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Offline Johnvr  
#1 Posted : 08 September 2021 10:27:01(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hello all,

A friend of mine is constructing a large layout.
He is building the layout around the room and the layout will have 3 x Stations with passing tracks.
Signals will be placed at each of the passing tracks.
Circuit tracks are being used to trigger the signals to stop and go.
A representation of the layout is as per the attached picture.

How many trains can he run on this layout without one train catching up with the train in front ?
What is the scheduling sequence for operating these trains without collision ?
Where is the best place to insert the circuit tracks around the station area ?
We are not using 'occupancy blocks' , but do you think that 'occupancy blocks' would improve the safety of operations ?

He is operating using Central Station 2, with Marklin s88 feedback.

Layout1.jpg

RegardsBigGrin
John
Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 08 September 2021 10:57:51(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 956
Location: Michigan, Troy
John, depends on the layout dimensions, train lengths, speeds,
Temperature of room, Motors, etc. Heat is speed.
I am poor in algebra, but the CS3 can stage events with delays.
One S88 has 6 inputs. It shows 6 signals. Unless he has a total of 12 circuit tracks, contact tracks, blocks, or reed switches, one should suffice.
Speeds of the trains can be set slower as well. It may be possible to run 3 at once. One can wait in the stations until another passes, but why not add two more turnouts and a through track?
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 08 September 2021 11:03:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
A simple approach: five trains, never more than one signal showing green. Only one train running at any time.

With fewer trains there would be an option to have two (or more) trains running at the same time.

With two more signals in each reversing loop, there would be more options.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 08 September 2021 14:51:21(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,280
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

With two more signals in each reversing loop, there would be more options.


I agree with Tom, a signal on each end loop (even a virtual signal) with the end loops being inside tunnels to give the feeling of 'exit stage left/right, enter stage left/right, would help.

But I think you need more signals, one on the main line at the entry to each station so the main line sections also become signaled blocks will allow more trains to run at a time. I would also be tempted to double track between two stations so trains can run both directions simultaneously between those two stations, otherwise I think you will find that you will only ever have one train running at any one time as a block becomes clear in front of it.

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Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 08 September 2021 15:54:57(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,731
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Or a double track all around the layout with 3 tracks in each station, this would give you a heap of options where as you could also incorporate a shunting yard, there is always the risk you could get bored and you may change the configuration at a later stage., so why not do it now.
A shuttle service between station 1 and 3 is also possible

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Hannes Porsche  
#6 Posted : 08 September 2021 23:20:06(UTC)
Hannes Porsche

South Africa   
Joined: 08/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Hi John. Nice plan and layout. !!!!!!!

To trigger more comments, not so simple --- I say only FOUR trains on the above layout.

HANNES
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 08 September 2021 23:31:36(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,862
With absolute certainty: 1 train. (So long as the train is shorter than the turning loops.)
Probably 4.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 09 September 2021 02:56:22(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,422
Location: Auckland,
Five
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Offline Johnvr  
#9 Posted : 11 September 2021 10:13:35(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all,

Thanks to everyone who has commented.
I am adding some pictures from the layout build to give you an idea on what we are doing.

The length of the layout from one reverse loop to the other reverse loop is about 100 metres long.
The layout winds around the attic of the house, through twists and turns, over bridges and around corners.
The station platforms as depicted in the diagram will be long enough for train lengths of 3.5 metres each.
We are building a staging yard for 8 trains of 3.5 metres each (the staging yard in the picture has been modified since the picture was taken)

There is a separate line for Bigboy, because Bigboy hauls about 80 wagons and the train length is about 30 metres long, and there are no crossings between Bigboy line and other mainline, for obvious reasons !

I am planning on running 4 trains easily on the mainline, with 8 trains rotating in the staging yard.
Bigboy will run on his own line.

Regards
John

IMG_2341 - Copy.JPG

IMG_2344 - Copy.JPG

IMG_2340 - Copy.JPG

IMG_2339 - Copy.JPG

IMG_2347 - Copy.JPG

IMG_2348 - Copy.JPG
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Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 11 September 2021 11:53:14(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 956
Location: Michigan, Troy
Oh, it's large! Shouldn't be a problem keeping trains safely distanced with speeds closely sinked and signal blocks. I hope that attic is air conditioned though.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#11 Posted : 11 September 2021 17:05:05(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,171
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
There is a separate line for Bigboy, because Bigboy hauls about 80 wagons and the train length is about 30 metres long, ...


US style 4-axle plastic body box cars (40 ft model):
15.5 cm x 80 = 12.4 m

US style 4-axle tin plate box cars (50 ft model):
18.5 cm x 80 = 14.8 m

I wonder: How long are the Big Boy and the trailing caboose that the train reaches 30 m in length?

RollEyes

Edited by user 12 September 2021 00:08:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline michelvr  
#12 Posted : 11 September 2021 18:15:43(UTC)
michelvr


Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,219
Hello John,

Now that’s a big North America themed layout! Drool

When it comes to running trains, the more on the tracks the more realistic it will be! At my friend’s Roger layout we usually run five trains and his layout is only a quarter of the length that I see in your pictures. Just like the real trains the more train that move good the more money the railroad makes. It’s also more fun when you have a busy layout!

Very impressive and once the long trains runs you’ll need this playing on the stereo!

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Offline Johnvr  
#13 Posted : 12 September 2021 13:37:16(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
There is a separate line for Bigboy, because Bigboy hauls about 80 wagons and the train length is about 30 metres long, ...


US style 4-axle plastic body box cars (40 ft model):
15.5 cm x 80 = 12.4 m

US style 4-axle tin plate box cars (50 ft model):
18.5 cm x 80 = 14.8 m

I wonder: How long are the Big Boy and the trailing caboose that the train reaches 30 m in length?

RollEyes


Hello AK

I think that you have a good point !
I got the figures wrong - wishful thinking Blink
I shall go there on Monday of this week, and I shall measure the length of the train as it is this week.
Here is a quick video with 60 wagons .. how long do you think that this train is ?

Bigboy train

Regards
John

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Offline Johnvr  
#14 Posted : 12 September 2021 13:39:04(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
And another link to a video :

Bigboy train ver 2

Regards
John
Offline DaleSchultz  
#15 Posted : 12 September 2021 17:57:15(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,862
probably 30 ft instead of 30m
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Jay  
#16 Posted : 12 September 2021 19:56:32(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 288
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
And another link to a video :

Bigboy train ver 2

Regards
John

Hi John, the links don't seem to work

Offline Purellum  
#17 Posted : 12 September 2021 22:20:30(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
The links don't seem to work


Same problem here.......... Blink

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Johnvr  
#18 Posted : 13 September 2021 14:57:21(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,235
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
New video link :

Bigboy long train

Regards
John
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Offline dickinsonj  
#19 Posted : 15 September 2021 02:03:18(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,444
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
New video link


Cool video John - thanks. Is that your 80 car consist you mentioned?

I have not run all of my US freight wagons in one train in a while, but my latest count is 81, including three cabooses. I guess that means I could muster 79 cars including one caboose. The last long US train I ran was about 60 cars long and my Big Boy ran just as it does without any consist at all. ThumpUp

I also intended to comment on your layout pictures John, but had not gotten around to it. I hope to be where you are in about three years time as I start my ultimate layout and I really like what you have done. I had not thought about a line just for my Big Boys, but that is an excellent idea.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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