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Offline ajayrav  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2019 02:50:44(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Hello folks,

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse. It appears that the wheels are not quartered properly either. Should I send it back to Marklin for service? I've attached a video.

Thanks,
Ajay

marklin.MOV (1,408kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
Offline d_landen@yahoo.com  
#2 Posted : 21 July 2019 06:18:37(UTC)
d_landen@yahoo.com

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: West Texas
Hi. I have heard, sometimes the motor is misaligned from the factory. If there is no visible damage or missing pieces, it is possible you could try opening it up. Perhaps reseating the motor is a solution but if you don’t feel comfortable doing this it might be a “warranty claim”. The wheels seem smooth in forward. Does it take high power to get it to move? Any burning smells and does it seem to get heated? I always consult the parts/assembly sheet from Marklin. Perhaps you could spot the issue comparing the loco to this diagram.

I am not familiar with this loco and I could not provide more detailed trouble shooting suggestions. I do know that it is easy to foul something up or drop a part and that would be a nightmare.

Seems it should be working better than it is. I have never done a warranty claim on a Marklin item but that is what it is for. Maybe your vendor would accept an exchange. If you go inside and mess it up, you will have a difficult time getting warranty work. I know you likely waited a long time to get your hands on this new model but another wait may be worth it.

Best wishes. Let us know how it goes whichever solution you pursue.
Offline ajayrav  
#3 Posted : 22 July 2019 17:43:31(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
It actually runs smoothly in reverse as well, albeit with a loud grinding noise. My small steam switcher is noisier in reverse as well, but nothing like this one. It is being shipped back for service.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#4 Posted : 22 July 2019 22:09:44(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse.


Funny you should say that, because my 88962 is also alarmingly noisy in reverse, whilst being very quiet in the forward direction. This is what prompted me to dismantle it and upset the wheel quartering, as lamented in my recent thread.

Like your 88771, the running seems perfectly smooth (even more so now I have "run in" the loco a bit) despite the noise and I have been unable to determine the source of it. I do think it is now quieter than it was when I first got it, though.

Do let us know how this pans out. I suspect you'll be sent a replacement, so it will be interesting to hear if that is quieter or much the same as the original.


Chris
Offline ajayrav  
#5 Posted : 22 July 2019 23:17:05(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post



Do let us know how this pans out. I suspect you'll be sent a replacement, so it will be interesting to hear if that is quieter or much the same as the original.


Chris


Will certainly keep you posted, Chris... This loco has been sold out at the factory for a while, so not sure a replacement will be readily available.

Is running smoothly and quietly in BOTH directions not what to expect from newer Marklin Z???

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2019 22:04:58(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post


Is running smoothly and quietly in BOTH directions not what to expect from newer Marklin Z???



Well it is what I expect but doesn't seem to be what I get! I think the detailing and general look of their products is superb, but I feel the internals are lacking, as is Marklin's quality control.

Emotionally I'm a huge Marklin fan, but I can see rationally there's not much reason to be so!

I'm really keen to get hold of one of the early models as I have the strong suspicion I'd be more satisfied with the running.

I sound very negative - apologies for that!



Chris
Offline ajayrav  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:10:36(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
I think you are being unbiased, Chris... and calling things as you see it. I too believe that Marklin's detailing is superb and with the advent of their coreless motor, the locos don't sound like vacuum cleaners on PCP anymore. From what I've gathered from folks in Germany who deal with Marklin Z, a lot of these are quality control issues at their factory in Hungary... motors not being seated correctly etc. Bottom line: If a loco doesn't run quietly in both directions, it should not pass QC.

That said, I'm amazed that my tiny BR80 tank steam loco negotiates turnouts at slow speed with no hesitation whatsoever.

Lets see what my dealer and Marklin come back with...

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:50:18(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
From what I've gathered from folks in Germany who deal with Marklin Z, a lot of these are quality control issues at their factory in Hungary... motors not being seated correctly etc.


I did notice, during my numerous 88962 disassemblies, that the motor seems to be fixed to the loco chassis with double sided tape. Whatever it is has quite a bit of "give" and there's nothing to align the motor in a specific position. The "give" might be deliberate and I assume the factories have some sort of alignment jig to get the positioning right, but it seems to me there's a large margin for error in both.

My favourite loco in my collection is 0-10-0 (UK nomenclature - apologies if it doesn't translate) 88943 which runs incredibly smoothly and quietly in both directions. The "old" 5-pole motor works perfectly in this model and it is heavy enough to be able to haul 10 coaches around my gradient-laden layout.

Some locos, as you have discovered, do seem to perform surprisingly well - it's frustratingly hard to tell just by looking which they'll be, though!

All the best


Chris
Offline zscalehobo  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2019 18:57:33(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 108
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Hello folks,

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse. It appears that the wheels are not quartered properly either. Should I send it back to Marklin for service? I've attached a video.

Thanks,
Ajay


Did you order in person or via mail? I might suggest to you and others to press your dealer to do pre-shipment test running - this should not leave the dealer's hands if it's that obvious. The dealer should be capable to test immediately prior to shipment and provide buyers with proof of these runs.

About issues with the new motors, while I would say that I am a low volume Marklin Z dealer I have yet to see any bad motors, nor bad runners. While there have been some out of box issues I cut off before sending to customers - none have been related to the actual motors themselves.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline ajayrav  
#10 Posted : 06 August 2019 01:37:05(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
I ordered it mail-order.... I've since shipped it back to my dealer and am waiting for his input....he is currently on vacation, so will know more when he gets back.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline ajayrav  
#11 Posted : 15 August 2019 17:16:27(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
So... my dealer looked at my loco and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. While it does run smoothly in both directions, it was significantly noisier in reverse as seen in the video.

Apparently that is considered good for Marklin. I assumed that locos with the new can motor would run quietly in BOTH dierctions (Like AZL)....maybe I was expecting too much!

A bit disappointed!

Ajay
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 15 August 2019 18:09:43(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,441
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Any gear train runs more noisily in one direction than the other. I would say that you should enjoy the loco and try not to listen to it too much! Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ajayrav  
#13 Posted : 15 August 2019 19:17:16(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Any gear train runs more noisily in one direction than the other. I would say that you should enjoy the loco and try not to listen to it too much! Smile


I agree that gear trains are noisier in one direction. It was just that there was a loud grinding noise in reverse while forward was quiet and smooth, which is documented in the video. I felt that the noise in reverse exceeded what I felt was acceptable. Apparently it is considered par for the course by my dealer, and probably Marklin.... Oh, well.

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#14 Posted : 15 August 2019 19:41:52(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
So... my dealer looked at my loco and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. While it does run smoothly in both directions, it was significantly noisier in reverse as seen in the video.

Apparently that is considered good for Marklin. I assumed that locos with the new can motor would run quietly in BOTH dierctions (Like AZL)....maybe I was expecting too much!

A bit disappointed!

Ajay



I have to say I'm not surprised. Disappointed, like you, and a bit relieved as I have at least one loco behaving similarly and now I know this is "normal".

Acknowledging that gear trains are more noisy in one direction than the other (although I don't understand why this should be) it is telling that some examples of the same model will exhibit this much more than others. There is undoubtedly some variability in the design and I also find it frustrating that you never really know what you're going to get.

I think there is a good chance the noise will reduce with a bit of running in.

Cheers


Chris

Edited by user 16 August 2019 21:19:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline ajayrav  
#15 Posted : 16 August 2019 00:05:11(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
I sure hope it will settle down some with break-in....

Ajay
Offline d_landen@yahoo.com  
#16 Posted : 17 August 2019 02:19:39(UTC)
d_landen@yahoo.com

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: West Texas
You could try the Labelle's 106 z grease, add once, run it and then add more again. Might make a difference.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 18 August 2019 15:49:02(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ajay

The loc is just a little noisy. The noise difference between direction has to do with the motor bearings (pushing or pulling the motor's rotor axially).
Try to lubricate (very little oil, preferably with a syringe)
Bonne chance
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline ajayrav  
#18 Posted : 20 August 2019 23:47:17(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
So the latest twist in this saga is that Marklin wants me to send the loco to their factory in Goppingen to have it checked out. I hope they will be able to address the problem. I'm a little worried that they might check it out and come to the same conclusion as my dealer, that it is OK for a loco to be whisper quiet in the forward direction and have a grinding sound when going in reverse... Will keep y'all posted.

Ajay
Offline d_landen@yahoo.com  
#19 Posted : 21 August 2019 03:46:58(UTC)
d_landen@yahoo.com

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: West Texas
Hello

That is actually good news. If you didn’t go all the way you might regret it and always wonder.

That should give you some satisfaction that they represent their products, even the smallest ones.

The only experience I have with the new motors is the “Kittel”. It is smooth and quiet in both directions. Yours should work the same.

Hope it works out.
Offline ajayrav  
#20 Posted : 21 August 2019 18:37:38(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Agreed! I'm sending it back... Jealous that you have a Kittel... I've been trying to get one, but no dice.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#21 Posted : 29 August 2019 00:29:15(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
So the latest twist in this saga is that Marklin wants me to send the loco to their factory in Goppingen to have it checked out.

Ajay


I'm really pleased Marklin are taking this seriously - I'll be interested to hear the conclusion in due course.

Cheers


Chris
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