manual after clicking the 'I have read the license agreement' tick box. It is available in four seperate languages.

Offline JDennis  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2022 20:53:11(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Thanks, Alan. I downloaded and read several times the "manuals" for the 60971 programmer and the MDT3 software. I find them very good about telling you what you CAN do, but not so much for telling you HOW to do what you can do. Confused

For example, I know I CAN (or should be able to) map F1 to the AUX1 circuit on the decoder. But I'll be darned if I can figure out how.

BTW, I went carefully through the Marklin downloadable projects and found about 5 for the BR103. Tried one of them and it appears to be much more suitable, with the head/tail lights working in a more conventional way, including a horn on f3, and with a cab light on f2. Now I can see if I correctly loaded that new project file to the physical decoder and I can try it out on the loco itself.

Y'all cross your fingers and hold your breath now!BigGrin

Offline JDennis  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2022 20:54:57(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Correction on my last post: The cab light is on f1, as it should be.
Offline JDennis  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2022 23:52:36(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Woo woo! BR103 working the way I want it to now (after just finding a different Marklin downloaded project and installing it). Thanks All. Now on to the BR41.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JDennis
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 26 January 2022 13:38:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,015
Location: Paris, France
Hi Dennis
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post
The f0 function for the headlight/taillight is utterly bizarre the way they had it set up. The lights are on if it's going either direction, stopped or moving, and then with a bunch of "AND" conditions as well. I have a cab light wired to AUX1 and it even comes on sometimes, when it seems to want to. Am inclined to eliminate most of those conditions and just have the headlight on when in FWD and taillight when in REV. Simple. That I can handle.


The F0 key activates BOTH the front light and the rear light output.

Next, the front light is only activated IF the loco goes forwards and the rear light is only activated IF the loco goes reverse.

Additionally , working on OUTPUTS (the wrench) you may decide the type of illumination / activation you wish:
- Normal (Dimmer) means you may dimm the output from 255 to 1
- Blinking
- random to simulate the fire illumination
- Telex (to drive a Telex coupling), better associate this with a Timed fonction (Turns OFF by itself after X seconds (10 is best)
- Smoke: the smoke production is linked to the speed, etc

Once you get the picture, it all works like a charm.
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

Now, in the programming tool, there are like 31 functions. On my MS2 there are 5 (f0 - f4). So, even if I program say f23, how do i control it from the MS2?? There's no button for that.

The MS2 with the latest software gives access to 31 functions. Look into this video 2 minutes into it to see how it is done

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline JDennis  
#10 Posted : 26 January 2022 15:35:57(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Thanks for the video, Jean. Will watch as soon as I get back from running errands.

Yes, f0 runs the headlights and taillights -- however the behaviors are not always set as you describe but they're pretty simple to change. In this case, the programming they had put in the 103 decoder from the dealer had the headlight and taillight ON in FWD and REV, whether stopped or running, but then with a whole bunch of AND conditions attached as well to modify the behaviors. The end result was that the headlamp generally went ON with the loco in FWD, and the taillight went on with it in REV, except that the cab light (wired to AUX1) came on when it went in REV and turned off when it went FWD. Like, why would one want it that way??

Anyway, as I mentioned, I found and downloaded a Marklin project for the 103 and installed it and the lights work normally and I can control the cab light with f1, AND I have a horn, so I'm happy with that.

So far though, I have not been able to figure out how you identify the AUX1 - AUX4 functions in the programming. I mean, let's say (though not quite prototypical of course) I wanted to put a red light on the loco roof hooked to AUX 3, and activate it with f4. (Silly, I know, but let's say I wanted to do that.) I'm sure one could do that but still haven't figured out how to identify and program AUX3, for example, as an output. Also, still working on messing with sound files and putting them in memory in the decoder. There are still a few mysteries left here, but I WILL figure this stuff out.

Thx again for the video. Don't have a CS but i'm sure the video will be illuminating. Every little bit of info is another piece of the puzzle. In the meantime I'm just happy to have the 103 behaving as it should.

Dennis
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 26 January 2022 16:47:42(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,015
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

So far though, I have not been able to figure out how you identify the AUX1 - AUX4 functions in the programming. I mean, let's say (though not quite prototypical of course) I wanted to put a red light on the loco roof hooked to AUX 3, and activate it with f4. (Silly, I know, but let's say I wanted to do that.) I'm sure one could do that but still haven't figured out how to identify and program AUX3, for example, as an output. Also, still working on messing with sound files and putting them in memory in the decoder. There are still a few mysteries left here, but I WILL figure this stuff out.


Hi Dennis
On the mDecoderTool3 screen here you see an example of Key 0 being selected
From there you may add Sound fonction (Press + in the Sound line)
You also may add new outputs fonctions (Press + in the Output line) (here labelled "Ausgänge" because of German)

mDecoderTool3Mapping.png

Of course, you may repeat the operation for any of the 32 keys

Of course it is easier using a CS3 because you have the result immediately.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline JDennis  
#12 Posted : 26 January 2022 18:08:36(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Got a chance to watch that video. I do have that Mobile Station and have found most of those functions, but think I'll go down and do the version update on it. Other than that, pretty straightforward stuff.

My haunting question (or at least one of them) is still how to assign one of the AUX functions as an output. The drop down list for outputs never offers that as a choice, so still not sure how I get to them. Suppose I'll stumble into it eventually. As I continue to explore the MDT3 software I find more and more capabilities but some are still eluding me. They're in there somewhere, right?

Thanks again for your ongoing help on this stuff. As frustrating as it can be, I really enjoy the challenges of learning about this stuff.

Dennis
Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2022 19:28:18(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,015
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post


My haunting question (or at least one of them) is still how to assign one of the AUX functions as an output. The drop down list for outputs never offers that as a choice, so still not sure how I get to them. Suppose I'll stumble into it eventually. As I continue to explore the MDT3 software I find more and more capabilities but some are still eluding me. They're in there somewhere, right?

I may not understand you.
There are 32 fonction keys on recent decoder
There are 8 AUX OUTPUTS on a recent Märklin decoder: AUX1, AUX2, AUX3, AUX4, Front Lights, Rear Lights, Motor 1, Motor 2 (Usually used to drive the motor but NOT always).
On the screen I just sent, you select the fonction key you want to work (top left),
then on the right, you click the OUTPUT + key (to add a physical output) and select the one you want.

There are multiple drop down lists for outputs: The wrench on OUPUTS will give you a table of all outputs and their configuration (dimmer, smoke, blink, Mars light, Telex and what dimming value )
The wrench on a specific output already assigned to a fonction key will allow you to specify if it should work in both directions or only forwards, only reverse, if it should be active when the KEY is pushed or if the KEY is release (NO or NC fonction) and much more.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline JDennis  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2022 20:57:21(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Nah, I think we're on the same page except for possibly some terminology. But I'm sorry if I have been inarticulate in describing my question. I'll try to do better here.

The standard outputs are of course, motor (one circuit, 2 wires Blu & Grn), headlamp (one circuit, 2 wires Gry & Or), taillamp (one circuit, 2 wires Y & Or). But there are 4 circuits specifically labelled as "AUX" 1 - 4. Those are the ones I'm referring to as AUX (or auxiliary in addition to the standard ones), and that's the way they're shown on the decoder board and in the books "AUX" 1, 2, 3, and 4.

So my question is this (and I'll try to use a more realistic example):

Let's say I want to put a red light in the cab of a steamer to simulate the glow of the firebox. So, I wire a red LED to AUX3 using (the Brn/Y and an Orange return). Fine. Now I've got a light that will work if I can figure out how to activate it. The decoder has no way to know my purpose for that light -- only that there is a complete circuit with a device (a light) wired to it. Then I decide I want to use the f7 button on my MS2 to operate my new red light.

So I go into the MDT3 utility on the Functions page, hit Wrench, highlight the f7 function, hit the Wrench again, and I get a Configure Outputs page. I select Output 1 pull down menu under mode. I get lots of choices -- and one of them says to behave like a firebox -- but none of them say to activate whatever is wired as AUX3. I might have a light hooked to AUX2, one at AUX3, and another at AUX4. How do I tell it to activate AUX3 when I push f7??

I hope that question makes sense. Where do I tell it to activate whatever might be hooked to the AUX3 terminal on the decoder board. It might be a fire box, might be a flashing blue light on the cowcatcher. Whatever physical device is hooked to AUX3, where do I tell it to do AUX3 when I push f7??

Does the question make any sense now? (I hope.) Thanks again for your patience and your expertise.

Dennis

Offline JDennis  
#15 Posted : 03 February 2022 02:47:13(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
OK, I found the answer to my question about mapping f keys to AUX functions. I'm sure you guys all knew this but I probably did a terrible job asking the question. OK, onward to the next great challenge!BigGrin
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