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Offline sjbartels  
#1 Posted : 10 January 2019 23:22:26(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 957
An interesting dilemma. I recently acquired an old new stock, never run, set of 12 tin plate passenger cars in the 00796 set. Running them for the first time, on a straight section of C track, they just seem to derail for no apparent reason. I went ahead and run some other tin plates that I have and the same thing occurred. After this I ran my same style Rheingold tin plate cars and there was no issue. Bogeys and wheel sets are all the same. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 10 January 2019 23:32:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Bogies not catching on underframe?

Couplings not catching on buffers? Couplings centring properly?

Do the wheels rotate freely? Have you lubricated them?

Can't think of anything else I have seen do something similar to that symptom Sancho.

MrB32  
#3 Posted : 10 January 2019 23:38:15(UTC)
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Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 284
too many beers maybe?
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 10 January 2019 23:41:23(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,331
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Do they derail on the first straight track after coming out of a curve, or at any point on a long straight section?

If it's immediately after a curve it will probably be due to buffer or coupler locking. Run the offending wagons slowly and see where the problem occurs.

If the derailment occurs in the middle of a long straight and the train is being pushed look out for the couplers jamming over to the sides. If the train is being pulled I can only think that there is something wrong with the track...
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline sjbartels  
#5 Posted : 11 January 2019 00:04:31(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 957
They’re being pulled and it’s on a straight section. I thought about the track, but it’s fairly new C track, and other cars, including my Rheingold tin plate set, don’t have an issue in the same space. It’s the outer wheel that seems to just “slip off”. The puzzling part is my never run 00796 do it, my old 60’s that I ran do it, yet the Rheingolds don’t. It’s quite perplexing
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
Offline mbarreto  
#6 Posted : 11 January 2019 00:20:03(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844

Just for I understand the situation, can you please explain what is the outer wheel of a coach on a straight?
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline sjbartels  
#7 Posted : 11 January 2019 00:53:53(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 957
I’ve always called the wheel closest the coupler the outer wheel and the other wheel the inside wheel. Don’t know why I started doing it. But I di
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by sjbartels
MrB32  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2019 10:02:21(UTC)
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Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 284
too many beers aside... :)

I am sure you know the drill. Nevertheless: "Never run" doesn't guarantee a good alignment of couplings, neither does it prevent wheels from becoming dislodged. Something could have happened during transport or storage, or even handling when they were taken out of their boxes to be looked at/shown/photographed etc.

I would take a coach and push it slowly over the section starting upstream (it could be that something happens in a curve or over a point before the straight section), you should feel any obvious sudden changes of levels in the track that might cause the derailment to start, and address that.

If your track is nice and even, then I would get my 7001 coupling gauge out and proceed by elimination one coach at a time. I had written a little 101 about this type of coaches and couplings which can be found here: https://www.marklin-user...e-coaches-and-wagons-101

I hope this helps.
Offline SteamNut  
#9 Posted : 11 January 2019 11:11:13(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 457
I agree with the coupling gauge. It could be the bottom of the coupler is hitting one of the center studs or when the cars are coming off a curve they are jamming together.
Offline Mark_1602  
#10 Posted : 11 January 2019 21:44:29(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Hi,

How many are derailed when you run a train with six tin plate coaches? One, two, or all of them?

Take out the wheel sets of the derailing cars and replace them. I guess you have other cars with the same type of wheels in your collection. Do the passenger cars still derail after you've done that? If not, there might be something wrong with the wheel sets. Actually, your post made me think of a warranty case I had last year. I bought a freight car set and noticed that two of the wheel sets looked wrong as something had gone wrong during production. I sent them back to Märklin and received new ones.

Best regards,

Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline Minok  
#11 Posted : 11 January 2019 21:58:59(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Id check the wheel spacing (gauge) as well.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 11 January 2019 22:04:29(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 469
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Just a shoot in the dark:
- tin plate cars boggies sometimes are too wide and some axles may not stay in place so check they are all in place, rotating freely
- check the axle inter-flange distance by comparing with a recent Märklin axle
- check than no flange parts are missing on all axles
- Check also the couplings as a low coupler may get stuck with "Pukos" (contact studs).

Normally a fairly new straight C track fully clipsed offers a nearly perfect geometry far better than the M track for which these cars were made. A Visual inspection is helpful (no one walked on the tracks
I can't see anything else

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline Mark_1602  
#13 Posted : 12 January 2019 13:00:55(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: sjbartels Go to Quoted Post
An interesting dilemma. I recently acquired an old new stock, never run, set of 12 tin plate passenger cars in the 00796 set.
Thanks


Did you get them from a private seller? The previous owner might have been a DC user who substituted the wheel sets. That's not very likely, but you should still check it. Derailing is to be expected if DC wheel sets are used on C-track.

I don't think your problem is due to the tracks. It must either be the wheel sets or the bogies, though I would also verify that the metal Relex couples are not bent upwards or downwards.

Best regards,

Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline sjbartels  
#14 Posted : 13 January 2019 22:51:50(UTC)
sjbartels

United States   
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 957
Finally sat down this afternoon to work on this problem a little bit more. I got out my 7001 and sure enough, some were a little off. Ive adjusted two so far that were giving me a problem and the issue appears to be resolved - so I'm going with the coupler sitting too low as the cause of the problem

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions!
American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by sjbartels
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