Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline mfaris01  
#1 Posted : 16 October 2020 15:39:05(UTC)
mfaris01

China   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Tianjin
Hey all!

I have a friend that recently bought her daughter her first Marklin set 29721 and her family set everything up. The daughter sent me a video of her setup, as they know I'm a long time Marklin evangelist. It looked great!

Earlier this week, I went to their home to view the new addition to their family (Marklin) and the locomotive habitually derailed on curves. I noticed that it was a 0-10-0 arrangement and saw that the loco had spring loaded wheels (left to right) to compensate for the curved track.

Does anyone have any advice for this problem? I don't have one of these models and it doesn't make sense why it would constantly derail like this. Nothing seems to be "bent" or out of place. She's a very careful little girl and hasn't dropped it or "crashed" her trains in fun.

Please advise..

Thanks,

Michael
Offline Copenhagen  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2020 16:53:16(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 77
I have a Maerklin 37179 which looks to have a similar wheel and axle setup... and it runs fine. Check that nothing is out of whack; that the pickup shoe is fine, that none of the rods between the wheels are bent or in some way distorted or dislodged, see if it runs smooth on a straight line or if there is something bumpy about it. Some of the axles should have a large play to right and left in order to run the curves. On my loco it's axle 2, 3 and 5. Also check if the wheel spacing is too wide on some of the axles, this can be done by holding a piece of track close to the wheels.
Offline TrainIride  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2020 20:20:50(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Hi,

maybe some close pictures of the bottom of the loco will help .

Does the loco derails on curve upon a turnout ?
Does a buffer or a coupler catching something ?
Maybe the slider is not well "clicked" in the loco chassis ?
Does the loco also derails without any wagon behind ?

Best Regards
Joël
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 16 October 2020 22:20:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Montreal, QC
A few quick questions...

1) Does the locomotive derail only when pulling cars or does it also derail when running solo?

If the locomotive only derails when pulling cars, this might suggest an issue with the couplers.

There are some add on parts that can be installed if the couplers are removed. If those parts were added with the couplers still mounted, they could interfere with the operation.
See Page 29 of the instructions

2) The wheels should have some play so that they can shift when the locomotive is on a curved track. Make sure that they are freely shifting.

3) Make sure that the slider is properly clipped into place. If it is not in place, it can cause a derailment, especially when entering a curved section.

4) Make sure that the rods are properly lined up, as a bent rod can cause one side of the locomotive to "lift up"

As suggested above, if you can post photos of both sides of the locomotive and the underside, it may help provide a more specific diagnosis.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mfaris01  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2020 11:08:02(UTC)
mfaris01

China   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Tianjin
Thanks for all of the helpful responses.

To answer a few questions,

It derails both with and without stock.

It works fine on the straight sections.


Only derails as soon as it starts a curved section.

I asked the girl to take a couple of pics...

IMG_7924.JPGIMG_7925.JPG

Thanks,

Michael
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 17 October 2020 11:49:05(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,066
Location: Spain
Well, on the rightmost photo, one of the driving rods (near the front, part lowest to the ground) is clearly bent like a banana!
Some paint has been scraped off, where the rod has been grinding against the other parts...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 17 October 2020 13:21:44(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,142
Location: Paris, France
Hi
I agree with Henrik The top right picture shows a bent driving rod.

This may happen when one (or more) driving wheels have lost their quartering or when the wheel screw is bumping on (may be a driving rod).
I have a similar loco:
37170 T16 KPEV Close-up.jpg
The KPEV T16 Märklin 37166 (2014) runs like a charm has a smoke generator and Telex couplings.

The first production run of this Märklin loco 37160 back in 2012 had a number of issues with the distribution gears so a close inspection is needed.
Attention not all the screws have the same length and there are some washers to put back in their proper location.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline mfaris01  
#8 Posted : 17 October 2020 13:51:14(UTC)
mfaris01

China   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Tianjin
Wow, you're right! I'll take my Marklin toolkit over to their house on Monday and see what I can do.

She's only had the set for a few days.

Thanks you guys for pointing this out!

IMG_7925 copy.jpg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2020 14:36:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,142
Location: Paris, France
Good. If I may add, it not only about straitening the driving rod but also about checking that the screw which caused the bending is the proper one (it should be shorter with a flatter head).
With my limited vision I highly recommend using illuminated magnifying glass.
Testing must be made by removing the motor to verify that whatever the curve is and its direction (to the left or to the right) no jamming is possible. A very light bending of the driving away from obstacles like the screw may help.
Good repair
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline mfaris01  
#10 Posted : 17 October 2020 14:54:47(UTC)
mfaris01

China   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Tianjin
Thanks, JohnjeanB!

I will check the screws on the adjacent wheel to make sure it didn't come loose. This is a new set and I know that Marklin's QA is not imperfect, but perhaps a loose bolt got passed them. I'll double check everything.

Thanks again.
Offline nhumps  
#11 Posted : 17 October 2020 22:23:32(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Wellington
Sorry to hear about this happening, good luck with repairs!

I've got the same 37160 - 94 713 loco and thought i'd add about the problem i've had incase it may be part of the cause. Or even just something to look for when reassembling.
I can't tell in the picture if this loco has the problem, you almost need to shine a light to see i think.


I had a problem where the "metal sprung" bits on the chassis got on the wrong side of the wheels. They are on the front 4 pairs only. This caused the motor to struggle and cease/die as the wheels got jammed. These parts push the wheels back to center after going through curves.

Screen Shot 2020-10-18 at 09.09.46.png

ref: exploded diagram from the manual at
https://www.marklin.com/...ts/details/article/37160


Fixing this was tricky, the very front set is i think impossible to do without dropping the gearing cover set... but you have to be very careful to align the guides and get it all flush (rods included) when reassembling.

Hopefully you don't have that problem but if you are taking rods off and the bottom wheelset cover then be aware of these little metal sprung pieces
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by nhumps
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 18 October 2020 02:39:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,713
Location: Montreal, QC
I also noticed that something seems off here:

resource.ashx.jpeg

The pins on the last wheelset need to be lubricated so that the side rods can shift and the wheels can shift as required.
Make sure that they are freely moving.

MC
Offline nhumps  
#13 Posted : 18 October 2020 02:52:40(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I also noticed that something seems off here:

resource.ashx.jpeg

The pins on the last wheelset need to be lubricated so that the side rods can shift and the wheels can shift as required.
Make sure that they are freely moving.

MC


I think that is “ok.” The rear most set is free to move side to side and has no sprung metal pieces to guide it back to Center

Edit: sorry mike c, didn’t see the note about lube till after I posted
Offline hxmiesa  
#14 Posted : 18 October 2020 10:30:57(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,066
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I also noticed that something seems off here:
The pins on the last wheelset need to be lubricated so that the side rods can shift and the wheels can shift as required.
Make sure that they are freely moving.MC

Actually NO. You never lube the pins for the driving rods. They have plenty of free room to move in (it's not a precision fit).
Any kind of grease will just make dust and dirt gunk up there... ThumbDown
What SHOULD be checked, though, is the quartering of the wheels. Seeing the kind of damage the driving rod has suffered (its not easy for the loco to bend that metal part by itself) I would fear that the wheels has been forced to rotate, and the quartering may be all over the place.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline mfaris01  
#15 Posted : 18 October 2020 11:26:11(UTC)
mfaris01

China   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Tianjin
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I also noticed that something seems off here:
The pins on the last wheelset need to be lubricated so that the side rods can shift and the wheels can shift as required.
Make sure that they are freely moving.MC

Actually NO. You never lube the pins for the driving rods. They have plenty of free room to move in (it's not a precision fit).
Any kind of grease will just make dust and dirt gunk up there... ThumbDown
What SHOULD be checked, though, is the quartering of the wheels. Seeing the kind of damage the driving rod has suffered (its not easy for the loco to bend that metal part by itself) I would fear that the wheels has been forced to rotate, and the quartering may be all over the place.


How do I check the quartering? Is that the alignment of the offset wheel weights? Should they all be in line with one another?


Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 18 October 2020 11:51:42(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,142
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: mfaris01 Go to Quoted Post
How do I check the quartering?Is that the alignment of the offset wheel weights?Should they all be in line with one another?

Hi
Because we have no tools like Märklin does it remains the visual inspection:
- position all the wheel on one side so that the coupling bars is down-most
- check that on the other side, the rod (rods) form a strait line and that the screws of the coupling bars are all positioned front-most or rearmost (at a 90° angle).

Notes the small tools you may find for quartering are only usable when the entire axle mount is installed from the bottom (not the case here)
Of course don't rotate the wheel by hand unless the motor and its wormgear is disengaged.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#17 Posted : 18 October 2020 20:20:58(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I don't know if I am seeing right - and it may be difficult to judge from the photograph above - but it looks to me as if the front axle (topmost in the photo) is a bit wider than the others. It may have contributed to the other issues.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2020, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.781 seconds.