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river6109		#1 Posted : 11 March 2020 03:57:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,782 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Hi, I'm not familiar with the Märklin Central station, the question has arisen whether or not an ESU Loksound V 4.0 is automatically recognized under M4 on the Central station., any help would be very much appreciated. John Edited by user 13 March 2020 15:05:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Bigdaddynz		#2 Posted : 11 March 2020 04:26:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,723 Location: New Zealand		Yes it will providing the Loksound 4 uses the M4 protocol (ESU's version of mfx). Railcom is not supported on Marklin's Central Stations.
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river6109		#3 Posted : 11 March 2020 09:00:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,782 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Yes it will providing the Loksound 4 uses the M4 protocol (ESU's version of mfx). Railcom is not supported on Marklin's Central Stations. I assume than it has to be a M4 sound decoder and not the ordinary sound decoder John
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Bigdaddynz		#4 Posted : 11 March 2020 09:20:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,723 Location: New Zealand		It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled.
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river6109		#5 Posted : 11 March 2020 11:56:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,782 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled. Dave, I rang ESU in the end and it has to be the M4 V 4.0 sound decoder but with the V 5.0 it is already automatically included and you don't have different options. John
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Rajnish		#6 Posted : 11 March 2020 12:40:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2003(UTC) Posts: 77 Location: Singapore, Singapore		Hi! LokSound V4 decoders came in two versions - the DCC version (54400 - 8 pin, 54499 - 21 pin etc) and then they used to have the multi-protocol versions (64400 - 8-pin, 64499 - 21-pin etc) which supported M4 (mfx) apart from DCC/MM/SX protocols. With V5, the company has simplified the product line by creating true multi-protocol decoders - 58410 8-pin - DCC/MM/SX/ M4, 58419 - 21-pin etc. This has enabled the company to simplify its product mix which is good from a product management standpoint for the company as well as dealers because they have fewer SKUs to manage. All M4 decoders are automatically recognized by CS2/CS3 as well as MS2. If the CS2 or MS2 has a very old version of the firmware, the controller may not recognize the decoder and the person will have to upgrade to the latest version for automatically recognizing the M4 decoder (In some cases, the ESU LokSound decoders wont even respond to the Marklin controller if the firmware version is quite old). Cheers, Rajnish
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H0		#7 Posted : 11 March 2020 14:11:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Rajnish LokSound V4 decoders came in two versions - the DCC version (54400 - 8 pin, 54499 - 21 pin etc) and then they used to have the multi-protocol versions (64400 - 8-pin, 64499 - 21-pin etc) which supported M4 (mfx) apart from DCC/MM/SX protocols. The LokSound V4 only came in multi-protocol versions: with three protocols (DCC/MM/SX) and with four protocols (DCC/MM/SX/M4). And IIRC the latter was a bit more expensive. Originally Posted by: Rajnish With V5, the company has simplified the product line by creating true multi-protocol decoders - 58410 8-pin - DCC/MM/SX/ M4, 58419 - 21-pin etc. So you are saying that Märklin do not offer "true multi-protocol decoders". Originally Posted by: Rajnish All M4 decoders are automatically recognized by CS2/CS3 as well as MS2. If the CS2 or MS2 has a very old version of the firmware, the controller may not recognize the decoder and the person will have to upgrade to the latest version for automatically recognizing the M4 decoder (In some cases, the ESU LokSound decoders wont even respond to the Marklin controller if the firmware version is quite old). The problem is the faulty firmware of the MS2. The decoders work fine with MS1 or CS1 because those have had a correct mfx implementation for several years now. The MS2 also needed new firmware for the mfx+ decoders by Märklin.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kiwiAlan		#8 Posted : 13 March 2020 09:57:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,224 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: river6109 Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz It can be any decoder (Loksound, Lokpilot, XL decoders) as long as it has the M4 protocol enabled. Dave, I rang ESU in the end and it has to be the M4 V 4.0 sound decoder but with the V 5.0 it is already automatically included and you don't have different options. John Provided you do not purchase the v5.0 DCC which is a DCC only decoder.
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H0		#9 Posted : 13 March 2020 10:30:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Provided you do not purchase the v5.0 DCC which is a DCC only decoder. There is no DCC-only or non-mfx version of the V5 LokSound decoder. There are two DCC-only versions of the V5 LokPilot decoder. Not suitable for analogue AC operation, so not really appropriate for three-rail customers.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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river6109		#10 Posted : 13 March 2020 15:04:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,782 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		The Loksound V 5.0 has only one description and it recognizes all system under the ESU protocol, where as the Loksound V 4.0 had various version of it including the M4. John
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Surge		#11 Posted : 03 November 2020 17:22:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed. Thanks in advance...
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kiwiAlan		#12 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:06:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,224 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Surge Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed. Thanks in advance... Under mfx they will only have 16 functions. Even if you upgrade the decoders to the most v4 software I don't think you get more mfx functions. to get the 25 functions you will need to run them as DCC locos.
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Surge		#13 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:28:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: Surge Perhaps someone here can help me with this: I have a couple of locomotives with an ESU XL (v4.0 and v4.1) - they are automatically read by my CS3, but it only reads 16 functions. According to the locomotive manufacturer, they have 25 functions. When I try to change the number of functions using Edit Locomotive in the CS3, 16 is greyed out and can't be changed. Thanks in advance... Under mfx they will only have 16 functions. Even if you upgrade the decoders to the most v4 software I don't think you get more mfx functions. to get the 25 functions you will need to run them as DCC locos. Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3?
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H0		#14 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:31:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Surge Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3? Simple solution: Disable mfx in the CS3, register the loco as DCC, then disable mfx in the loco decoder, finally enable mfx in the CS3.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Surge		#15 Posted : 03 November 2020 18:34:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Surge Ok thanks! When I try to add a new loco as a DCC, nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong in the CS3? Simple solution: Disable mfx in the CS3, register the loco as DCC, then disable mfx in the loco decoder, finally enable mfx in the CS3. Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer?
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applor		#16 Posted : 04 November 2020 05:39:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,739 Location: Brisbane, Queensland		Originally Posted by: Surge Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer? No you can change it using your control station with CV adjustment. All in the manual...
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Surge		#17 Posted : 04 November 2020 06:10:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: applor Originally Posted by: Surge Thanks. How do you disable mfx in the loco decoder? Do you need the Lok Programmer? No you can change it using your control station with CV adjustment. All in the manual... Thank you. I guess the correct process is: 1) connect to loco via MFX 2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only 3) turn off MFX in CS3 4) add loco manually as DCC 5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos) Is this correct?
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H0		#18 Posted : 04 November 2020 08:29:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Surge I guess the correct process is: 1) connect to loco via MFX 2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only 3) turn off MFX in CS3 4) add loco manually as DCC 5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos) Is this correct? Feel free to try it, If you manage to disable mfx in step 2 then you can skip steps 3 and 5. I assume you have to do it 1-3-4-2-5.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Surge		#19 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:05:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Surge I guess the correct process is: 1) connect to loco via MFX 2) change CV 47 to enable DCC only 3) turn off MFX in CS3 4) add loco manually as DCC 5) turn on MFX in CS3 (I guess to add future MFX locos) Is this correct? Feel free to try it, If you manage to disable mfx in step 2 then you can skip steps 3 and 5. I assume you have to do it 1-3-4-2-5. So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1). I was able to control the locomotive using DCC after disabling MFX in the CS3; but I have to enable it again to be able to control MFX locomotives. So ideally MFX can be disabled in the locomotive...
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H0		#20 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:16:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Surge So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1). Where don't you see it? I see it in the manual.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Surge		#21 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:37:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Surge So there is no CV 47, at least I don't see it with my decoder (ESU XL V4.0 and v4.1). Where don't you see it? I see it in the manual. In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47...
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H0		#22 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:44:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,344 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Surge In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47... The CS2 only shows a short list of common CVs by default, but there is a "+" button that allows adding more CVs. I assume it is similar with the CS3. On the ESU ECoS or CS1R you just enter the number of the CV you want to change.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Surge		#23 Posted : 04 November 2020 16:57:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/08/2020(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: NYC		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Surge In the locomotive's Configuration page, there is no CV #47... The CS2 only shows a short list of common CVs by default, but there is a "+" button that allows adding more CVs. I assume it is similar with the CS3. On the ESU ECoS or CS1R you just enter the number of the CV you want to change. Ah, ok, I get it now, thanks!
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