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Offline ajayrav  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2019 02:50:44(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Hello folks,

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse. It appears that the wheels are not quartered properly either. Should I send it back to Marklin for service? I've attached a video.

Thanks,
Ajay

marklin.MOV (1,408kb) downloaded 180 time(s).
Offline Zme  
#2 Posted : 21 July 2019 06:18:37(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: West Texas
Hi. I have heard, sometimes the motor is misaligned from the factory. If there is no visible damage or missing pieces, it is possible you could try opening it up. Perhaps reseating the motor is a solution but if you don’t feel comfortable doing this it might be a “warranty claim”. The wheels seem smooth in forward. Does it take high power to get it to move? Any burning smells and does it seem to get heated? I always consult the parts/assembly sheet from Marklin. Perhaps you could spot the issue comparing the loco to this diagram.

I am not familiar with this loco and I could not provide more detailed trouble shooting suggestions. I do know that it is easy to foul something up or drop a part and that would be a nightmare.

Seems it should be working better than it is. I have never done a warranty claim on a Marklin item but that is what it is for. Maybe your vendor would accept an exchange. If you go inside and mess it up, you will have a difficult time getting warranty work. I know you likely waited a long time to get your hands on this new model but another wait may be worth it.

Best wishes. Let us know how it goes whichever solution you pursue.
Offline ajayrav  
#3 Posted : 22 July 2019 17:43:31(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
It actually runs smoothly in reverse as well, albeit with a loud grinding noise. My small steam switcher is noisier in reverse as well, but nothing like this one. It is being shipped back for service.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#4 Posted : 22 July 2019 22:09:44(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse.


Funny you should say that, because my 88962 is also alarmingly noisy in reverse, whilst being very quiet in the forward direction. This is what prompted me to dismantle it and upset the wheel quartering, as lamented in my recent thread.

Like your 88771, the running seems perfectly smooth (even more so now I have "run in" the loco a bit) despite the noise and I have been unable to determine the source of it. I do think it is now quieter than it was when I first got it, though.

Do let us know how this pans out. I suspect you'll be sent a replacement, so it will be interesting to hear if that is quieter or much the same as the original.


Chris
Offline ajayrav  
#5 Posted : 22 July 2019 23:17:05(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post



Do let us know how this pans out. I suspect you'll be sent a replacement, so it will be interesting to hear if that is quieter or much the same as the original.


Chris


Will certainly keep you posted, Chris... This loco has been sold out at the factory for a while, so not sure a replacement will be readily available.

Is running smoothly and quietly in BOTH directions not what to expect from newer Marklin Z???

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2019 22:04:58(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post


Is running smoothly and quietly in BOTH directions not what to expect from newer Marklin Z???



Well it is what I expect but doesn't seem to be what I get! I think the detailing and general look of their products is superb, but I feel the internals are lacking, as is Marklin's quality control.

Emotionally I'm a huge Marklin fan, but I can see rationally there's not much reason to be so!

I'm really keen to get hold of one of the early models as I have the strong suspicion I'd be more satisfied with the running.

I sound very negative - apologies for that!



Chris
Offline ajayrav  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:10:36(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
I think you are being unbiased, Chris... and calling things as you see it. I too believe that Marklin's detailing is superb and with the advent of their coreless motor, the locos don't sound like vacuum cleaners on PCP anymore. From what I've gathered from folks in Germany who deal with Marklin Z, a lot of these are quality control issues at their factory in Hungary... motors not being seated correctly etc. Bottom line: If a loco doesn't run quietly in both directions, it should not pass QC.

That said, I'm amazed that my tiny BR80 tank steam loco negotiates turnouts at slow speed with no hesitation whatsoever.

Lets see what my dealer and Marklin come back with...

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:50:18(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
From what I've gathered from folks in Germany who deal with Marklin Z, a lot of these are quality control issues at their factory in Hungary... motors not being seated correctly etc.


I did notice, during my numerous 88962 disassemblies, that the motor seems to be fixed to the loco chassis with double sided tape. Whatever it is has quite a bit of "give" and there's nothing to align the motor in a specific position. The "give" might be deliberate and I assume the factories have some sort of alignment jig to get the positioning right, but it seems to me there's a large margin for error in both.

My favourite loco in my collection is 0-10-0 (UK nomenclature - apologies if it doesn't translate) 88943 which runs incredibly smoothly and quietly in both directions. The "old" 5-pole motor works perfectly in this model and it is heavy enough to be able to haul 10 coaches around my gradient-laden layout.

Some locos, as you have discovered, do seem to perform surprisingly well - it's frustratingly hard to tell just by looking which they'll be, though!

All the best


Chris
Offline zscalehobo  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2019 18:57:33(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Hello folks,

Just received a new 0-6-0 diesel loco with the new can motor and it runs quietly in the forward direction but very noisy in reverse. It appears that the wheels are not quartered properly either. Should I send it back to Marklin for service? I've attached a video.

Thanks,
Ajay


Did you order in person or via mail? I might suggest to you and others to press your dealer to do pre-shipment test running - this should not leave the dealer's hands if it's that obvious. The dealer should be capable to test immediately prior to shipment and provide buyers with proof of these runs.

About issues with the new motors, while I would say that I am a low volume Marklin Z dealer I have yet to see any bad motors, nor bad runners. While there have been some out of box issues I cut off before sending to customers - none have been related to the actual motors themselves.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline ajayrav  
#10 Posted : 06 August 2019 01:37:05(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
I ordered it mail-order.... I've since shipped it back to my dealer and am waiting for his input....he is currently on vacation, so will know more when he gets back.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline ajayrav  
#11 Posted : 15 August 2019 17:16:27(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
So... my dealer looked at my loco and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. While it does run smoothly in both directions, it was significantly noisier in reverse as seen in the video.

Apparently that is considered good for Marklin. I assumed that locos with the new can motor would run quietly in BOTH dierctions (Like AZL)....maybe I was expecting too much!

A bit disappointed!

Ajay
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 15 August 2019 18:09:43(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Any gear train runs more noisily in one direction than the other. I would say that you should enjoy the loco and try not to listen to it too much! Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ajayrav  
#13 Posted : 15 August 2019 19:17:16(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Any gear train runs more noisily in one direction than the other. I would say that you should enjoy the loco and try not to listen to it too much! Smile


I agree that gear trains are noisier in one direction. It was just that there was a loud grinding noise in reverse while forward was quiet and smooth, which is documented in the video. I felt that the noise in reverse exceeded what I felt was acceptable. Apparently it is considered par for the course by my dealer, and probably Marklin.... Oh, well.

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#14 Posted : 15 August 2019 19:41:52(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
So... my dealer looked at my loco and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. While it does run smoothly in both directions, it was significantly noisier in reverse as seen in the video.

Apparently that is considered good for Marklin. I assumed that locos with the new can motor would run quietly in BOTH dierctions (Like AZL)....maybe I was expecting too much!

A bit disappointed!

Ajay



I have to say I'm not surprised. Disappointed, like you, and a bit relieved as I have at least one loco behaving similarly and now I know this is "normal".

Acknowledging that gear trains are more noisy in one direction than the other (although I don't understand why this should be) it is telling that some examples of the same model will exhibit this much more than others. There is undoubtedly some variability in the design and I also find it frustrating that you never really know what you're going to get.

I think there is a good chance the noise will reduce with a bit of running in.

Cheers


Chris

Edited by user 16 August 2019 21:19:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline ajayrav  
#15 Posted : 16 August 2019 00:05:11(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
I sure hope it will settle down some with break-in....

Ajay
Offline Zme  
#16 Posted : 17 August 2019 02:19:39(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: West Texas
You could try the Labelle's 106 z grease, add once, run it and then add more again. Might make a difference.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 18 August 2019 15:49:02(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ajay

The loc is just a little noisy. The noise difference between direction has to do with the motor bearings (pushing or pulling the motor's rotor axially).
Try to lubricate (very little oil, preferably with a syringe)
Bonne chance
Jean
Offline ajayrav  
#18 Posted : 20 August 2019 23:47:17(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
So the latest twist in this saga is that Marklin wants me to send the loco to their factory in Goppingen to have it checked out. I hope they will be able to address the problem. I'm a little worried that they might check it out and come to the same conclusion as my dealer, that it is OK for a loco to be whisper quiet in the forward direction and have a grinding sound when going in reverse... Will keep y'all posted.

Ajay
Offline Zme  
#19 Posted : 21 August 2019 03:46:58(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: West Texas
Hello

That is actually good news. If you didn’t go all the way you might regret it and always wonder.

That should give you some satisfaction that they represent their products, even the smallest ones.

The only experience I have with the new motors is the “Kittel”. It is smooth and quiet in both directions. Yours should work the same.

Hope it works out.
Offline ajayrav  
#20 Posted : 21 August 2019 18:37:38(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Agreed! I'm sending it back... Jealous that you have a Kittel... I've been trying to get one, but no dice.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#21 Posted : 29 August 2019 00:29:15(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
So the latest twist in this saga is that Marklin wants me to send the loco to their factory in Goppingen to have it checked out.

Ajay


I'm really pleased Marklin are taking this seriously - I'll be interested to hear the conclusion in due course.

Cheers


Chris
Offline ajayrav  
#22 Posted : 24 October 2019 19:50:52(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
So here is an update to the saga... I shipped the locomotive to Germany and Märklin basically returned it without doing anything, as my dealer said they would do. It is unfortunate that Märklin thinks that there is nothing wrong with a motor not correctly aligning with the gears, as long as it runs smoothly. Apparently this is a known flaw with the V36s, with some running perfectly smoothly in both directions and others being very noisy in one direction. Apparently this is the case in a few other locomotives as well, so I will be very reluctant to buy locomotives from Märklin unless they have been vetted and tested. And so it goes....

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#23 Posted : 28 March 2020 22:18:25(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
So here is an update to the saga... I shipped the locomotive to Germany and Märklin basically returned it without doing anything, as my dealer said they would do. It is unfortunate that Märklin thinks that there is nothing wrong with a motor not correctly aligning with the gears, as long as it runs smoothly. Apparently this is a known flaw with the V36s, with some running perfectly smoothly in both directions and others being very noisy in one direction. Apparently this is the case in a few other locomotives as well, so I will be very reluctant to buy locomotives from Märklin unless they have been vetted and tested. And so it goes....

Thanks,
Ajay


By way of contrast, I returned my 88942 for repair recently. It had failed at an exhibition and had damaged the plastic reduction gear. Spares aren't available and I had little hope Marklin would be able to repair it. But repair it they did. It looks like they replaced the entire chassis block (the repair notes aren't very helpful) but they did make the effort to refit the LED light I'd fitted and the repaired locomotive runs beautifully smoothly (if a little noisily in one direction)!

It wasn't a cheap repair, but a lot less expensive than even a second hand locomotive and I am delighted with the outcome.

Cheers


Chris
Offline David2  
#24 Posted : 29 March 2020 14:14:50(UTC)
David2

Netherlands   
Joined: 22/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Zeeland, Vlissingen
The most important thing is will it run after 10 years without much difficulty.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#25 Posted : 29 March 2020 22:00:17(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: David2 Go to Quoted Post
The most important thing is will it run after 10 years without much difficulty.


I'm not even sure I will still be running in ten years!
Offline Zme  
#26 Posted : 30 March 2020 17:40:44(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: West Texas
Hi. That is good news that you had this service available.

Could you tell me, was this service done through a local dealer who sent it to Marklin? Did it take a long time to get it back?

I like that loco, is it a strong puller? Seems it would be.

Thanks
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#27 Posted : 30 March 2020 18:46:49(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: d_landen@yahoo.com Go to Quoted Post
Hi. That is good news that you had this service available.

Could you tell me, was this service done through a local dealer who sent it to Marklin? Did it take a long time to get it back?

I like that loco, is it a strong puller? Seems it would be.

Thanks


This was dealt with directly by Marklin - there is a service "order form" on the website you can fill in to include with whatever you're sending back. I think I was without the loco for about 4 weeks (including the shipping from/to the UK) which I thought was pretty good, especially as I was sent an email saying that turn-round times were unusually long.

These locos are very good pullers - they'll outhaul everything in my collection aside from my Ludmilla diesels and my old (and very heavy) BR216. That was one of the reasons I was keen to have it repaired!
Offline ajayrav  
#28 Posted : 31 March 2020 23:39:41(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Actually, I need to take my words back. After running the loco over a while, it appears that the loco is significantly quieter in the reverse direction, so they clearly did realign something. It always ran super quietly in the forward direction. Marklin really didn't say if they did something or what they did, but while it is still noisier in reverse direction than forward, the crunching is gone. So all's well that ends well and I owe Marklin an apology.

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline ktsolias  
#29 Posted : 01 April 2020 10:10:04(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
For all the Märklin locos HO or Z as well as locos from other manufactures is recommended when new or after a service of the motor or running gear to run the loco for at least 30 minutes each direction.

From my experience I have seen that after this running many problems with noise, bad running disappears of getting better.

May be this is a sort of curing of the mechanical parts, to take the oil better, to give time to the carbon brushes to take the shape of the collector, or even to smooth the gears

Regards

Costas
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#30 Posted : 01 April 2020 22:47:28(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I need to take my words back. After running the loco over a while, it appears that the loco is significantly quieter in the reverse direction, so they clearly did realign something. It always ran super quietly in the forward direction. Marklin really didn't say if they did something or what they did, but while it is still noisier in reverse direction than forward, the crunching is gone. So all's well that ends well and I owe Marklin an apology.

Thanks,
Ajay


As Costas said. locomotives definitely do "bed in" over time. It's a gradual process and you don't notice it happening, but I'm often surprised when I run a loco I've not used for a while that it runs much more smoothly than I remember.

Cheers


Chris
Offline parakiet  
#31 Posted : 05 October 2020 12:25:17(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
I got a screeching V36 as well... oh boy.
Offline ajayrav  
#32 Posted : 05 October 2020 18:53:53(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: parakiet Go to Quoted Post
I got a screeching V36 as well... oh boy.


Is it noisy in both directions? I would send it back to Marklin to get it fixed.... being 'screechy' in one direction is a known issue with the V36.

Thanks,
Ajay



Offline parakiet  
#33 Posted : 05 October 2020 23:21:41(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
only in reverse.
will try to lube it up and see if it gets better..
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