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Offline LarsG  
#1 Posted : 29 January 2019 20:22:37(UTC)
LarsG

Norway   
Joined: 29/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Ostfold, Halden
I want to run my superb model of the Vectron 193 (36192) modeled after Railpool/NORTH Rail on my DCC-layout. Unfortunately Märklin did not manufacture this model in a Trix-version, but can I aquire a Trix Vectron (i.e. The Railpool- or the red DB-version) and simple switch the casings?

I will appreciate advice on this as I am eager to get my model running on DCC, and on a Fremo layout.

Best regards , Lars
Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 30 January 2019 04:15:01(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 457
Theoretically yes, but the Vectron casing has been changed during its short life. Some of the earlier designs had two screws, the newer ones have four and added weight. You would have to get a Vectron model with the same specs.

But actually there is no real need. Just buy the Märklin model. It is 2 rail by design. Take it apart and see if it has small wires connecting the power pickups on the boggies. If it has, simply remove the slider, remove the connection wires and move the slider's wire to the soldering pad of one of the wheel sliders. Done, 2 rail version.
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Offline LarsG  
#3 Posted : 30 January 2019 08:06:52(UTC)
LarsG

Norway   
Joined: 29/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Ostfold, Halden
Your info on the Märklin model being 2-rail by design is most interesting. Now, since I have already bought the model, all I have to do is open it and check the wiring - and determine wether the wheels are insulated or not. Thanks! Will get back to this thread and report both findings and actions taken.
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Offline ktsolias  
#4 Posted : 30 January 2019 08:43:10(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 361
Location: Athens
Hi

The procedure in photos

The original 3rail

IMG_19137_resize.JPG

Take of the pick-up

IMG_19144_resize.JPG

Open the truck

IMG_19145_resize.JPG

Desolder the red wire and the black wire

IMG_19151_resize.JPG

Do the same for the other black wires (2 of them one for each truck)

IMG_19163_resize.JPG

Solder the red wire where the black was both trucks for better contact

IMG_19173_resize.JPG

Do the same on the opposite side with the brown wire

Solder the wires as shown in this final photo

IMG_19168_resize.JPG

Close

Run

The decoder is a DCC decoder as well with address 3

Regards

Costas





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Offline LarsG  
#5 Posted : 19 February 2019 14:42:48(UTC)
LarsG

Norway   
Joined: 29/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Ostfold, Halden
Thank you Costas for excellent illustrations and guidance. It shows how simple the re-wiring is done in order to convert the model for 2-rail operation, and I followed it step by step. My model now runs fine!

I am, however, a little puzzled when it comes to reprogram the decoder. Sound- and light functions all work fine, and the address is set to 003 on DCC. I am using NCE Pro Cab, which has a rather easy procedure for programming. But it would seem that the NCE is unable to read anything from the decoder except decoder manufacturer (131). Decoder version, acceleration, short/long adress all return "Cannot read from CV".

The manual states that programming is done either from Control Unit, Mobile Station or Central Station. I have a MS 2, but have no idea how to set i.e. another address or change any CV with MS2 (Not even sure if its possible at all?)

The manual states that the decoder will favour certain protocols before others; 1: mfx, 2: DCC, 3: MM. Can it be that this priority mechanism blocks reprogramming on NCE/DCC? Is the NCE confused by this? :-)

The priority rule can be changed through CV 50. The manual lists different combinations on CV 50, and I am guessing the standard is "15", since "15" allows all the different types of protocols, from analogue AC/DC, mfx, DCC and MM.

Changing CV 50 to 4 will terminate analogue and mfx from the decoders priority list, but will that solve my problem on using NCE? The drawback on using NCE is that is does not follow the NMRA-standard, and that can cause problems on certain decoders.

Thank you so much for your support!

Best regards, Lars
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Offline ktsolias  
#6 Posted : 20 February 2019 09:09:48(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 361
Location: Athens
Hi Lars

I am very happy that I help you to do the conversion.
Keep in mind that in these days more and more Märklin Locos are constructed for 2 rail DC, so there are many other models that can be converted with the same or similar Technic.

For the decoder.
This is an mfx decoder so there no many thinks that you have to do with the MS 2. Of course you can change address, in DCC only, but not any more.

If you really want to alter thinks you need a CS3.

Have in mind that these decoders are locked from the factory..... Only retrofit decoders are fully open.

I do all the modifications using the following equipment:

1. CS 3
2. Decoder tester 60970
3. Decoder programmer 60971
4. mDecoderTool 3 software
5. Soundbibliothek files
All above are Märklin and works with Märklin decoders especially mSD3 or mLD3

With ESU you need different hardware.....etc

Costas
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#7 Posted : 20 February 2019 13:23:39(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 457
It is a multiprotocol decoder, so you are able to program it with a DCC controller, not only the CS3. If you disable mfx in your MS2 it should be able to read and write CVs.

Why your NCE PowerCab is not able to beats me, but since it only speaks DCC your decoder should default to that.

Try with the MS2.
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Offline LarsG  
#8 Posted : 14 March 2019 15:28:20(UTC)
LarsG

Norway   
Joined: 29/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Ostfold, Halden
A brief update on converting and consequently programming the 193 from "3-pickup" to "2-ail-pickup" (Or AC to DC, which we used to say back in the days.. before digital protocols kinda messed up the whole meaning of the established vocabulary :-) )

The locomotive now runs smooth and by the CVs and the address I wanted it to have. The "secret" was indeed that the Trix-decoder in the 193 did not like the NCE, since NCE does not follow the NMRA standard. I have not investigated further what this means in detail, but got some advice that different current in the programming track may seem to be the source of programming difficulties.

From a very reliable source, I was told that putting a 1 kOhm resistor between the rails on the programming track could very well solve the problem. Since my knowledge in electronic engineering is limited as well as a bit dubious, I decided it was time for an upgrade on the command system instead. A drastic as well as a costly desicion compared to the resistor-alternative, but in retrospect a good one. :-)

The Piko SmartControl system allowed me to access and change CVs, and after meticiously writing down all previous values of the CVs I wanted to change before actually changing them, the loco is working like I want it to. Another discovery is that Trix does not support RailCom or RailComPlus, (which is what mfx is to Märklin) but a bit of googling helped finding the right CVs to work.

I must say I am pleased that Märklin engineers products that can be easily converted like this. It allows me to acquire AND run them on my layout, and since I grew up with Märklin the enjoyment also has its sentimental reasons.

Thank you MaerklinLife and Costas again for your helpful guidance!

Best regards, Lars
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