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Offline GenDemo  
#1 Posted : 08 October 2021 13:33:09(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Evening All

I am looking to you for help - I have a 6021 Digital Controller Unit with a transformer (6002? I think).
I want to get my brother a digital controller and transformer, but I don't know what these different units are - 6021, connect-6021, 6017, 6036 80f, 6032 programmer ... and others.
The locos we have are of the first era digital - able to be controlled by the 6021 with the 4 (5) functions (F0-F4). Hence I am thinking I just want to get the same as I have, a 6021 + transformer. But I see some other things, like the model numbers I noted above, but I have no idea what they are and what they are. Could anybody shed some light in terms of what these controllers are? is some preferable over others? I will probably be buying this second hand off e-bay as I suspect the 6021 is no longer being made.

From what I have been able to read online, if I get say, a 6021, I dont need to worry about controlling the newer locomotive as they are all backwards compatible. I might not have all the functions, but the basic F0-F4 will be there.

Appologies if this is really poorly worded - I don't know these details well! I am trying to read up, but find it confusing about what the different digital generations are etc.

I look forward to your enlightenment.

Best Regards
~GD
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 08 October 2021 16:07:08(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,036
Location: Michigan, Troy
The 6021 "connect" is used to connect a 6021 to a CS 2 or a CS3, or CS3+. Yes, a 6021 limits the number of functions accessable on newer MFX decoder loco's to 5.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 08 October 2021 16:21:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,294
Location: DE-NW
The CU 6021 is a digital control unit with a speed knob.
The Control 80f 6036 is a speed knob without a brain that can be used with a CU 6021.
The Connect-6021 connects a CU 6021 to a modern Central Station - only useful with a CU 6021 and a Central Station.

The CU 6021 allows you to use up to 17 functions with modern mfx decoders in MM mode. Some functions will be out of reach.

The MS2 is the current entry-level controller. The MS2 supports modern digital features, but the CU 6021 has a very efficient user interface and some folks prefer it over the MS2.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 08 October 2021 17:47:44(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,036
Location: Michigan, Troy
Interface? The 6021 has only alpha-numeric buttons. No screen, no icons. I never even used more than the f0 through f4 on mine. It stores 80 adresses.
Offline Purellum  
#5 Posted : 08 October 2021 19:50:30(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,366
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Interface? The 6021 has only alpha-numeric buttons. No screen, no icons. I never even used more than the f0 through f4 on mine. It stores 80 adresses.


I think you should learn the definition of the word "interface" before you go any further......... LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 08 October 2021 20:08:33(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,679
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Interface? The 6021 has only alpha-numeric buttons. No screen, no icons. I never even used more than the f0 through f4 on mine. It stores 80 adresses.


It's still an interface, albeit a minimal one to make for a simple "user experience" in modern-speak. BigGrin

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 08 October 2021 23:39:01(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,017
Location: Scotland
Why not get a catalogue and the Marklin digital book which will give you the current controllers etc and explains what they do. MS2 is a good start with a CS3 coming later if required. I would buy new and get a warranty from a Marklin dealer.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 09 October 2021 01:01:10(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,036
Location: Michigan, Troy
No need to go futher Per. Inter means from one to another. Intra means within. Intra-face is within one face. Inter-face is within more. Inside a face as well. I guess I stand corrected.
Under the face and buttons are the processors.
Offline mvd71  
#9 Posted : 09 October 2021 02:05:18(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,435
Location: Auckland,
The 6021 and a transformer the same as you currently have will work perfectly fine, and should be able to be sourced at a reasonable price.

6021 pros -easy to use
- reliable
-fast operation
-readily available
-you have experience with this type
-meets the requirements you have outlined
-capable of having functionality expanded through use of other digital components of the same era

6021 cons -not the latest technology
-no mfx functionality
-decoder functionality limited to 17 functions through use of sequential addresses

There are things that the newer controllers can do that you won’t have off the shelf with the 6021 on it’s own. But from what you have described as your needs, I think it would be perfect.
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Offline phils2um  
#10 Posted : 09 October 2021 07:31:53(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Personally, I would stay away from a 6021. It is VERY outdated. The last one was manufactured roughly 20 years ago. Any unit you buy will be of questionable provenance.
Even though you are familiar with the 6021, having one yourself, you're much better off recommending or purchasing a more modern controller. The new ones are backward compatible. The 6021 is not forward compatible (it cannot access all the functions available in the current decoders).
Phil S.
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Offline GenDemo  
#11 Posted : 09 October 2021 11:54:08(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I would stay away from a 6021. It is VERY outdated. The last one was manufactured roughly 20 years ago. Any unit you buy will be of questionable provenance.
Even though you are familiar with the 6021, having one yourself, you're much better off recommending or purchasing a more modern controller. The new ones are backward compatible. The 6021 is not forward compatible (it cannot access all the functions available in the current decoders).


Thnx. I appreciate that oppinion. I’ll have to see what it costs - Marklin stuff being as expensive as it is. But we do appreciate the quality of it!

I just want to correct you (AFAIK) the 6021 can still control the new locos, just bot the extended functions. It is there for forwards compatible.

Thnx again.
Offline GenDemo  
#12 Posted : 09 October 2021 11:55:48(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
The 6021 and a transformer the same as you currently have will work perfectly fine, and should be able to be sourced at a reasonable price.

6021 pros -easy to use
6021 cons -not the latest technology

There are things that the newer controllers can do that you won’t have off the shelf with the 6021 on it’s own. But from what you have described as your needs, I think it would be perfect.


Thank you.
Offline GenDemo  
#13 Posted : 09 October 2021 11:57:30(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The CU 6021 is a digital control unit with a speed knob.
The Control 80f 6036 is a speed knob without a brain that can be used with a CU 6021.
The Connect-6021 connects a CU 6021 to a modern Central Station - only useful with a CU 6021 and a Central Station.

The CU 6021 allows you to use up to 17 functions with modern mfx decoders in MM mode. Some functions will be out of reach.

The MS2 is the current entry-level controller. The MS2 supports modern digital features, but the CU 6021 has a very efficient user interface and some folks prefer it over the MS2.


Thank you, that is a very good explanation.
Offline GenDemo  
#14 Posted : 09 October 2021 12:00:51(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
So the. My next question - does the MS2 require a transformer?

Also, do you need something else? I see on the Marklin website it says that you need a 606113/6 ? But I cant see on their website what it is for nor how you connect it up?
Offline GenDemo  
#15 Posted : 09 October 2021 12:55:49(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Originally Posted by: GenDemo Go to Quoted Post
So the. My next question - does the MS2 require a transformer?

Also, do you need something else? I see on the Marklin website it says that you need a 606113/6 ? But I cant see on their website what it is for nor how you connect it up?


Nevermind, I read up in the documentation.
Thnx :)


I appreciate the help so far!!
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 09 October 2021 14:18:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,294
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: GenDemo Go to Quoted Post
I just want to correct you (AFAIK) the 6021 can still control the new locos, just bot the extended functions. It is there for forwards compatible.
No, the locos are backwards compatible.
The CU 6021 does not support NMRA DCC or mfx which new decoders use to support all the new features, but the new decoders still support the old MM protocol of the CU 6021.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PJMärklin  
#17 Posted : 09 October 2021 14:50:15(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,984
Location: Hobart, Australia
Hi Phil, too … um ?Smile

Thanks for your helpful positive contribution.OhMyGod

On this great users group there is a very large number who find much joy in running their Märklin in analogue.
There is also a sizeable group who continue to happily run their digital Märklin reliably by the 6021 and associated equipment.

Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I would stay away from a 6021. It is VERY outdated. The last one was manufactured roughly 20 years ago.


(And Märklin has been produced since 162 years agoLaugh .)

To wit, this sizeable group continue to gain much enjoyment from their digital Märklin needing no more than the 6021, its four functions and extended with associated equipment to their wants.
They have trouble-free running of their digital layouts yet see not a day go by on this wonderful users - group forum without a post of help needed for this or that problem with the current “state-of-the-art” digital controllers.

Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Any unit you buy will be of questionable provenance.

Indeed all of this sizeable group would find this remark to be curious.Confused
Comments elsewhere on this forum note that the 6021 system is remarkably robust with established longevity and readily able to be repaired if that is ever necessary.
I have a number of 6021 units as “spares for the future” for my layout but have not needed them in 26 years.

Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
The 6021 is not forward compatible

How on earth can anything in life be assuredly “forward compatible”.
No-one knows what is “round the corner” but thankfully all Märklin locomotives remain controllable by the 6021, albeit with four (or more by digital trickery) functions.

I respect the particular view that all other forum members have in their enthusiasm to control their own Märklin, be it by analogue, 6021 or any of the subsequent controllers up to the current CS3+

To each his own in our Märklin hobby !
And above all, have fun with your Märklin, whichever way you control them.

Regards,

PJBigGrin


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Offline mvd71  
#18 Posted : 09 October 2021 20:40:02(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,435
Location: Auckland,
I didn’t go into pros and cons of the newer controllers, and for the record I have a CS3+, CS2, and I own multiple 6021 units. But having owned most variants of Märklin’s digital controllers, I would say the 6021 (and associated components) is one of the most reliable units they have made, and Märklin’s supporting documents for it were the best they ever produced.

The MS2 is a close second in that it has good functionality at a reasonable price, and many users are very happy with this unit. What made the MS2 such a good controller in my mind, was the ability to address m83/84 decoders to control turnouts etc… one of these units would represent good value for money and give the mfx ability.
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 10 October 2021 16:48:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,294
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I would stay away from a 6021. It is VERY outdated. The last one was manufactured roughly 20 years ago.
The Intellibox was made similar to the CU 6021.
The new Intellibox II has more capabilities, more buttons, and requires more key presses to achieve things, but is still in production. Still in production, similar spirit, supports MM, SX, and NMRA DCC. I'm not sure if the mfx extension is available yet.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline siroljuk  
#20 Posted : 10 October 2021 17:18:22(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 375
Hello

Märklin first generation "digital" devices are simple devices and therefore very reliable. reason for reliably is that there have limited amount of flexible functions and those functions have tested properly by Märklin.(manufacturer)
they don't need many updating's as these new CS1 ( few) CS2 and Ms 1-2-3 (much more updates) and CS3/+ which has been updated too many times.

The key word is testing, nowadays there are only few companies which make digital (complex) devices are willing to test properly their units, even modern cars are included in this poor category. Crying Crying Crying

I have all Märklins newest devices and I have studied all possible functions and I'm sorry to say that they would not be ready for selling Huh Huh Yet.

Manufacturers are crying for money and not willing to make they products ready before marketing them.

Sorry to say this but so it is IMHO.

Anyway Be happy and keep safe
Jukka
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Offline mike c  
#21 Posted : 10 October 2021 21:49:30(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,232
Location: Montreal, QC
If I have a 6021 with sticky buttons, instead of opening it up and trying to solve the problem, can i just connect a 6036 and use that the input the locomotive address and control instructions?

Mike C
Offline mike c  
#22 Posted : 10 October 2021 21:51:35(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,232
Location: Montreal, QC
In reply to the original post, why don't you take a look at the Central Station or ECOS for yourself. You might then decide to adopt the new system and open yourself up to MfX and DCC and then pass on your 6002 and 6021 to your brother, so that he can familiarize himself with digital operation.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#23 Posted : 11 October 2021 01:18:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,068
Location: New Zealand
Decisions, Decisions.......

A picture of my controllers, not including MS1 and MS2's

CS_2.jpg

At top you have the CS3, CS2 and three CS1's. The black unit on the right is an early ESU Ecos and at the bottom we have an early 650 Intellibox 1, Intellibox 2, a 6021, and a good old analog controller.

I still use most of them, although not so much the CS1's.

If you are happy with the older technology I don't see why you can't stick with a 6021, the extra keyboards, Control 80f units, etc are all much cheaper now than new.
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H0
Offline mvd71  
#24 Posted : 11 October 2021 09:39:47(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,435
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Decisions, Decisions.......

A picture of my controllers, not including MS1 and MS2's

CS_2.jpg

At top you have the CS3, CS2 and three CS1's. The black unit on the right is an early ESU Ecos and at the bottom we have an early 650 Intellibox 1, Intellibox 2, a 6021, and a good old analog controller.

I still use most of them, although not so much the CS1's.

If you are happy with the older technology I don't see why you can't stick with a 6021, the extra keyboards, Control 80f units, etc are all much cheaper now than new.


What about the 6020? Delta? Delta4f? Call yourself a Märklin fan?? LOL LOL LOL
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#25 Posted : 11 October 2021 12:01:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,068
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
What about the 6020? Delta? Delta4f? Call yourself a Märklin fan?? LOL LOL LOL


I sold that! Blushing

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