Like all of us, I'm confined to home until this pandemic is over, and so I have quite a lot of time to work on my layout. I decided to start writing some schedules in TrainController and testing the trains. I ran a schedule with a steam loco several times to iron out any bugs in the schedule and when I had successfully finished this, I added the passenger car set 42259. I haven't used this car set yet - still in the box. I carefully oiled the wheels and attached them to the loco. On the first run the passenger cars would derail, especially over turnouts and at "s"bends. I thought it could be the buffers as they were extremely close to one another, so I removed the 2 buffers at one end of each carriage. Still derailments. Conclusion - the quality control at Marklin is non existant. The design and manufacturing at Marklin is inferior. This set is suppose to be the upmarket product with a 5 year warranty - it didn't last 5 minutes. If I send it back to Marklin it will cost me nearly as much as I paid for the set, unless Marklin are willing to pay the postage. They won't as I know from experience - Frank Mayer promised to reimburse me all my previous postage - that was over 2 years ago and I'm still waiting.

If someone at Marklin reads this thread then this is the best time to get rid of the deadwood in the company. Use this pandemic to rid these useless individuals who are not performing and replace them with personal that are willing to do the work, and there are plenty of people out there looking for work. Oh, I forgot, that's a good idea and and management at Marklin wouldn't know a good idea even it it hit them in the head.

Sorry everyone for the rank, but I'm fed up paying top dollar for rubbish.

Regards
Greg

Maybe also check that the back to back measurements of the wheels are in gauge.

Carim

I have this set bought the year after its Insider debut. It is located always on the layout and is very frequently run. My maintenance regime is not good!. It runs perfectly and always has done.

Well you seem to have far more than the rest of us (either that or we don't run ours enough to discover the faults).

I thought that years ago Märklin said that they would no longer support Drongo/Greg?

Since it’s impossible to know how well your track is laid, it’s very difficult to diagnose the problem. S curves, switches laid on grades or in possible S curve combinations are very difficult areas of a layout. I have this set and have experienced no problems at all on the ETE modules. We use K Track.

Except we don't actually know yet that the product IS 'faulty'.

I suggested some tips before the post above to narrow down the issue, did you manage yet to try them out?

Cheers

Cookee

Here is a simple test...

Run the train slowly. Can you tell which coach is the first to derail?
If yes, remove that coach from the consist and test again.
Does the consist still derail?

If there is no derailment, then the problem lies with the coach that you removed.
Inspect the coach to see if there is some issue with the bogies or with the coupling shaft.

Open the coach and check to see that the contact plate that is inserted above the coupling mechanism is properly seated.
On some models, this little metal plate can shift out of place and prevent the coupling mechanism from correctly pivoting.

Take each coach and run it manually with your hand over problematic sections of the track. See whether you can notice any signs of interference in the smooth rolling.
Let us know if you find anything.

As far as rubbish, I have two three car sets of Swiss Post Freight cars that have serious operational issues.

Regards

Mike C

Greg, I'm really sorry to read what is happening to you. I went through the same issues, but with Roco coaches on C track.
I opened a thread about my trials and tribulations.
I tried loads of things too. Changed couplers at both ends of the 'coach consist', while retaining Roco couplers between coaches, changed couplers on the locomotives and lastly I changed the wheels. I don't know if only the wheel change would have sufficed but ....

Anyway I looked at the bogies and had a go at them as well.
Importantly, for Marklin, your coaches should run properly out of the box without you having to do anything.

I'm attaching what I did to the bogies, only the ones facing the locomotives, as I noticed that the part pointed to by the arrow on the coupling mechanism, in my opinion, got stuck in the frame of the bogie, the one inside the red oval, on R1 curves.
Fortunately I didn't have S bends.

HTH

Thanks fellas for your very sound advice, however, there are 2 reasons why I won't & shouldn't make the necessary adjustments to the coaches.

1. These coaches are brand new and are suppose to be the top of the range products, so why should I spend MY time trying to identify and rectify the problem.

2. My hands are not like they used to be and I'm becoming very clumsy and if I damage the coaches beyond repair then I'll have no recall to send them back to Marklin.

The suggestions made are that the bogies are not assembled properly and this suggests that the production process is not good, and there's no excuse for this.

I can't send the coaches back to Marklin at the moment as all postage to Germany is suspended - so I'm caught between a rock and a hard place, and this infuriates me. AND Frank Mayer still owes me the money.

Regards
Greg

p.s. I sent back 35 turnout motors/decoders and I received an email last night to say that they would repair them for about 6 euro dearer than buying new ones !!!!!!! They must think that we Australians are stupid because we live downunder.

That photo represents what came in the coaches and how they would get stuck to one side. I started a thread about this, which is located here: https://www.marklin-user...-Rheingold-Coach-Problem

Post #11 shows my homemade solution, and later Mikael kindly provided me with the correct part number for what should have been installed at the factory.

Post #26 shows a comparison between what my coaches came with and what should have been in my coaches.

These coaches are not the only new Märklin products which I had to work on right out of the box.

These are beautiful coaches and among my favorites, but my experience shows that QC at Märklin today is clearly not what it once was.

Rough handling? I can confirm that this happens also when we ship servers across the world.
It happend to me more than once. A customer of mine once sent me the picture of a rackable server they had just received, chassis was bent !!!
This was the worst we had, fortunately :-(
Courier insurance covered the cost of it.

Nonetheless this is really rubbish for Marklin and you are correct in not wanting to touch the coaches.

Hi Greg,

Just a couple of things I'm curious about (if you don't mind)...

1: Where do you normally source your new items from? ie from an Australian-based supplier or from an overseas outlet? (this assumes all purchases are from a reputable outlet)

2: Why do you feel you need to send to coaches back to Märklin directly, rather than returning them to the supplier?

I ask these questions for these reasons;

A: If you purchased from an Australian outlet (an established Märklin reseller) then you have the protection of your Sales of Goods and Consumer Guarantees legislation. Your first point of recourse should be with the reseller. (But of course you do sometimes have the option to go direct to the manufacturer if you wish, but it seems that has not been to your advantage).
But sometimes having the reseller go in to bat for you can be a lot less stressful

B: Both the above questions also relate to the distance, freight costs, and time delays you may incur should you need to return something for repair/replacement.

C: Some resellers (not all) actually can do their own repairs, particularly on products they have sold. Sometimes it is simply cheaper for them to do that, than to send the item back to Germany. It's just a cost that they need to factor into their decision to run a business, (any type of business)

You've stated previously that you have a small business placing model railways into rest-homes but I'm assuming that this 5-coach set that you are having issues with is for your personal use rather than use on one of those layouts?

Regards

Steve
Wellington

Hi Steve,
I buy my goods online from reputable Marklin dealers in Germany. I send my products direct to Marklin because I find the turnaround is much faster. Regarding the small business, it has come to a stop because of various outside influences, mainly because local councils are not forthcoming with consents to build new facilities, however, we still maintain the facilities.
These items that I've mentioned in this thread are for my personal layout, and after spending quite a few hours experimenting and implementing the recommendations mentioned here, I think I have discovered the problem.
Marklin for some unknown reason have installed extremely complex coupling mechanisms in 2 of the coaches - WHY? When the other 3 coaches have simple mechanisms. I applied some Inox spray on the mechanisms and so far everything is ok. There are about 5 or 6 moving parts in each mechanism and all this does is give more chances of something to go wrong. The buffers actually slide from side to side - WHY ????? Is it because this is prototypical ? Very anal. Who will notice that the buffers are moving ?? This is why I believe that Marklin have lost the plot - providing model trains for about 1 or 2 % of their customers.

Edited by moderator 18 April 2020 17:51:54(UTC)  | Reason: Edited to not include Cookee's entire post, as we don't need to read it twice!

Thanks John. You help to prove my point about Marklin. I want Marklin to take notice so as they go back to producing the premium products. That's all I want from them - QUALITY

Well said. It reminds me of the time when I was working and I attended a woodworking machinery exhibition in Dusselldorf in the 1990's, and I was walking past an Italian Machinery company who were exhibiting a number of machines. One in particular I was looking at was a beam saw. For those who don't know what a beam saw is - it's a circular saw machine that is capable of cutting a stack of boards automatically (a brief explanation) and at they time they cost around 100,000 euro. A salesman walked up to me and said "What do you think of the colour - beautifully, eh". I couldn't give a rat's about the colour, I wanted to know if it worked well. And this is the path that Marklin is going down. This Italian machinery company doesn't exist anymore - and they wonder why.

Pointless discussion which is going the same way as 100s of previous threads.

It’s pointless because someone says Märklin quality is not what is was because it’s made in Gyor or China or wherever. A bunch of people reply that it’s the posters bad luck and it’s never happened to them. those who have the luxury of a dealer say talk to your dealer. others will say if you don’t like Marklin don’t buy it. I can’t be the only one who sees deja vu in this sort of thread or am I?

No Stuart you are not the only one.

This discussion has been going on for years and you are right that there is no definitive answer. As a friend said several years ago, Märklin quality is different today but it is what it is and you either keep buying them or you don't. I guess I am still trying to figure out my answer to that.

There are a number of modellers who are fortunate to live in places where there are local dealers. There are others who have no dealers within miles or kilometres of their location.

In my case, the closest dealers are at least 500km from me. That is the equivalent of having to travel from Munich to Koblenz or from Paris to Strasbourg.
On top of that, many items might only be available on special order, meaning if you did not order it, the only way it is in stock is if somebody else ordered it, but failed to pick it up. Shops do not stock each and every item. Some may have a particular focus. For me, it was often extremely hard to find SBB (Swiss) because the national distributor favoured German (DB) and Dutch (NS) models. It got better when Canadian distribution was merged with US operations (Walthers), later Marklin USA, but it came with a whole new set of issues.

If you order an item, chances were very good that there was no replacement models on hand in case of defects/issues. So any problem with a new item could not readily be resolved by a replacement from dealer stock. Dealers would either return defects or repairs to Milwaukee, who would ship them to Germany three or four times per year. The models were then repaired or replaced in Germany and would then be returned to the USA in the next regular shipment and from there to the dealer with their next scheduled order. At some point, they decided to return repairs to dealers individually on arrival, which was an improvement.
Dealers who had weekly order fills always had better service than those who only placed monthly or quarterly orders. In my case, the local shop, that I used to work at, would only place an order with Walthers when it reached a certain amount (to make it worthwhile), so part orders and repairs would sit until they had sufficient items to make it financially feasible.

I loved the quality of the classic Maerklin motors. The reliability and ease of service was second to none. I liked the introduction of digital and sound. I was never one to complain about the noise. The trend towards micro motors and cardan shafts is interesting, but the new norm of having to remove the PC board to lubricate the motor and gears concerns me. As I get older, I need glasses for close up work and my hands are not as steady as they used to be. I can still oil and service my old Ae 6/6 and the early Re 4/4IIs are still manageable, but I am hesitant to work on my latest models. I would rather have seen Maerklin go to Hag style quality with the old motors rather than relying on cheaper can motors, while the price has remained the same or gone up.

A Maschima or Maxon motor can be good, but many models come with dubious motors that I am not certain will work as long as the older ones, nor am I sure that a replacement will be available if those eventually give out. With a classic Maerklin motor, I could change the core and the motor and brushes would be good as new.

I am hesitant because when you go out and spend $1000 on a model (LSM TEE Gottardo) and your model arrives with a broken roof detail (wires) and you can't get a replacement part, you become jaded. Over time, this can break your connection or passion to the hobby.

Maerklin needs to remember two things. Models that can be easily maintained and serviced by customers is better for the company.
Getting too complicated or making models disposable is not good in the long term.
Like Drongo, I feel that I have had more than my share of disappointments. I cannot say that they have all been with Maerklin.
I try to differentiate between getting a dud and other issues. What irks me the most is cutting of corners, such as the half assed paint job on multi coloured SBB Cargo models (37360, 37446, etc). 37360 was fixed after complaints about the initial run. 37446 was not.

Here'a a thought for Maerklin. If you are going to outsource the manufacture of motors, why not buy or license them from Hag instead of using can motors?
I would be a happy camper with a Hag motor in my Maerklin SBB loks.

Regards

Mike C

Mike,

In this case the problem was the wrong coupler pocket part with "arms" which were too short. That allowed the one arm (top in this photo) to move out of the normal channel and to get stuck. Once I replaced those with the correct parts they now stay where they should, even at their greatest deflection. It was not a bad design but a case of not assembling the coaches with the parts that were designed for it.

I simply wanted to point out that running issues have a number of causes and not to overlook the fact that your brand new coaches might be at fault.

It could have repercussions, a.) being to short (obvious), b.) being longer and no longer can the mechanism move far enough to go through sharper curves.
In my opinion its a stuff up right from the beginning, trying to correct a wrong item to solve 1 problem and than creating another problem which hasn't been thought of or tested.

John

Never witnessed this. Maybe I'm getting too old but in our days they used to include even the tiniest parts ... and you could order them too

On the other hand; in case of HAG, you don't even get the diagrams, just have to dig in the internet or ask on the forums. We sure have one hell of a hobby ... but I don't complain as it keeps me busy

Cem.