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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 19 January 2021 11:23:50(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 891
I’m waiting for delivery of a Zürich S-Bahn Bi-Level Cab Control Car (Märklin 43575). The following can be read in the product description:

”When pushed by the locomotive (cab control car in the front), white triple headlights shine on the cab control car. When pulled by the locomotive (cab control car in the rear), dual red marker lights shine on the cab control car.”

I have two questions, in case anyone has an earlier model with similar features:

(1) How does this work?

(2) Can the pickup-shoe (which I guess is there) easily be used for car indoor lights?

As I already received 4 standard cars (Märklin 43574), I plan to use Current-Conducting Close Couplers (Märklin 7319) and Ground Springs (Märklin 72050), and install according to Dale’s great description for LED strips inside passenger cars.

Actually, I have a third question:

(3) If I have a function decoder for the light control (on/off) in the single car where I have the pickup-shoe: Do I need two-pole connections between the cars, or can I lead minus from the LED strips via a 1N4001 diode and a Ground Spring to the rails in each car? (See drawing below)

Smile

2A83A657-B7A7-4720-9542-FD5E87E23807.jpeg
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
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Offline mario54i  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2021 13:10:27(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 229
Location: Torino,
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post

function decoder for the lightning control


Do you have such a high voltage in your layout ? Smile

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Offline dominator  
#3 Posted : 20 January 2021 10:17:54(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 942
Location: Kerikeri
Would a bridge rectifier be better than diodes. In my installations, I used a bridge rectifier, capacitors and resisters in every carriage. The current conducting couplers carry the full voltage from the track to all my carriages.

Mind you, I have designed mine to run on ac or dc. I think the bridge rectifiers help to clean up the strange voltages that come from the digital feed. without the bridge, mine didn't work so well on the dc.
Not sure if this is the right response regarding your question.


Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 January 2021 10:27:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,121
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Would a bridge rectifier be better than diodes. In my installations, I used a bridge rectifier, capacitors and resisters in every carriage. The current conducting couplers carry the full voltage from the track to all my carriages.
When the couplers are connected to the decoder output then a bridge rectifier in each coach makes no sense, a simple diode will be enough.
To prevent flickering a capacitor in each coach could make sense.
Capacitors without a loading resistor can disturb the mfx signal on the track.

Adding a relay to the decoder output and distributing the track current over the couplers may be a good way. Then bridge rectifiers in each coach make sense.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PeFu  
#5 Posted : 10 April 2021 16:36:56(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 891
I have now opened the Cab Control Car (Märklin 43575) for the first time. There are some electronics at the cab (below pic) and under the boggie there are some mechanics that checks which direction the car is running. If forward, then white front lights, if backwards, then red lights. Above the cab, there is a lighted sign, ”Zurich HB”.

I’m not so happy with this solution... Glare

The lights are flickering at bad conduct locations, and I want to add a capacitor. Also, I plan to exchange the ”direction mechanics” with outputs from a function decoder I plan to use for controlling interior lights on/off.

Has anyone of you done something like this, and know how to deal with the cab electronics?

Smile

A3F52F53-F13E-4AD8-B892-D80DBDA35356.jpeg
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 10 April 2021 17:08:37(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,514
Location: Paris, France
Hi PeFu

I have some cars like this and they work very well and it is extremely simple
It is based on the use of a trailing switch (Schleppschalter)
BogieContactDirectionel.jpg

Here is one of them: a contact clipsed on one of the axles is making contact with one contact or the other thus giving the directional switch illumination.
Another one is the Schienenbus trailer based on the exact same principle.
Of course this works mostly with very low current (less than 10 mA) although in the early 1950s Märklin was doing the same on most large locos (CCS800, TT800, DL 800, ST 800, TP 800..) with a much larger current and larger contact with larger friction force
I don't see any blinking which may be caused by unclean wheels or contacts (cleaning the wheels and making sure the slider is not worn out may be simpler.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline PeFu  
#7 Posted : 10 April 2021 22:10:51(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 891
Would it be possible to feed the electronics with rectified (and capacitor supported) DC instead of digital power? There will be an additional rectifier within the electronics, but this wouldn’t cause any problem, would it?

Smile
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 10 April 2021 22:26:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,514
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Would it be possible to feed the electronics with rectified (and capacitor supported) DC instead of digital power? There will be an additional rectifier within the electronics, but this wouldn’t cause any problem, would it?

Smile

Hi PeFu
It runs already on "rectified" electronics to transform the 19V hash current (digital) to feed the LEDs.
Note this applies only to previous design (from 2010 or so) to exclude latest models with a function decoder.
It looks like the Zürcher S Bahn double decker 43574 belongs to this type (former - no decoder)
The only issue you may face is a reduction in luminosity (lower voltage)
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 11 April 2021 00:24:17(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Michigan, Troy
Thank you, good tips. I have three, only one lit NIW with an old tube bulb.
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Offline PeFu  
#10 Posted : 11 April 2021 22:56:33(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 891
I ended up feeding the cab control car electronics with DC according to the principle described in a parallel posting. This way, in addition to eliminating the flickering, I can also turn the cab lights on/off. I can’t see any reduction of brightness, feeding with DC instead of ”AC” (digital power).

Cool
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
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