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12.3V track volktage - From the CS3+
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Offline morsing  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2020 17:19:59(UTC)
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morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Hi,

Finally got to a stage where I can hook up my Central Station to some track (woot \o/) but am quite puzzled to see 12.3V from the CS3. I thought it should be 19-20V?

Have I missed something? Is this a problem?

Thanks
Henrik

P.S. I'm also slightly confused to see 5V on the sections I have isolated with Marklins little insulators.

P.P.S. Ok, scrap that, I put my meter from "V~" to something called "Auto-V LoZ" and it's 17V now, and 0V on the isolated sections. I obviously don't know how my meter works, off to Google...
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Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2020 17:51:55(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
I use power supply 60061 and it feeds 19 VDC.
In my CS3 it shows same power feeds like power supply.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Copenhagen  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2020 19:36:05(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I suppose that the voltage could easily be lower out on the track depending on your use of feeder wires.

(Henrik... that sounds like a Scandinavian name).
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Offline morsing  
#4 Posted : 05 January 2020 19:42:08(UTC)
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morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
I suppose that the voltage could easily be lower out on the track depending on your use of feeder wires.

(Henrik... that sounds like a Scandinavian name).


I measured it directly from the CS3 as well and it is Scandinavian!
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Back to top
WWW
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 05 January 2020 19:44:06(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
digital track voltage is not sine wave AC, so meters that try to calculate voltage assuming a sine wave shape will not give an accurate result.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline morsing  
#6 Posted : 05 January 2020 19:58:30(UTC)
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morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
digital track voltage is not sine wave AC, so meters that try to calculate voltage assuming a sine wave shape will not give an accurate result.


I've Googled true RMS meter and it should definitely be better than a cheap meter at non-sine wave A/C.

Still not sure why the V~ setting gives such an in-accurate reading.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Back to top
WWW
Offline Copenhagen  
#7 Posted : 05 January 2020 20:04:04(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Just checked on my layout. The CS3 says 19,1 and the meter says 17,7 (on ordinary AC setting).
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Offline morsing  
#8 Posted : 05 January 2020 20:09:39(UTC)
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morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Just checked on my layout. The CS3 says 19,1 and the meter says 17,7 (on ordinary AC setting).


Is that a true RMS meter?
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Back to top
WWW
Offline Copenhagen  
#9 Posted : 05 January 2020 20:23:58(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It's just a cheap meter (called multimeter in my country).
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 05 January 2020 21:43:51(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
digital track voltage is not sine wave AC, so meters that try to calculate voltage assuming a sine wave shape will not give an accurate result.


I've Googled true RMS meter and it should definitely be better than a cheap meter at non-sine wave A/C.

Still not sure why the V~ setting gives such an in-accurate reading.


It is a combination of what Dale said, and the frequency response of the meter, cheap meters have rectifiers with very low frequency capability, and the signals on tracks are much higher frequency.

Another factor is that Marklin controllers have dead time in their outputs to receive the mfx signal from locos. This may also affect the meter reading.
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Offline morsing  
#11 Posted : 05 January 2020 21:58:20(UTC)
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morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

It is a combination of what Dale said, and the frequency response of the meter, cheap meters have rectifiers with very low frequency capability, and the signals on tracks are much higher frequency.

Another factor is that Marklin controllers have dead time in their outputs to receive the mfx signal from locos. This may also affect the meter reading.



Ok, my meter appears to be rated up to 1KHz and Googling DCC says it's 10KHz.
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Back to top
WWW
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