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Offline V211  
#1 Posted : 26 November 2021 05:40:20(UTC)
V211

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: New York, New York
I'm new to collecting model trains but as I cataloged my collection and looked through the model railroad wiki I noticed the lack of Saxon trains made by Marklin. They aren't just underrepresented it seems almost if Marklin has specifically worked around the Saxon trains including some really important ones like the BR 19. Is there a specific reason for this, some sort of legal issue etc? I am just curious.
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Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#2 Posted : 26 November 2021 22:45:04(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

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Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: New York City
Originally Posted by: V211 Go to Quoted Post
I'm new to collecting model trains but as I cataloged my collection and looked through the model railroad wiki I noticed the lack of Saxon trains made by Marklin. They aren't just underrepresented it seems almost if Marklin has specifically worked around the Saxon trains including some really important ones like the BR 19. Is there a specific reason for this, some sort of legal issue etc? I am just curious.


Heh …Saxon Railway that’s PIKO territory one would guess!

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Offline V211  
#3 Posted : 29 November 2021 22:09:48(UTC)
V211

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: New York, New York
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: V211 Go to Quoted Post
I'm new to collecting model trains but as I cataloged my collection and looked through the model railroad wiki I noticed the lack of Saxon trains made by Marklin. They aren't just underrepresented it seems almost if Marklin has specifically worked around the Saxon trains including some really important ones like the BR 19. Is there a specific reason for this, some sort of legal issue etc? I am just curious.


Heh …Saxon Railway that’s PIKO territory one would guess!




Yeah it seems so. Odd. Well at least someones making them! Only PIKO's i have are Ice 3 not too familar with that brand.
Offline rhfil  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2021 01:00:21(UTC)
rhfil

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Posts: 237
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Not sure how much import this is but if you look up Royal Saxon Railway on Wikipedia you will see that it apparently was mostly narrow gauge. That might be relevant to the Marklin decision.
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2021 08:43:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,707
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Not sure how much import this is but if you look up Royal Saxon Railway on Wikipedia you will see that it apparently was mostly narrow gauge.
I checked Wikipedia. Apparently it is mostly standard gauge.
https://de.wikipedia.org...ischen_Staatseisenbahnen

A list of their locomotive classes:
https://de.wikipedia.org...ischen_Staatseisenbahnen
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#6 Posted : 01 December 2021 15:47:18(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

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Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: New York City
Hallo Dreileiter modelers,
Well , Märklin released one or two box cars part of the Epoch I set and Trix released marvel Saxon Class XVIII which is “ Pacyfik “similar to Bavarian S3/6
Eine Legende auf Schienen - Märklin / Trix [ FINE ART ] - 42222 , BR XVIII H ( Baureihe 18.0 ) K.S.St.EB Sachsen Ep.I for ~ AC alternating current, [ AC 3-wire digital + analog]
Class XVIII H the " Kleine Sachsenstolz " of the BR 18.0 Class of the K.Sächs.St.EB from Ep. I of the Royal Saxon State Railroad, for ~AC alternating current operation with fitted DCC decoder [ for Märklin digital operation ]
Very Rare Model finely detailed brass handcrafted model for connoisseurs, vitrine model- almost unused with booklet and certificate in original packaging and custom TRIX wooden box & outer box plus white Gloves, Ect.


Extract from the Trix brochure accompanying the above mentioned model :

The smallest radius curve of the track for this model to negotiate is 553.9 mm.
The effort that Trix put into the fine art models to develop really sophisticated models has its price, of course, and only allows a limited number of pieces to be produced, ie all models are basically only produced once and in limited editions.

Prototype:

Royal Saxon State Railroad 2'C'1 h3, built from 1917 on till 1920

Use:

Heavy express passenger trains.

TRIX Model version:

Era I [ actually until 1926 ] handcrafted model in brass, in green-paint of the Royal Saxon State Railways, with smoke chamber door that can be opened, with digital decoder in the tender, drive by bell-shaped armature motor with flywheel in the boiler, 3 axles driven by coupling rods, coupling according to NEM with mounting as a retrofit kit is included.
Length over buffers 255 mm AC version, Originally with DELTA module replaced by Märklin dealer with ESU V5 sound decoder.
UserPostedImage
Saxon Railway was out of three major players in Epoch I very independent and so much so that they resisted the overtaking by powerful KAPEV
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Offline V211  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2021 05:14:13(UTC)
V211

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: New York, New York
Originally Posted by: Marklineisenbahn Go to Quoted Post
Hallo Dreileiter modelers,
Well , Märklin released one or two box cars part of the Epoch I set and Trix released marvel Saxon Class XVIII which is “ Pacyfik “similar to Bavarian S3/6
Eine Legende auf Schienen - Märklin / Trix [ FINE ART ] - 42222 , BR XVIII H ( Baureihe 18.0 ) K.S.St.EB Sachsen Ep.I for ~ AC alternating current, [ AC 3-wire digital + analog]
Class XVIII H the " Kleine Sachsenstolz " of the BR 18.0 Class of the K.Sächs.St.EB from Ep. I of the Royal Saxon State Railroad, for ~AC alternating current operation with fitted DCC decoder [ for Märklin digital operation ]
Very Rare Model finely detailed brass handcrafted model for connoisseurs, vitrine model- almost unused with booklet and certificate in original packaging and custom TRIX wooden box & outer box plus white Gloves, Ect.


Extract from the Trix brochure accompanying the above mentioned model :

The smallest radius curve of the track for this model to negotiate is 553.9 mm.
The effort that Trix put into the fine art models to develop really sophisticated models has its price, of course, and only allows a limited number of pieces to be produced, ie all models are basically only produced once and in limited editions.

Prototype:

Royal Saxon State Railroad 2'C'1 h3, built from 1917 on till 1920

Use:

Heavy express passenger trains.

TRIX Model version:

Era I [ actually until 1926 ] handcrafted model in brass, in green-paint of the Royal Saxon State Railways, with smoke chamber door that can be opened, with digital decoder in the tender, drive by bell-shaped armature motor with flywheel in the boiler, 3 axles driven by coupling rods, coupling according to NEM with mounting as a retrofit kit is included.
Length over buffers 255 mm AC version, Originally with DELTA module replaced by Märklin dealer with ESU V5 sound decoder.
UserPostedImage
Saxon Railway was out of three major players in Epoch I very independent and so much so that they resisted the overtaking by powerful KAPEV


Beautiful train.

Yeah the Saxon railways engines prominence in that era is why I am confused. While nowhere close to every train from the other state railways have been modeled the most important ones(like the other 18's) seem to have been released quite a few times by many companies.

For example the DB 19 is described by wiki as " at the time of their appearance the largest express locomotives in Europe" It's the sort of train you'd think would be commonly produced. I found some companies produce it but they are MMC and Guitzold rather than your Marklins, Rocos, Fleischmanns(or in this case Trix or Pico).



Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 02 December 2021 09:46:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,707
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: V211 Go to Quoted Post
For example the DB 19 [...]
Well, it is DR 19. No loco made it into the DB rooster AFAIK. And maybe that is one of the reasons why the big players like Märklin and Roco skipped it.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 02 December 2021 23:38:25(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,375
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thank you.

That is all very interesting.
Here is a link to the remaining but non-working example of the BR 19 still in Dresden.

Dresden Museum ex Saxon 19 class

Well Märklin may not have modelled a Saxony locomotive, but neither did they model an Alsace-Lorraine Railway locomotive and many others.
It is a moot question, with no answers.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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H0V211
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 03 December 2021 00:24:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,707
Location: DE-NW
Not Saxon: I saw the former DR 12 010 in a museum earlier this year. An impressive 2-8-4 steamer.

From Wikipedia: They were the largest steam locomotives ever built in Austria and the most powerful express locomotives with the longest connecting rods that existed in Europe at that time. To date, they have the longest connecting rods in the world.

I would be tempted to get a current model of that class.

So yes, there are many interesting prototypes still waiting for modern models.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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V211Jay
Offline rmsailor  
#11 Posted : 03 December 2021 09:29:01(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Not Saxon: I saw the former DR 12 010 in a museum earlier this year. An impressive 2-8-4 steamer.

From Wikipedia: They were the largest steam locomotives ever built in Austria and the most powerful express locomotives with the longest connecting rods that existed in Europe at that time. To date, they have the longest connecting rods in the world.

I would be tempted to get a current model of that class.

So yes, there are many interesting prototypes still waiting for modern models.


Model made by the old Liliput of Austria Company.

Bob M.
Offline V211  
#12 Posted : 03 December 2021 09:57:19(UTC)
V211

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: New York, New York
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Not Saxon: I saw the former DR 12 010 in a museum earlier this year. An impressive 2-8-4 steamer.

From Wikipedia: They were the largest steam locomotives ever built in Austria and the most powerful express locomotives with the longest connecting rods that existed in Europe at that time. To date, they have the longest connecting rods in the world.

I would be tempted to get a current model of that class.

So yes, there are many interesting prototypes still waiting for modern models.


Yeah that seems like another really important train. I might be tempted by that also tbh. But OBB seems to have gotten a lot of their trains modeled(or at least their cars). What seemed odd was that the whole railway seemed like it was ignored when it was after Prussia and Bavaria the biggest state railway. But yeah everyone's right a lot of great early era trains aren't modeled and maybe that's just how it happened to work out. Another one is E61 for Baden, I really love the state railways early electric trains.

Anyhow your answer from before makes sense with not many Saxon trains making it too the DB. Many of the models I see of state railway trains are in DB livery. Before I wasn't looking at them as different but if their priority was making DB trains that'd explain why no former Saxon ones got made.




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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 03 December 2021 11:01:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,707
Location: DE-NW
It seems era III DB is the main focus of Märklin, but some Insider models are era II DR or era IV DB.
I think Trix and Fleischmann had a stronger focus on era II DR.

It seems unique models appeal to Märklin fans, so we saw streamlined BR 05 and will now see a streamlined BR 06.

Saxonian bread-and-butter locos that are just workhorses that never made it to the DB rooster don't have much appeal.

Märklin sold million copies of their #3000 in DB livery - a loco that never made it to the DB rooster. I cannot explain why this worked so well.

But a BR 19.0 in fictitious DB livery may not become a top-seller, not even with an steel-blue edition later on.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline KTrain  
#14 Posted : 25 September 2022 13:44:16(UTC)
KTrain

United States   
Joined: 25/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: New Jersey, Landing
Hello Everyone,

I am new to this Forum but have been collecting for 25 years. I recently got my hands on a Trix Fine Art 42222 Royal Saxon rail engine AC. I am struggling to find matching passenger wagons from Saxony. Trying to stay authentic. I thought Piko would be my best bet but no luck thus far. I have plenty of DRG wagon sets but would really like to find something Saxon. If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Thanks
-Kevin
Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 26 September 2022 01:06:41(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,375
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: KTrain Go to Quoted Post
Hello Everyone,
.. I am struggling to find matching passenger wagons from Saxony. Trying to stay authentic. ..

Thanks
-Kevin

Hello Kevin,
To get you started why not go for a couple of goods wagons.
Engines were occasionally used on trains other than passenger due to circumstances .....

Both Trix and Märklin have made era I sets (usually 3 to 5 wagons) which contain a Saxon wagon along with the other pre-DRG company wagons.
I don't know specific examples but a search should find them.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#16 Posted : 29 September 2022 17:22:54(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: New York City
Hallo Dreileiters,
Hi Kevin,
You may also try to locate coaches from
Sachsen Modellbahn company or Kleinbahn in Austria!
Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
Offline KTrain  
#17 Posted : 29 September 2022 18:49:09(UTC)
KTrain

United States   
Joined: 25/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: New Jersey, Landing
Thank you both for the advice, I just found Piko 53011. Maybe I will get a chance to grab it on ebay. I really wish Marklin would expand the German regional offering. I find it strange that they neglect regions, yet make Dutch Belgian and French trains. I love my SNCF 241 but would really like to see an emphasis on wider German & Austrian range of offerings. I have a fascination with the Austrian Class 306, made to pull the Austrian emperors royal coaches. Im surprised Marklin or Roco have not made a set as of yet.
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 30 September 2022 08:28:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,707
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: KTrain Go to Quoted Post
I find it strange that they neglect regions, yet make Dutch Belgian and French trains.
For 40 years there was an iron curtain through Germany and demand for three-rail products is low in some German regions.
They make "more of the same" for regions where they achieved good sales, leaving other regions for the competition.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#19 Posted : 30 September 2022 17:39:34(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: New York City
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KTrain Go to Quoted Post
I find it strange that they neglect regions, yet make Dutch Belgian and French trains.
For 40 years there was an iron curtain through Germany and demand for three-rail products is low in some German regions.
They make "more of the same" for regions where they achieved good sales, leaving other regions for the competition.


H0 is absolutely correct, former DDR [ East Germany] that was PIKO ( Saxony ) H0 but TT 1:120 was dominant!
Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
Offline kimballthurlow  
#20 Posted : 04 October 2022 09:42:56(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,375
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: KTrain Go to Quoted Post
Thank you both for the advice, I just found Piko 53011. Maybe I will get a chance to grab it on ebay.....


Hi Kevin,

I have a German book published in 1986 which contains details of passenger cars.
It contains details of the Piko 53011 Saxony coach in which you are interested.

The book also has plans and a photo of an express car with a through corridor made in 1907 for the Königlich Sächsischen Staatseisenbahn (Kingdom of Saxony State Railway).
This is almost the same shape and size as cars made by Märklin to represent the Bavarian Railway system.
The following numbers (with link) will give you the idea:
41353
41358
41359
41369
41379
Whether the cars were a similar colour on the KSS is a good question.

KImball

Edited by user 08 October 2022 00:01:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#21 Posted : 06 October 2022 00:43:35(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 947
Location: ,
I'd love to see Marklin make the XVIIIH and the XX HV

UserPostedImage

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Offline Marklineisenbahn  
#22 Posted : 07 October 2022 02:11:07(UTC)
Marklineisenbahn

United States   
Joined: 14/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: New York City
Originally Posted by: I_love_Marklin_37538 Go to Quoted Post
I'd love to see Marklin make the XVIIIH and the XX HV

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage



Hallo Dreileiters,
Good evening I_love_Marklin_37538 ,
Märklin/Trix released Saxon Class XVIII few yers back as a special hand made brass model. Take a look at my post above - Superb model & I added Sound !
Regards,
Märklineisenbahn
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