Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline leesauer  
#1 Posted : 19 August 2019 20:34:12(UTC)
leesauer

United States   
Joined: 24/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92
Location: Sacramento, CA
I'm running using AC C-Track and a CS3+.

I'm trying to install a 72442 Braking Module with a 76495 (Color Light Home Signal with a Color Light Distant Signal). I'm clearly doing something wrong because my train is coming to a power-off stop as soon as it hits the braking section (after the transition section). I am using the wiring diagram for the braking module from the manual for my signal.

76495 Braking Module Wiring Diagram.jpg

I first suspected that I had mixed up the braking and emergency stop wires, but I've checked them, and they are correct. I've also verified with a meter that I have a connection with the plug and the track for each of the three wires coming from the braking section of the braking module (upper right in the wiring diagram) and that I'd correctly attached each to the "B" spade of the track. I also double-checked each of the other wires coming into or out of the braking module.

The one area of confusion I have is regarding the wires going to the 16v power. For powering this I'm using the constant 16v connection of a 6646 transformer. There are two wires being shown going to the 16v power in the diagram: the yellow wire (number 3) coming out of the braking module and the red-green wire coming out of the signal controller (number 6). I couldn't find any documentation telling me precisely how these wires should be connected to the transformer, so I assumed that the yellow wire (number 3) should be connected to the yellow terminal of the transformer and the red-green wire (number 6) should be connected to the brown terminal (the one nearest the yellow terminal) on the transformer.

Have I made correct assumptions here? Assuming I have, does anyone have any suggestions as to where to look to try to figure out what I've done wrong? I've checked the usual suspects and as far as I can tell, I've set things up correctly.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide
Lee Sauer
Sacramento, CA
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 19 August 2019 22:59:49(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,325
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Please check the voltage from the middle output of the 3 "1's" at the top right.
- when signal is green it should be AC
- when signal is red it should be DC (expect around 22 v)

You should first try this while the wire iss NOT connected to the track , in case there is a short occurring out on the layout



You make no mention of the capability of the locomotive you are testing with.

Is it capable of honoring the "DC=Slowdown" behaviour.
If the decoder is theoretically capable, has it been been disabled.
Peter
Offline leesauer  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2019 02:42:05(UTC)
leesauer

United States   
Joined: 24/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92
Location: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Please check the voltage from the middle output of the 3 "1's" at the top right.
- when signal is green it should be AC
- when signal is red it should be DC (expect around 22 v)

You should first try this while the wire iss NOT connected to the track , in case there is a short occurring out on the layout



You make no mention of the capability of the locomotive you are testing with.

Is it capable of honoring the "DC=Slowdown" behaviour.
If the decoder is theoretically capable, has it been been disabled.


Hi Peter,

Thank you for the very quick response. I'll check the voltage of the three "1's".

The loc I'm using for testing is the 2018 Insider Swiss Crocodile (39567). I've made no modifications to the decoder, either physically or via the CS3+, so I don't think that's the issue.

Best regards,

Lee Sauer
Sacramento, California
Lee Sauer
Sacramento, CA
Offline leesauer  
#4 Posted : 25 August 2019 02:12:17(UTC)
leesauer

United States   
Joined: 24/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92
Location: Sacramento, CA
I finally got it working. I was a bit surprised that none of the functions (e.g., turning lights on or off or sounds) worked while the loc was stopped in the braking section while the signal is red. That's a tiny bit disappointing since I'd hoped to have the sound of squealing brakes while the loc was braking, but it is what it is.

Thanks for your help, Peter.

Best regards,

Lee Sauer
Lee Sauer
Sacramento, CA
Offline tayloma  
#5 Posted : 27 August 2019 15:38:55(UTC)
tayloma

South Africa   
Joined: 03/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 156
Location: Boksburg East, Gauteng
Hi Lee

The braking module will supply minimum signal just so that the loco will retain sounds, lights, etc. it is not receiving a pure digital signal so it wont respond to new commands. I have used Viessmann braking modules and still get eth brake squeal upon stopping.
Regards

Mark
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 27 August 2019 16:30:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: leesauer Go to Quoted Post
That's a tiny bit disappointing since I'd hoped to have the sound of squealing brakes while the loc was braking, but it is what it is.
For the vast majority of locos the sound of squealing brakes should come automatically when operating sounds are on without activating any other functions.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline leesauer  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2019 19:07:03(UTC)
leesauer

United States   
Joined: 24/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92
Location: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by: tayloma Go to Quoted Post
Hi Lee

The braking module will supply minimum signal just so that the loco will retain sounds, lights, etc. it is not receiving a pure digital signal so it wont respond to new commands. I have used Viessmann braking modules and still get eth brake squeal upon stopping.


Yes, I'd pretty much come to that conclusion myself, so you've confirmed my supposition. If I can't get the squealing to work with the Marklin modules (of which I've already purchased a bunch), I may give the Viessmann ones a try so see if they give different behavior.

Thanks for the input.
Lee Sauer
Sacramento, CA
Offline leesauer  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2019 19:09:05(UTC)
leesauer

United States   
Joined: 24/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92
Location: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leesauer Go to Quoted Post
That's a tiny bit disappointing since I'd hoped to have the sound of squealing brakes while the loc was braking, but it is what it is.
For the vast majority of locos the sound of squealing brakes should come automatically when operating sounds are on without activating any other functions.



Hmm. That's interesting. I THOUGHT I had Operating Sounds on, but now I'll have to go back and double check. Thanks for the information.
Lee Sauer
Sacramento, CA
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2019 22:24:33(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,157
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: leesauer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leesauer Go to Quoted Post
That's a tiny bit disappointing since I'd hoped to have the sound of squealing brakes while the loc was braking, but it is what it is.
For the vast majority of locos the sound of squealing brakes should come automatically when operating sounds are on without activating any other functions.



Hmm. That's interesting. I THOUGHT I had Operating Sounds on, but now I'll have to go back and double check. Thanks for the information.


I don't know about Marklin decoders, but ESU ones require several things before the brake squeal sound activates ...

1. there is a minimum speed from which the braking is done to activate the squeal sound
2. the motor has to be using momentum control.
3. the speed command from the controller when the loco is travelling at the minimum speed mentioned above has to drop to 0 rapidly, i.e. faster than the momentum control of the loco. This condition should be fulfilled by the braking module.
Offline franciscohg  
#10 Posted : 28 August 2019 23:33:52(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,209
Location: Patagonia
Hello
I find that squealing brakes are hard to get in M locos with default settings even in normal operation. You could check that as suggested.
ESU ones squeeze far more easy and with less "abrupt" commands.
They both work with brake modules.
Here you can see it with an ESU deco and M braking module ( homemade copy...lol )
Regards

UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 29 August 2019 01:08:55(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post

I find that squealing brakes are hard to get in M locos with default settings even in normal operation. You could check that as suggested.


Interestingly Francisco, I find that to be true of some of my Märklin locos but not of others. Some exhibit brake squeal most of time under the proper circumstances, some only part of the time and I have several which have never produced brake squeal, not even one time! I find that very odd and I guess some day I will have to remove the decoders and compare the settings in those which don't work and see how they differ from those which do work properly.

I have a couple of locos which do not normally produce brake squeal but which do so more reliably when the world of operation squeal function is active, even though as I understand it, that should not have any effect when using them in normal operating mode.

Very strange and inconsistent behavior from supposedly identical decoders.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Johnvr  
#12 Posted : 29 August 2019 17:47:53(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,178
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all

With the correct brake squeal settings, you can get the brakes to squeal for a long while.
Here is my Marklin MSD decoder in my Diesel Loco squealing as it approaches the station :

Johnvr Brake Squealing Diesel

In this video, the brake squealing begins well outside the braking section.
The brake section starts is about 1m before the signal.

RegardsBigGrin
John
Offline James Yao  
#13 Posted : 27 May 2020 08:35:55(UTC)
James Yao


Joined: 14/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Please check the voltage from the middle output of the 3 "1's" at the top right.
- when signal is green it should be AC
- when signal is red it should be DC (expect around 22 v)

You should first try this while the wire iss NOT connected to the track , in case there is a short occurring out on the layout



You make no mention of the capability of the locomotive you are testing with.

Is it capable of honoring the "DC=Slowdown" behaviour.
If the decoder is theoretically capable, has it been been disabled.


Hi clapcott,

Greetings from Singapore!

I'm having somewhat similar problems with a 72442 and 76494. I have wired up the setup according to the diagram with the relevant isolation done.

Here's the problem:
1) The loco Br 94 (mfx) stops as soon as it enters the first (green) section. There's a buzzing sound, like a short circuit sound from the loco when it stops.
2) Heeding your advice, I have checked the voltage:
When the signal is red:
Section 1: 0V
Section 2: 15V DC
Section 3: 0V

When the signal is green, it's 0 V across all sections.

I have been trying various methods to troubleshoot but to no avail and hope to leverage on your expertise in this matter to resolve the problem. It's driving me crazy! Confused

Thanks,
James
Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 27 May 2020 19:25:26(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by: James Yao Go to Quoted Post
Hi clapcott,

Greetings from Singapore!

I'm having somewhat similar problems with a 72442 and 76494. I have wired up the setup according to the diagram with the relevant isolation done.

Here's the problem:
1) The loco Br 94 (mfx) stops as soon as it enters the first (green) section. There's a buzzing sound, like a short circuit sound from the loco when it stops.
2) Heeding your advice, I have checked the voltage:
When the signal is red:
Section 1: 0V
Section 2: 15V DC
Section 3: 0V

When the signal is green, it's 0 V across all sections.

I have been trying various methods to troubleshoot but to no avail and hope to leverage on your expertise in this matter to resolve the problem. It's driving me crazy! Confused

Thanks,
James



Hello James,

indeed the connection and cabling of a breakmodule with or wihout a signal is not the easiest one. Maerklin explains in its manual for the 72442 2 methods, the conventional (=analogue) one and the digital one. Which one do you want to use?

Second you can connect it digitally either with a m83 decoder or with a signal with its own deocder inside.

Of course Maerklin published a lot of information about it, but unfortunately only in German.

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

See the section "Lust auf Signale" and then "Folge 5 + 6".

I refer to these articles because they include cabling diagramms too. So they may be helpful for everybody.

Also Maerklin is offering explanation videos for more and more topics about a MRR. One is for installing and cabling break modules.BigGrin



This video is in German too, but you can switch to English subtitles at YT.

Regards

TEEWolf





Offline James Yao  
#15 Posted : 29 May 2020 10:03:49(UTC)
James Yao


Joined: 14/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi TEEWolf,

Thank you for providing the various information. Love It certainly is helpful in helping me figure out the problem.

It turned out that the wires from the "Signal" plugs on the braking module were reversed. I managed to put them in the right order after some trial-and-error. Now the braking behavior is observed with braking sounds too. I also tried with a retrofitted (ESU DCC) Piko Br 218 - it just took off in the braking sections. LOL I guess it's because of the lack of braking command interpretation as mentioned above. But no worries on that one.

All is good now. BigGrin

Cheers,
James
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by James Yao
Offline Daniel Oscar MENDEZ  
#16 Posted : 16 June 2020 01:09:42(UTC)
Daniel Oscar MENDEZ

Argentina   
Joined: 16/06/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Autonoma de Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires
Hello to everybody,

Please, I have few questions about brake module and signals.

I've been having come troubles trying to connect the Brake Module 72442 to the lights signals such as 76495, 76496 and 76497. I've read the brake module has to be connected to a "2 aspects" signal; is that true?

The 76494 has a distance an home signal; what I should do to have ON the distance signal? I have a CS3+.

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

Daniel
Buenos Aires. Arg.
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2020, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.052 seconds.