Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC) Posts: 127 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
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Hello Friends I have a plan I want to share with you, hoping that somebody already did what I plan to do (or read about someone who did it). I want for some time now, to enhance the coal (black plastic representation) on the tender of my steamers. The plan is to use Noch Ballast Glue (in reality diluted transparent white glue) and Noch real coal. I am fully aware of the potential danger of excess glue going to the electronics under the black plastic coal representation. I have this covered though (my main hobby is Historical Figure Painting, so, I am more than used on the rules of micro painting and diorama construction). Noch Ballast Glue will be used in extemlly low quantities with micro brushes. I think that real coal on the tender of my steamers will elevate their appearance (and personalize my locos). If I knew that someone did it … I would feel … safer Any input or photos, will be more than welcome. With Best Regards to All Paris |
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-; |
 1 user liked this useful post by ParisTsirchoglou
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Hi, I did it in the past, I used basically the same method as you, diluted white glue, and real pulverized coal, I think it was from a Spanish brand Aneste, but it will be worth any brand, I gave a layer of white glue over the simulated coal of the tender, I put the real coal, and then with a syringe I poured the glue diluted with water and a few drops of dishwasher on the real coal, and that's it. I did it in 2 or 3 locomotives, in the first one I liked the result a lot, in the second not so much and I liked it less in the third one, so I didn't do it again. I show you some photos of one of them, I don't remember if the 2nd or 3rd, the märklin 3684     Best regards |
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 3 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: amartinezv  Hi,
I did it in the past, I used basically the same method as you, diluted white glue, and real pulverized coal, I think it was from a Spanish brand Aneste, but it will be worth any brand, I gave a layer of white glue over the simulated coal of the tender, I put the real coal, and then with a syringe I poured the glue diluted with water and a few drops of dishwasher on the real coal, and that's it. I did it in 2 or 3 locomotives, in the first one I liked the result a lot, in the second not so much and I liked it less in the third one, so I didn't do it again.
Biggest problem there is that PVA (even when watered down) tends to dry with a glossy finish, which is not what you want. But what is the way out of that? Well I haven't tried this idea, but what happens if you put a layer of cyanoacrylate (instant) glue over the existing 'coal' in the tender than sprinkle the coal on top.
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 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,772 Location: New Zealand
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I put real coal loads into my 1 Gauge hopper cars using the contact glue / watered down pva on top solution. Obviously the coal pieces are a bit bigger than what you'd see in H0 (I used large pieces of coal and smashed them up with a hammer with an old towel over the top to stop the pieces flying), but they don't seem to be too shiny with the watered down glue over the top. 
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 7 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Hello This is a BR 41 märklín 3082 with real coal on tender  Best regards |
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 4 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
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Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC) Posts: 127 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
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Dear All.
Thank you very much for your replies and your photos!!!
Did my own testing yesterday on a scrap piece of metal figure base. First I primed with a simple black Vallejo Model Paint. After this dried out, I used Noch Ballast glue to fix some Noch Real Coal. As you all told me, the result was ... shiny!!! (-: After it all dried out, I paint it all with a coat of Vallejo black. The final result ... nice "real coal texture" but way too black and monochrome. More than that ... I don't want to do all this on my precious steamers...
Next test will be done without the white "shiny" glue. I intend to use matt coat (AK Interactive is a good choice) as a "glue". We will see how it turns out.
Anyway all these tests are planed for next weekend.
Thank again for your feedback.
Regards Paris
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Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-; |
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Views messages in topic : 3,997
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Interesting topic, but may I ask... why? Are you striving for greater realism, or is is the fact that coal is used to model coal?
I use black sandblasting material to model HO scale coal (and ash)... |
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 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,262 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz  I put real coal loads into my 1 Gauge hopper cars using the contact glue / watered down pva on top solution. Obviously the coal pieces are a bit bigger than what you'd see in H0 (I used large pieces of coal and smashed them up with a hammer with an old towel over the top to stop the pieces flying), but they don't seem to be too shiny with the watered down glue over the top. Hello David, I admire your efforts to model the prototypical material! It looks great. It has even become media fodder to hold up a real lump of coal in our Australian Parliament (for reasons I will not go into least they become incendiary on this world-wide forum of eclectic opinion !!!  ) :  I thought the proporionate size of your coal pieces in the hoppers (to-scale) looked much the same relative size as the "coal" I sourced from modelleisenbahn providors shown here in the coaling area of my steam servicing facility, so your hammer-upon-towel method seems to meet international standards  :  The models in gauge one look fantastic. Regards for a Merry Christmas, Philip
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 4 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Coal colour also varies depending on which colliery it is mined at , which seam is being used & which country . I have seen coal from the Hunter Valley in Australia which is supposed to be the best in the world for low ash content & low noxious gas content come out of a colliery washery in various shades of black from hard shiney black [ the best type ] to a dirty grey which is used in power stations on a continuous chain grate . So there is no rhyme or reason as to which black to use or even quality is sometimes used for locomotives .
In New South Wales Aust we have 3 main coal fields which have access to the same seams so you would think the coal would be of equal quality . It isn't , the powers that be on the railway hierarchy declared that the Hunter coal was to be used for certain engines , the Illawarra coal & the Western coal was used to be used for different routes . These different supplies gave better or worst steaming production .
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 4 users liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
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Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC) Posts: 127 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
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Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz  Interesting topic, but may I ask... why? Are you striving for greater realism, or is is the fact that coal is used to model coal?
I use black sandblasting material to model HO scale coal (and ash)... Hello Dale If all tests will go well and if I feel happy on the results, I might try it ... just for the pleasure of making my steamers more beautiful. I have some era I Bavarian coal wagons with real coal cargo (straight from Marklin). Well .. the difference between these wagons and the tenders with the plastic coal, is obvious. Anyway, for now I am just experimenting... Thanks for the feedback Everybody. Regards Paris |
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-; |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou  I have some era I Bavarian coal wagons with real coal cargo (straight from Marklin). Well .. the difference between these wagons and the tenders with the plastic coal, is obvious.
The plastic coal doesn't distribute itself around the packaging like the real coal does?
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 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,458 Location: Scotland
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I need coal to keep my two home fires going so considering the price of coal if anybody has any spare fax it over. Thanks lol |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
 2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,772 Location: New Zealand
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So, Flash Dave wants a lump of coal for Christmas.......? Who's been a naughty boy then?
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 5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar  I need coal to keep my two home fires going so considering the price of coal if anybody has any spare fax it over. Thanks lol I tried to fax it through but the weather report said I can't send a fax, its to cold in Scotland, I have to wait for a sunny day. most of my tenders are full of real coal and I have several carriages also carrying real coal., I wished I've seen a suggestion before whereas the modeller used glad wrap in the hopper cars before putting PVA glue into it. John |
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 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,564 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Some of Märklin reproduction of coal is poor so like some of you I glued (using white glue and coal-like black crystals to improve it). On latest metal tenders the coal bunker is plastic and removable, so it is better to remove it before the "operation" Here the result on my latest steamer  Sorry for the poor quality picture. It is extracted from one of my movies Cheers Jean |
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 4 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 636 Location: Brussels
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Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz  Interesting topic, but may I ask... why? Good point. The scale factor means that finely ground coal does not have the same visual appearance as 4-6 inch lumps of steam coal for loco firing. Shininess, reflectance, angularity etc. Plastic or other substitutes are more reallistic at the small scale. The coal inserts used to fill loco tenders and some wagons are not very realistic. Sprinkle a few lumps of loose plastic coal over them to greatly improve the look. Jabez |
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams |
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Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC) Posts: 207 Location: istanbul
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Originally Posted by: Jabez  Plastic or other substitutes are more reallistic at the small scale. The coal inserts used to fill loco tenders and some wagons are not very realistic. Sprinkle a few lumps of loose plastic coal over them to greatly improve the look. I use active carbon used in water filters, it is the real thing, in proper size and gives much more improved look, you can lay a fine layer over the plastic tender coal. Just prepare white glue + water solution to keep the load rigid. Especially handy if you want coal loaded gondolas. Alternatively you can use "grid sand" used for stripping old paint off real ships, they are very much like coal (pitch black and shiny) and come in different sizes (coarse to fine). Talking about gondolas; real fine sand makes perfect load too. C.
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