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Online river6109  
#1 Posted : 11 March 2020 03:57:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, I'm not familiar with the Märklin Central station, the question has arisen whether or not an ESU Loksound V 4.0 is automatically recognized under M4 on the Central station., any help would be very much appreciated.

John

Edited by user 13 March 2020 15:05:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 11 March 2020 04:26:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,687
Location: New Zealand
Yes it will providing the Loksound 4 uses the M4 protocol (ESU's version of mfx).

Railcom is not supported on Marklin's Central Stations.
Online river6109  
#3 Posted : 11 March 2020 09:00:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Yes it will providing the Loksound 4 uses the M4 protocol (ESU's version of mfx).

Railcom is not supported on Marklin's Central Stations.

I assume than it has to be a M4 sound decoder and not the ordinary sound decoder

John

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5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 11 March 2020 09:20:03(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,687
Location: New Zealand
It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled.
Online river6109  
#5 Posted : 11 March 2020 11:56:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled.


Dave, I rang ESU in the end and it has to be the M4 V 4.0 sound decoder but with the V 5.0 it is already automatically included and you don't have different options.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Rajnish  
#6 Posted : 11 March 2020 12:40:13(UTC)
Rajnish


Joined: 31/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 76
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi!

LokSound V4 decoders came in two versions - the DCC version (54400 - 8 pin, 54499 - 21 pin etc) and then they used to have the multi-protocol versions (64400 - 8-pin, 64499 - 21-pin etc) which supported M4 (mfx) apart from DCC/MM/SX protocols.

With V5, the company has simplified the product line by creating true multi-protocol decoders - 58410 8-pin - DCC/MM/SX/ M4, 58419 - 21-pin etc. This has enabled the company to simplify its product mix which is good from a product management standpoint for the company as well as dealers because they have fewer SKUs to manage.

All M4 decoders are automatically recognized by CS2/CS3 as well as MS2. If the CS2 or MS2 has a very old version of the firmware, the controller may not recognize the decoder and the person will have to upgrade to the latest version for automatically recognizing the M4 decoder (In some cases, the ESU LokSound decoders wont even respond to the Marklin controller if the firmware version is quite old).

Cheers,

Rajnish
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 11 March 2020 14:11:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Rajnish Go to Quoted Post
LokSound V4 decoders came in two versions - the DCC version (54400 - 8 pin, 54499 - 21 pin etc) and then they used to have the multi-protocol versions (64400 - 8-pin, 64499 - 21-pin etc) which supported M4 (mfx) apart from DCC/MM/SX protocols.
The LokSound V4 only came in multi-protocol versions: with three protocols (DCC/MM/SX) and with four protocols (DCC/MM/SX/M4). And IIRC the latter was a bit more expensive.

Originally Posted by: Rajnish Go to Quoted Post
With V5, the company has simplified the product line by creating true multi-protocol decoders - 58410 8-pin - DCC/MM/SX/ M4, 58419 - 21-pin etc.
So you are saying that Märklin do not offer "true multi-protocol decoders". Cool

Originally Posted by: Rajnish Go to Quoted Post
All M4 decoders are automatically recognized by CS2/CS3 as well as MS2. If the CS2 or MS2 has a very old version of the firmware, the controller may not recognize the decoder and the person will have to upgrade to the latest version for automatically recognizing the M4 decoder (In some cases, the ESU LokSound decoders wont even respond to the Marklin controller if the firmware version is quite old).
The problem is the faulty firmware of the MS2. The decoders work fine with MS1 or CS1 because those have had a correct mfx implementation for several years now. The MS2 also needed new firmware for the mfx+ decoders by Märklin.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 13 March 2020 09:57:02(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,140
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled.


Dave, I rang ESU in the end and it has to be the M4 V 4.0 sound decoder but with the V 5.0 it is already automatically included and you don't have different options.

John



Provided you do not purchase the v5.0 DCC which is a DCC only decoder.
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 13 March 2020 10:30:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Provided you do not purchase the v5.0 DCC which is a DCC only decoder.
There is no DCC-only or non-mfx version of the V5 LokSound decoder.

There are two DCC-only versions of the V5 LokPilot decoder. Not suitable for analogue AC operation, so not really appropriate for three-rail customers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online river6109  
#10 Posted : 13 March 2020 15:04:37(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
The Loksound V 5.0 has only one description and it recognizes all system under the ESU protocol, where as the Loksound V 4.0 had various version of it including the M4.

John
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Offline Surge  
#11 Posted : 03 November 2020 17:22:18(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed.
Thanks in advance...
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:06:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,140
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed.
Thanks in advance...


Under mfx they will only have 16 functions. Even if you upgrade the decoders to the most v4 software I don't think you get more mfx functions.

to get the 25 functions you will need to run them as DCC locos.
Offline Surge  
#13 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:28:30(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed.
Thanks in advance...


Under mfx they will only have 16 functions. Even if you upgrade the decoders to the most v4 software I don't think you get more mfx functions.

to get the 25 functions you will need to run them as DCC locos.


Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3?
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:31:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3?
Simple solution: Disable mfx in the CS3, register the loco as DCC, then disable mfx in the loco decoder, finally enable mfx in the CS3.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Surge  
#15 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:34:38(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3?
Simple solution: Disable mfx in the CS3, register the loco as DCC, then disable mfx in the loco decoder, finally enable mfx in the CS3.



Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer?
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline applor  
#16 Posted : 04 November 2020 05:39:39(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,665
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post


Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer?



No you can change it using your control station with CV adjustment. All in the manual...

protocol ESU.jpg
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline Surge  
#17 Posted : 04 November 2020 06:10:19(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post


Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer?



No you can change it using your control station with CV adjustment. All in the manual...

protocol ESU.jpg


Thank you.

I guess the correct process is:
1) connect to loco via MFX
2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only
3) turn off MFX in CS3
4) add loco manually as DCC
5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos)

Is this correct?
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 04 November 2020 08:29:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
I guess the correct process is:
1) connect to loco via MFX
2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only
3) turn off MFX in CS3
4) add loco manually as DCC
5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos)

Is this correct?
Feel free to try it, If you manage to disable mfx in step 2 then you can skip steps 3 and 5.
I assume you have to do it 1-3-4-2-5.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Surge  
#19 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:05:54(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
I guess the correct process is:
1) connect to loco via MFX
2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only
3) turn off MFX in CS3
4) add loco manually as DCC
5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos)

Is this correct?
Feel free to try it, If you manage to disable mfx in step 2 then you can skip steps 3 and 5.
I assume you have to do it 1-3-4-2-5.



So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1).

I was able to control the locomotive using DCC after disabling MFX in the CS3; but I have to enable it again to be able to control MFX locomotives. So ideally MFX can be disabled in the locomotive...
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:16:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1).
Where don't you see it? I see it in the manual.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Surge  
#21 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:37:23(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1).
Where don't you see it? I see it in the manual.



In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47...
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:44:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,291
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47...
The CS2 only shows a short list of common CVs by default, but there is a "+" button that allows adding more CVs. I assume it is similar with the CS3.

On the ESU ECoS or CS1R you just enter the number of the CV you want to change.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Surge  
#23 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:57:03(UTC)
Surge

United States   
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: NYC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Surge Go to Quoted Post
In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47...
The CS2 only shows a short list of common CVs by default, but there is a "+" button that allows adding more CVs. I assume it is similar with the CS3.

On the ESU ECoS or CS1R you just enter the number of the CV you want to change.



Ah, ok, I get it now, thanks!
Gauge 1 locomotive collector
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