Hi All...

After being an "analogue" person for well over 55 years, I have started to seriously look at how I can incorporate Marklin Digital in my new layout which is currently in the planning stage.

Some members from another thread have suggested that I begin this journey by purchasing a MS2 (#60657), a track box (#60116) and a power supply (#66360). Of course, as a newbie in Marklin Digital, I have tons of initial questions. Here goes,

1. How do I "digitize" my turnouts, signals, etc.? What decoders should I use?
2. What do I do with my old "blue" transformers? Can I continue to use them for lighting?
3. What work do I need to do to connect my k-track to the track box? Is k-track well suited for digital operation?
4. As there are voltage fluctuations in India, what precautions should I take to power the layout?

Surely, I will be bombarding you all with a lot more "digital" questions as we move along.

Take care.

Cheers,
Ranjit

One more thing.

You can't drive your analog roling stock with the MS2, if you got lots of analog lokos, this is important to know.

HI Ranjit!

Yes, the cables on the trackbox comes with spade connectors, so just plug them in. :)

For your other questions, better someone with more knowlage answering them.

I am new to this hobby.

It sounds like you have a big layout Ranjit. :)
I am sorry that I can't answer all your questions, but I am new to this fantastic hobby.
If you gona have 15 lokos on the layout and have 4 to 5 running, maby you need 2 MS2 controllers ore the CS3 after all.
But all depends on your budget.

Hello Ranjit,

a link for digital starters by Märklin and in English too.

https://static.maerklin....7ae8042ed31537193800.pdf

as a first generally information.

This technical tip by Märklin is only in German, but it shows in pictures all track connections, also to K-tracks.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-201.pdf

https://www.maerklin.de/...rrpdb_pi1%5BnoPaging%5D=

and you still can use your M-tracks as well

https://www.maerklin.de/...rrpdb_pi1%5BnoPaging%5D=


Your analogue unchainged to digital locos will run on a digital layout, but only with maximum speed without a possibility to controll them. So you have to be aware that they do not fly off from your layout in curves. Happens pretty quick and can have nasty destroying effects.

Regards

TEEWolf

P.S. I found the Märklin overview brochure for K-tracks

http://www.ccbrailroad.c...nuales/marklin_via_k.pdf

Wirth a large layout I would go for a CS3 Plus. Also buy the Marklin book (03092 I think is the number) this will answer most of your questions.


Take your time and buy the correct items at the start and with help on here all will be well.

Hello Ranjit,

the first picture shows a digital cabeling and usage only for the tracks and a separately (analogue) cabeling for turnouts and lights. For them you still can use your control boxes and your transformers.

In the second picture you see the cabeling for a digital usage of the tracks and digital controlling of turnouts. Then you toggle the turnouts, signals, etc with your controller (MS 2, CS 3) As you see, then you need a decoder (here an old k83 - today it is the m83) for the turnouts. The light is still managed in analogue mode with a transformer. That is in pictures, what @BigdaddyNZ describes in his post.

Perhaps an advantage is, if you get a separate current supply for the light with a transformer, you can use the red rotary button for diming lights. Beside also less digital current is necessary for lights, which is then useable for locos, signals, etc.

Regards

TEEWolf

Hi Ranjit!

Of wat I have read on the ESU ECoS is that it is compatible with märklin, the biggest drawback as I understand it is that it don't have support for MFX+.
And probably lots of märklin lokos will come with this dekoder in the future.

The MS2 and the CS3 is built with the märklin in mind so should work fine, has support for MFX+.
My own experience this far is the MS2, and for me MS2 works grate, but I am no power user yet. But MS2 is easy to set up and learn.

Uhlenbrock isn't somthing I have read upp about, so can't comment on that.

Here is two threds I found here on märklin users net about ECoS and CS3.

https://www.marklin-user...3-Vs-ECOS--Pros-and-Cons

https://www.marklin-user...3-or-ESU-command-station

Ranjit, here are my 2 cents:

The ECoS 50210 is already the second generation of our successful ECoS command station. With the latest ECoS command station, ESU continues to offer state-of-the-art digital technology combined with contemporary functional range and easy handling all this for a fair price-performance ratio.

The ECoS has - like most of the recent central stations - a large coloured display with high resolution. In combination with its ground-breaking and easily operated user interface and excellent contrast values of the coloured screen, ECoS reaches unprecedented ergonomics: unlike all the other central stations, the ECoS can be also operated without a stylus - all symbols and writings are hugely marked and clearly structured.

ECoS has 9 function keys per integrated cab. The light-, and function keys 1 to 8 show the current state of the function via LEDs.

Discover the fascinating possibilities of the ECoS command station on the following pages. But take heed: ECoS performance is so good, that even we had to re-read a few passages to believe it!
ECoS Features

With an ECoS command station you acquire an open system. As is expected of ESU, from the beginning we wanted to be open to, and compatible with, present systems and norms. Just like our decoders, the ECoS is a real multi-protocol command station.

As a multi-protocol command station, ECoS supports DCC, Märklin® Motorola®, Selectrix® and the M4 data protocol. M4 drives and controls locomotives equipped with mfx® decoders without any restrictions. M4 is completely compatible. You can even continue to use almost all of your present loco decoders. ECoS is therefore the only digital command station worldwide that unifies 4 data protocols.

With an ECoS you can run locos: via two integrated cabs with large, easy-grasp motor driven throttle knobs and nine precise click-function keys you control your locos. In combination with the touch screen, you can control up to 20 functions per engine.

ECoS controls turnouts and magnetic accessories: a large, graphical control panel provides you access for up to 1420 turnouts (DCC or Motorola® protocol).

With ECoS you can plan and control routes: simply put turnouts and magnetic accessories graphically in groups and switch them together. Routes will be activated either by feedback contacts or by key. You can even use s88 occupancy detectors or ECoSDetector feedback modules.

With ECoS you can operate shuttle trains very easily: put a rail contact at both ends of the track and ECoS will do the rest.

The ECoS built-in booster has so much power that, in most cases, you don‘t need additional ones.

ECoS supports EcoSlink, a high-speed bus system, based on CAN, that transmits data instantaneously to the command station.

With ECoS, never before has it been so simple to program your decoders: the large, colored TFT screen offers good contrast and displays a lot of information in unabbreviated text. A programming track establishes contact with your decoders.

Of course, the ECoS has a pre-installed DCC RailCom® function: with its „global detector“ it recognizes RailCom®-compatible decoders (e.g. our LokPilot V4.0 decoder) directly on the main track. You also have the possibility to feedback the turnout position via the SwitchPilot to the ECoS command station.

ECoS is compatible. Besides Selectrix®, Märklin®-Motorola®, and M4, ECoS speaks all variants of the DCC-Norm. With the integrated analog controllers (joysticks) you can even control the whistle of LokSound decoders, never before more precisely.

ECoS is expandable. Each ECoS command station sports a network port for connection with a computer. Thus you can update software or use a computer for operation.
Who needs ECoS?

ECoS is basically the command station for all. Beginners, who are looking for a simple-to-operate cab, will be at home right away: the large, graphic touch screen display shows all information in plain text; in case of doubt use the integrated help function. Never was it easier to switch to digital control. And ECoS runs DC or AC driven trains (compatible decoder provided).

Even model railroaders, who alredy own a digital command station, should step up to ECoS: next to the extreme simple inputs, and the possibilities for route-and shuttle train programming, you will learn to appreciate the manifold programming features for decoders. You can connect your present equipment to the input of EcoSniffer, and continue to use it: you don‘t need to discard anything that you want to keep using!

Due to its enormous output-performance, the ECoS command station is recommended especially for operators of Gauge 1 or G layouts: at last you can run multiple trains without an external booster. Total interplay with our LokSound XL V4.0 decoders is matter of fact.

What ever decision you make which system you will finish up with I would recommend to stick with the same system but you also have to consider the costs, Märklin accessories aren't cheap and there are other products on the market which are much cheaper and do the same job., if money is not an obstacle go for Märklin., some have said the ECoS is more consumer friendlier and products are reliable.
if you just buy Märklin locos off the shelf I would recommend the Märklin system and also if you don't do any programming.
If you're handy with converting locos to digital this is a plus if not I always could be of assistance and convert them to a high standard.

John

Blimey John. Do you work for ECOS lol. I will keep it short. If you buy Marklin locos get a Marklin controller.

I did say Ranjit that those with ECOS will jump in quick as a flash. However I cant argue that it is not good as have never used or seen one.

In the end Ranjit it is your choice but if starting in digital try a MS start set. You can add your MS to a CS3 later if you wish to go further.

If you ordered the Märklin book 03092 already (very good and helpful this book) the only choice for you will be a CS 3 or CS 3+. Because it is the Märklin book for a CS 3 and not an ECoS, etc.

I always recommend a CS 3+ because beside the option to attach a S88 directly to the CS 3+, you get the galvanic isolation (important for the CAN bus) inside of your CS 3+. And only by a CS 3 you are able to use the mfx+ format.

And do never forget: this is a Märklin-user forum, not an ESU or Uhlenbrock one. These are different ones.

Well, you can also connect S88 directly to an ECoS, galvanically isolated btw.



This is really interesting, can you please tell just a little more about this ???

Why is the Galvanic isolation important for the CAN bus ???

( Wolfgang you must have this in your archives: you are the champion of useful links )

Per.

Apparently you didn't understand my simple question: Why is the Galvanic isolation important for the CAN bus ???

Per.

I think you will get a lot of links; but no useful answer

Per.

I think / hope this is commonly known; what I would like to know is why it should be important for the CAN bus, as TEEWolf claims:



When TEEWolf recommends people to buy a CS+ based on this, I would like to know why he thinks it is important for the CAN bus

Per.

I understand it, sorry for that. But what will you do, if a king size expert is capturing your thread?

Back to the roots:



If you are using K-tracks or M-tracks you have no choice. You have to take a m83 for turnouts, signals, etc. The m83 is a function decoder for digital solenoid controlled by an impulse. The m84 is a function decoder for switching permanent current on/off. Example: you switch on/off a light. It is like your light switch at home. Whereas the m83 is like a pushbutton, if you want to switch light on/off.

If you are using C-tracks you have the alternative to use a built in decoder under the track into the track bed. You see no decoder and you have no cabeling outside the track bed. Very convenient for carpet railroader.


You have to do the decision, if you want to toggel your devices with your digital controller (eg MS 2) or by a control box. Using the controller you are toggeling your turnout digitally, because you need a decoder for switching. Using a control box than you are toggeling your turnouts analogue still using your blue transformers. The different cabeling plans you see in my post #13 above.



Yes, k-track is well suited for digital and for connection to your track box you use the straight feeder track art# 2292. Link above in my post #13.


This is not only a speciality of India and perhaps a few more countries. The very best and most expensive solution will be a USV (= Unterbrechungsfrei Stromversorgung), an "Uninterruptible Power Supply" (UPS), mainly a batterie and a monitoring system. Even in Germany used for eg computers, hospitals, etc. Perhaps just an real good overload protection may be enough. But you are right, you have to protect your digital appliancies for a current overload.

If your reference is to me, I asked you a question, for which not only I have expressed interest in your answer.

Instead of giving an answer, you posted a full page of useless links, without relevance to
your original statement about the CAN bus and galvanic isolation.

Instead of destroying the thread, you could have given us an answer...........

Per.

Thank you, Wolfgang and David, for your inputs! I am beginning to make headway.

I will go with what you have suggested, David. Like you, I too am a Marklin fan!

David...I am glad you have had some good experience with the CS3+!

By the way, are the m83 decoders for the K-track and signals mounted below the baseboard or above the baseboard?

Cheers,
Ranjit

I don't have a good dealer to purchase the CS3+ from, David. I guess, I will try MSL as suggested by you. Who should I be in touch with over there?

Cheers,
Ranjit

Hello Ranjit,

I bought my CS 3+ at MSL with a 15% discount. It was a perfect deal for me and MSL has a good service as well. For you as a non-EU resident, do not forget to get the refund for the VAT tax, if you order at MSL. Do not bother about this tax ID they want. You do not need it. Just request the deduction of the German VAT from your order. Normally it is like a 15,9% discount to you. (Exceptions e.g. are books they are priced with 7% VAT), because all prices shown on the MSL website are prices including 19% (or whatever) VAT. They have to do this. It is the law in Germany.

But of course, in the opposite you have to pay taxes, custom and what else is required by your home country. But MSL is experienced in VAT refunds. And do not forget to order minimum the 60061 power supply for a CS 3 (60216 or 60226) and the CS 3 Märklin book art #03092 (English version) all in one order. Saves shipping costs.

Shipping costs for India (IN) are by MSL informations

https://www.modellbahnsh...-0-0-gb-0-0/versand.html

will be in Zone 5. It is a basic price of 22,50 €, plus 5,00 € for each Kilogramm. So for 10 Kilogramm you pay 72,50 € shipping costs.

Yes the m83 you can place anywhere it suits you. But think about the cabling, which you must do to your controller or layout power line AND to the solenoid actuator.

Best regards

Wolfgang

Ranjit, just send them an email (website) or if you already have made up your mind purchasing it, fill in the details and buy it and follow David's advice.

with the internet and Paypal its so easy to spend money

John

I have concluded that these days, not only in the model train world, the success of any product relies on the software that is involved.

For a layout to be well controlled digitally, you therefore need good software.
Software in turn, relies on the controller provided a sufficiently rich interface to which the software can talk. That includes the ability to provide sensor feedback from the layout.

The software could be embedded in the controller itself, or it could run on a separate processor such as a PC, the rules are still the same.

The original Intellibox provided a very rich and robust interface. Good software coupled with it produces an amazing system with every possibility imaginable.

Sadly the newer Intellibox no longer supports its older p50b syntax as Uhlenbrock are going towards LocoNet, and the LocoNet method of providing sensor feedback has a major flaw, (but the Intellibox II has a workaround for the issue).

I have not dug into the richness of the interfaces with other controllers, but you can be sure that the quality of the software will be what makes you life either enjoyable, or frustrating.

To know what software you will be happy with, you need to decide how you want to run your layout. For example:

A) Do you want to run using full automation, with the computer setting routes and running the trains?
B) Do you want to control a train with a speed knob and let the computer set the routes and signals etc.
C) Do you want to set turnouts yourself and combine that with B?
D) Do you want to set signals yourself and combine that with C? (Do you even care about signalling?)
E) Do you want to run operational settings with one person manning each station and setting the entry signal plus turnouts to receive trains, possibly using a control desk with push buttons to set such routes?

So, I suggest you decide what type of operations you think you will need, then select software that meets that need, and then see what controllers that software will work on.

Whatever system you select - will work with K-Track. All track types have two electrical poles, and the electrical signal from the controller just needs to be connected to those two poles. No need for special connector rails or boxes.

Galvanizing is used to prevent corrosion (rust).

Stick back to the topic!
Ranjit did asked for help by start digital.

Goofing off again.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation

David is correct. Your translation has let you down. Galvanic has nothing to do with Galvanising

A similar technology is used in many other devices, for example MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) where the input / output are totally separated but the data between the two is achieved by Opto-Isolators. This prevents any possible electrical connection between them.

I really suggest an apology is in order and you should do a little more research before jumping to conclusions ??