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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2020 17:46:56(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 824
I have a similar problem as fellow member Applor reported here.

It's about a Märklin 37593 (SBB Ae 8/14) in which I replaced the decoder with an ESU LokPilot V4.0. Installing the decoder in 2019, everything was OK. Now, when testing my engines, the motors in the 37593 behaves strange using both my Märklin CS2 or TrainController:



Initially, I was thinking of two options:

(1) Open the engine and check the motors?
(2) If motors are OK, maybe the LokPilot decoder is broken?

However, as a 3rd option, I decided to first check the decoder using the ESU LokProgrammer (V5.1.0). And guess: Using the LokProgrammer Driver's cab, the engine behaves OK:



Decoder and CS2 firmware is up to date, so are TrainController and LokProgrammer. Decoder address is set to 308, so there shouldn't be any Märklin-Motorola interference? I found the ESU user forum, but registration is closed until January 4th. So much for digitalisation!

Would you have any suggestion here? Confused

Edited by user 11 January 2021 01:10:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2020 18:01:55(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,823
Location: Montreal, QC
First suggestion that I can make is to hold your phone the other way when filming so that we don't have to enjoy black bands on either side ;)

Märklin digital equipment (MS/CS) are designed to seek out digital controls in a preset sequence. Your decoder can understand multiple formats and normally is set for one of those systems.
A Märklin controller normally seeks out MFX, then MM and then DCC, although the order might be different on some units.
If the CS2 is trying to communicate with the decoder in MM when the decoder is preferentially set to DCC, this might cause some unusual responses.
If your decoder is an M4 (MFX) It may be communicating with the Lok in DCC when the decoder is trying to find MFX.

One thing that I could suggest would be to run the locomotive for a few minutes on an analog test track and to then place it back on your digital track.
It should then recognize the commands from it's preferred mode.

When using the Driver's Cab feature on the Lokprogrammer, you are asked to input the Lok Address and the preferred system (MM, DCC (versions)).
AFAIR there was no MFX settings on that programmer.

You can select the system that the decoder recognizes. If you disable all but your preferred system using the Lokprogrammer and see if it responds properly afterwards.

Regards

Mike C
Offline applor  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2020 22:50:38(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,588
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I see you are using DCC 14 on lokprogrammer - what protocol/steps are you using with the CS2/train controller?

Does the same thing happen if you test the loco with MM protocol using either CS2 or lokprogrammer?

modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline PeFu  
#4 Posted : 28 December 2020 23:35:38(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 824
Thanks for your input on this, I really like the Ae 8/14 and would like to use it on a regular basis!

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
One thing that I could suggest would be to run the locomotive for a few minutes on an analog test track and to then place it back on your digital track.
It should then recognize the commands from it's preferred mode.


Unfortunately, I no longer have the equipment for running trains in analog mode...

Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
I see you are using DCC 14 on lokprogrammer - what protocol/steps are you using with the CS2/train controller?

Does the same thing happen if you test the loco with MM protocol using either CS2 or lokprogrammer?


I tested with a shorter address using MM on the CS2 and in the TrainController, unfortunately having the same behaviour. I will test tomorrow on the different DCC variants (14, 28 etc.), and also test disabling Mfx on the CS2.

Smile
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Offline PeFu  
#5 Posted : 29 December 2020 14:45:01(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 824
I have now tested different settings in Lokpilot...

Enabling DCC and MM,
Enabling DCC only,
Enabling MM only

...in combinations with settings in CS 2 and rebooted...

Enabling Auto,
Enabling DCC and MM,
Enabling DCC only,
Enabling MM only

I also deleted the engines and created new engines with fresh addresses in the CS2.

Still the same behaviour as in my clips above.

OhMyGod
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Offline French_Fabrice  
#6 Posted : 29 December 2020 15:38:18(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,323
Location: Lyon, France
Hello PeFu,

Maybe a shoot in the dark, but I'm wondering if your lokprogrammer has the same voltage output as CS2 ?

I seem to remember that when I programmed some lokpilot with the lokprogrammer (V4), I used the power block provided with the LP on my test track (small 12V, 500mA block).
And sometimes, I had to adjust some CV values when the loco went to the real tracks.

How do you provide power to your LP ?

Cheers
Fabrice

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 30 December 2020 05:01:34(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,823
Location: Montreal, QC
I had a situation last week with my MS2, where it kept flashing MFX when I put the lok on the track, but it would not fully recognize the locomotive.
I tried using a saved profile that had DCC 03, but the Lok would not respond to that either.
I was not sure of the MM setting for that locomotive. I believe it was likely also 03 as I had not to my knowledge ever set a number for it.
When I put the locomotive on my Lokprogrammer track, it responded immediately to DCC.
When I moved it back to the carpet track, it did the MFX detected thing, but would not complete. It would still not respond to DCC 03.
I ended up trying to get it to recognize the Lok and it responded by creating a new entry for DCC 03 with only a handful of functions.
I ended up taking out my analog transformer and powering a two section test track and ran the locomotive back and forth for a few minutes.
When I put the lok back on the layout, the MS2 finally detected the MFX and operated as intended.

For the record, it was a Hag Lok with an ESU M4 Loksound decoder.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline PeFu  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2021 01:28:13(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Maybe a shoot in the dark, but I'm wondering if your lokprogrammer has the same voltage output as CS2 ?

I seem to remember that when I programmed some lokpilot with the lokprogrammer (V4), I used the power block provided with the LP on my test track (small 12V, 500mA block).
And sometimes, I had to adjust some CV values when the loco went to the real tracks.

How do you provide power to your LP ?


Just a short follow-up on this topic: The input from Fabrice on the voltage differences helped me understand that this actually was a maintenance issue. First I cleaned the two motors and changed brushes. Then the engine was running much smoother, but I also added a second ESU decoder and a pickup-shoe for the rear unit, as it sounded as if the load from two motors was a bit too heavy for the single decoder... First sync the units on DCC CV level, then sync using TrainController (according to the clip below). Now I have a genuine track monster!

Smile

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
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