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Offline steamfriend  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2006 00:04:38(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi friends,

Here I am again with another question that really puzzles me: the problem of the third rail [:o)] when constructing a service pit between the rails. The same for the ash collectors...

I have tried to fully make them in C-rails, and, apart from the colors, that at present are quite rude, they are ok with me. But what with the third rail ? I used a banjo string (you know, the instrument !) of diameter 0,25mm. It works !! I drilled two holes close to the first puko that remains, and 'sutured' the wire across. Due to its strenght, it remains in place. See pics : with flashlight almost invisible, but with daily light you can still see the thin wire. I think it is better than the Faller puko's that they deliver with their service pits. But I was wondering if some of you might have other solutions ? I want an open pit, as is the case in the locdepots, so grids won't do... Any other ideas ?

UserPostedImage

Here exactly the same, but wiht flashlight illumination :

UserPostedImage

Thanks,

Bob
Offline McLae  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2006 00:41:14(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
That look great!

Now just cover everyihing with 'ash' and what a good look you will have!biggrin
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline john black  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2006 00:53:09(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Your service pit looks just nice, Bob - congratulations [:p] !!!
What a great idea of yours. The only thing "missing" is more dirt, coal dust and grease ... Smile

Thanks for the pictures,
John
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline Rowan  
#4 Posted : 25 April 2006 01:20:56(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Giday, really cool service pit mate.Very clever the banjo string and looks good too.As John said,needs some filth.How did you cut the guts of the C Track out please,and would love too see a piccy when it's finished on the layout.Keep up the good work.
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#5 Posted : 25 April 2006 03:37:16(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Great idea, Bob.

I was just about to think to solve that problem as well. I have bought a Walthers ash pit and I also have intended inspection pits for my engine servicing area. Now I have the solution !

Many thanks for sharing.

Pierre.
Offline pat  
#6 Posted : 25 April 2006 04:32:13(UTC)
pat


Joined: 06/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 913
Location: The Central Coast
Thanks for the pictures Bob,very nice work
worse things happen at sea
Offline laalves  
#7 Posted : 25 April 2006 06:04:57(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Great, great idea.... I think this is something to copy...[}:)]

Luis
Offline HueyCE  
#8 Posted : 25 April 2006 06:39:07(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Excellent solution. I have been pondering how accomplish the same thing. In order to make the string disappear, have you tried blackening it so it doesn't show up against the pit walls?
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline stephenbb  
#9 Posted : 25 April 2006 16:12:16(UTC)
stephenbb


Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,836
Location: Trumbull, CT
Very nice job indeed!.. You can add a new product to the Marklin line. I'm sure you applied for a design patent?
Stephen(USA)
ETE,NMRA,MEA
Offline steamfriend  
#10 Posted : 25 April 2006 23:42:45(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Thanks all for your reactions and comments. Makes me feel I am on a good track wink. Now, a few reflections on your individual questions :

I am setting up a small batch production for my depot. You may have noticed here and there in this forum of these plans (see turntable). I plan a 20 stand round house, but the job appears a little too big to do it for each rail. In reality, they were present all over the rail lenght [:(]. I will reflect on this.

As to the the blackening, Ira, I have considered it, but I still have no real good solution to that. In half the cases, the blackening does not work fine. I am just wondering how Marklin does such a nice job with their M-rails and puko's... Any good advice ? Btw, the string you see in the pic is from an old banjo, with the steel almost black from age. Just bought new strings in a music shop, and, oh boy, what a shiny thing !! Definite good advice needed for that one !

As to the dirt, I am somewhat disappointed too. I tried to give it some dirt, but apparently not enough biggrin. I agree too. One comment however, the two pics are the same unit (just only built one so far). The second pic is not realistic, due to the excessive light from the flashlight. Anyway, is there someone who can give me advise for oil traces ? They should look a bit shiny, with eventual a trace of cupper.

The rails were cut with the small table dicing saw from Proxxon (FSK/E) that I use for cutting all my C-rails to fit loose ends. The dicing saw allows to regulate the height of the saw sticking out of the table. What you do is the following: use the guide to position the rail over the saw where you want to cut. I place the rail upside down. Then power the unit and gently start levitating the saw till it starts cutting. Continue until about 4 mm of the spinning saw becomes visible. Then I slide the rail along the guide to proceed with the requested lenght.
In what I have shown, I stopped at both ends of the rails. This makes the unit solid for handling. For the ash pits, I have cut two rails in one long go. The ash pit needs to have about two loc lengths. I did not make pics yet , but promise to give them later.

So far my story. To be continued...

Yours,

Bob
Offline ulf999  
#11 Posted : 26 April 2006 11:41:02(UTC)
ulf999


Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,908
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Excellent. This forum is just sooo great!
Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#12 Posted : 26 April 2006 16:32:41(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Thanks for all this valuable information.

For oil, try a mix of Humbrol #85 with some drops of #55.

Pierre.
Offline steventrain  
#13 Posted : 26 April 2006 16:37:40(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Excellent job.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline SRB  
#14 Posted : 26 April 2006 22:54:20(UTC)
SRB


Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: ,
Looks absolutly great and fine tooling too. I will make one to inside my E-lok shed.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by stephenbb
<br />Very nice job indeed!.. You can add a new product to the Marklin line. I'm sure you applied for a design patent?


I agree[:p]
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
Offline Rowan  
#15 Posted : 01 May 2006 18:34:26(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
steamfriend,thanks!
....so far story ! To be continued.....

This is good, and I wait ; for continued................
Offline steamfriend  
#16 Posted : 13 May 2006 18:32:51(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi all ! Smile

Took me some time to make some progress... Not finished yet , but thought I might give you some update on the progress :

These pics are on the actual ashpit itself and the two rails for service. The ashes get collected in the central pit, and are taken out by a crane when filled. The pits should be filled with water, to immediately damp the hot cinders.

I give a pic of the bottom view (without the pit) to give an idea of the mechanical construction. Plasticcard an recuperation parts are used here. Made the stairs myself from 2mm thick plastic.

UserPostedImage

view on the remains of the original C-tracks...

UserPostedImage

One stadium further : with pit in plasticcard.

UserPostedImage


And the actual stadium. I need to cover the small 'metal' bridges with some gridded plates, that will also take the middle rail. Not completely sure how to tackle this, but I'm close.

UserPostedImage


Hope to be able to report soon on how I succeeded in doing that [:p]. Pray for me wink

Cheers,

Bob
Offline Rowan  
#17 Posted : 13 May 2006 21:52:14(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
AB FAB mate.Looks just so good!
Offline laalves  
#18 Posted : 14 May 2006 01:44:50(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Congrats, steamfriend it is fabulous! I will definitely copy this, the ultimate form of flattery biggrin biggrin biggrin

Luis
Offline rugauger  
#19 Posted : 14 May 2006 01:51:32(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
All,

Has anyone ever considered a solution that involves some sort of "sliding stud"?

The idea being that you could have a magnet that attaches itself to the current pickup on the loco, and as the loco moves across the pit, it would drag this "thing" along with it. And the "thing" is fed with power via a very thin wire which could be more easily concealed.

Having said that, the solution presented here is very good, and I'm sure it will work, especially if the installation is set back a bit from the front of the layout - well done!
Richard
Offline HueyCE  
#20 Posted : 14 May 2006 09:15:29(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
I'm duly impressed. Like Luis I believe I will copy your idea when I get that far with my layout.
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline SRB  
#21 Posted : 15 May 2006 13:57:50(UTC)
SRB


Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: ,
It looks really good. Crossing fingers for the next pocess in your project.
Stig
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#22 Posted : 17 May 2006 20:30:58(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Really amazing !

Congratulations Bob. It is a very high quality job.

Pierre.
Offline Steven86  
#23 Posted : 17 May 2006 23:55:52(UTC)
Steven86


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 291
Location: ,
Marvellous job. Congrats!
Offline Rowan  
#24 Posted : 18 May 2006 00:50:01(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Giday Bob, how did you cut the track? It is cetainly a nice sharp cut.
Offline steamfriend  
#25 Posted : 19 May 2006 12:38:21(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi Rowan,

I have explained in an earlier answer how the cuts are made (25/4/06). I copy it here again :

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:The rails were cut with the small table dicing saw from Proxxon (FSK/E) that I use for cutting all my C-rails to fit loose ends. The dicing saw allows to regulate the height of the saw sticking out of the table. What you do is the following: use the guide to position the rail over the saw where you want to cut. I place the rail upside down. Then power the unit and gently start levitating the saw till it starts cutting. Continue until about 4 mm of the spinning saw becomes visible. Then I slide the rail along the guide to proceed with the requested lenght.
In what I have shown, I stopped at both ends of the rails. This makes the unit solid for handling. For the ash pits, I have cut two rails in one long go. The ash pit needs to have about two loc lengths. I did not make pics yet , but promise to give them later.


For the dicing saw, go to http://www.proxxon.com/, go to any region, select your language, select MICROMOT tools, then go for the table-top tools, and search for the table top dicing saw FSK/E. Marvellous machine ! It costs about the price of a new loco, but personally I think the investmest is worth it ! I only use C-tracks of the longest type. When I have to fit loose ends, I just cut the track with the saw, use some instant glue and some soldering to restore the connection at the bottom. Saved many Euros or Dollars in buying the expensive short tracks to make your loose end fit !biggrinbiggrin.

Hope it helps ! Only thing : you have to carefully watch your fingers[}:)]

Best wishes,

Bob

PS: I finished my job on the ashpits and just need a few moments to make my final report for you all (pics and the like). Stay tuned[:p]
Offline steamfriend  
#26 Posted : 20 May 2006 23:56:21(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi all !

This is my last picture set for the time being. I will stop working on the pits in favour of other jobs on my layout... They need now to be built-in, and be furher finished with ashes, 'water', coal and coal/grease dust. Guess this will take me several months, since it goes together with all the rest. (in the mean time, I will need to continue on my turnable (see other thread), but am still awaiting the fine scale profiles.

So here are my final pics :

finished with third rail ! Use guitar wire and pieces of metal grid plates (Weinert) for the 'bridges'

UserPostedImage


A look into the big ashpit : need to fill it with ashes, and water

UserPostedImage

So much nicer with a loc ready to throw its ashes...

UserPostedImage


Final pic : a close up top view....

UserPostedImage


Thanks for all the comments, friends. I am glad you like it !


Best wishes,


Bob
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by steamfriend
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#27 Posted : 21 May 2006 23:53:56(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Fantastic ! You should get a degree in scratchbuilding !

Pierre.
Offline HueyCE  
#28 Posted : 22 May 2006 04:14:51(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Excellent work. I will certainly copy you when I am to that point on my layout, if you don't mind.
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline john black  
#29 Posted : 22 May 2006 10:07:51(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Wow ... a true masterpiece, looks so realistic - congratulations, Bob [:p][:p][:p]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline PierreGILLARD  
#30 Posted : 22 May 2006 17:26:47(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello Bob,

I am about to start the construction of my Walthers roundhouses which are equipped with inspection pits. So I am really interested in using your technique for the third rail over those pits.

Can you tell me the exact reference of the banjo string that you used especially the material ?

Thanks.

Pierre.
Offline rugauger  
#31 Posted : 23 May 2006 11:52:42(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PierreGILLARD
<br />...Can you tell me the exact reference of the banjo string that you used especially the material?
...
Stay clear of the nylon ones; I had real trouble making it work with those.
Richard
Offline steamfriend  
#32 Posted : 23 May 2006 23:58:30(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Thanks all for the nice compliments Cool !

Code:
I am about to start the construction of my Walthers roundhouses which are equipped with inspection pits. So I am really interested in using your technique for the third rail over those pits.
Can you tell me the exact reference of the banjo string that you used especially the material ?


Pierre, the strings I used are the following :
D'Addario Guitar strings, PL010. Acoustic of electric plain steel
(indeed, no nylon rugaurer [}:)]). Diameter is 0.25 mm for E B and G strings. Made in USA (!) (J. D'Addario and Company, PO Box 290, Farmingdale, NY 11735. I just bought them at my local music shop.
I drill four 0,4 mm holes, two at each side of the middle rail, and 'suture' one end in place. I make a loop over the bar of the middle rail, making sure there is firm contact. You can really pull the string. The two turns I make like that seem OK. I do the same at the other end of the pit, four holes, and firmly pull the string through one hole, bend it, and 'suture' it at that side too. At this stage, make sure there is quite some tension ! It works fine [:p].

Before fitting the wires, I had them blackened in the kind of chemical blackening procedure (CARR'S Metal Black - toxic solution based on Selenium dioxide - never understood how it works).

Wish you good luck !

Bob

(Btw : I live in Leuven, since you were asking, Pierre - always welcome !)
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#33 Posted : 24 May 2006 01:52:16(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Thanks for the information, Bob.

I will certainly give you a visit one day because Leuven is a beautiful city ... and I am sure that as a Belgian you must have a good beer selection !

Pierre.
Offline MHauge  
#34 Posted : 28 May 2006 21:35:47(UTC)
MHauge


Joined: 19/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 393
Location: Aarhus C, DK
Your ash release pit is somewhat bigger that the one in Randers, Denmark.
I was there yesterday : https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=4850
Pictures of ash release pit:
http://server6.theimageh...N2085.JPG&album=9944
http://server6.theimageh...N2088.JPG&album=9944

Just a small hole between the tracks, and a lot of fun using the turntable when several steamers was waiting to get rid of their ash.

Michael
Märklin C-tracks, Mobile Station, Danish Ep 4
Offline steamfriend  
#35 Posted : 28 May 2006 23:55:37(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the interesting pictures. The system that you show was indeed used for smaller locdepots. This is what the well known Faller kit models. Since my layout is mainly a locdepot, with something like 30 machines, I thought it was justified to go for the bigger version. It was in use in many German depots, and should officially be convered with a huge lid. This lid was metal, and could be shifted on rails. Some depots had the lid removed permanently. I modeled that version, since it has more to show biggrinbiggrin
Thanks anyway for the pics - you cannot believe how difficult it was for me to find good pics of ashpits... in fact, I still have none, so my pits are partially guess, partial true...

Bob
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#36 Posted : 29 May 2006 01:40:36(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steamfriend
<br />(...) so my pits are partially guess, partial true...

Bob


... but totally believable !

Pierre.
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