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Offline QQQ1970  
#1 Posted : 02 September 2018 13:08:44(UTC)
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QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Ontario, Toronto
2018 Fall New Item. Does it come with 1 or 2 motors?

For those of you who have Crocodile, does 1 or 2 motors make a difference in running characteristics?
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 02 September 2018 13:44:18(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

According to the description it comes with one motor - like all the other from the same mould before. Three powered axles.
All my crocs (Roco and Märklin) only have one motor. I have some other models with two motors and I do not think that two motors improve the running characteristics, but that is largely opinion-based.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Alfa V8  
#3 Posted : 02 September 2018 14:20:21(UTC)
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Alfa V8


Joined: 20/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 211
Location: , Mpumalanga, South Africa
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
2018 Fall New Item. Does it come with 1 or 2 motors?

For those of you who have Crocodile, does 1 or 2 motors make a difference in running characteristics?


It has two motors, one in each engine unit, which drives by gearbox down to the center axle, the wheels on the driven axle are equipped with rubber tires, the drive to the other driving wheels is through the side rods. It weighs 402.5 gram and has a draw bar pull with both units slipping of 95 gram and runs nice and smooth to my eyes. I do not have a crock fitted with a high efficiency 5 pole motor in one engine unit but I have one fitted with the old large C sine motor fitted in one engine unit. The C sine motor fitted unit drives through a gear train to all three axles, the outer four wheels are fitted with rubber tires. The C sine Crock weighs 511.0 grams and has a draw bar pull of a 110 gram, it runs just as smooth as the one with two motors but has a lower minimum speed than the new Crock.BigGrin

You could have a look at it and its twindrive mechanism at the link below

https://www.flickr.com/p...albums/72157695021351090

Regards

Hannes
Every day provides new opertunities. H0 mostly Marklin, still using my 6021, LGB in Gauge 1, live steam in larger gauges.
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Offline Herrfleck  
#4 Posted : 02 September 2018 15:37:42(UTC)
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Herrfleck

Sweden   
Joined: 08/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by: Alfa V8 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
2018 Fall New Item. Does it come with 1 or 2 motors?

For those of you who have Crocodile, does 1 or 2 motors make a difference in running characteristics?


It has two motors, one in each engine unit, which drives by gearbox down to the center axle, the wheels on the driven axle are equipped with rubber tires, the drive to the other driving wheels is through the side rods. It weighs 402.5 gram and has a draw bar pull with both units slipping of 95 gram and runs nice and smooth to my eyes. I do not have a crock fitted with a high efficiency 5 pole motor in one engine unit but I have one fitted with the old large C sine motor fitted in one engine unit. The C sine motor fitted unit drives through a gear train to all three axles, the outer four wheels are fitted with rubber tires. The C sine Crock weighs 511.0 grams and has a draw bar pull of a 110 gram, it runs just as smooth as the one with two motors but has a lower minimum speed than the new Crock.BigGrin

You could have a look at it and its twindrive mechanism at the link below

https://www.flickr.com/p...albums/72157695021351090

Regards

Hannes




Hello!

The question is not about the Insider model. It is about 39568!!
I think it is like Tom mention in preview post. It is most likely 1motor?
All earlier Ce 6/8 111 are made with 1 motor.
I have crocodiles with 1 motor and with 2 motor.
Both modells runs good.
But I have a Ae 8/14 with 2 motor and it runs not perfekt.
And I have a V188 with 2 motor and it runs perfekt .

Regards

Bertil.
- since my lack in english I don't write so much here.. but learn by trying right? :) -

//Bertil
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Offline torhb  
#5 Posted : 02 September 2018 16:03:39(UTC)
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torhb


Joined: 08/11/2001(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Oppegård,
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
2018 Fall New Item. Does it come with 1 or 2 motors?

For those of you who have Crocodile, does 1 or 2 motors make a difference in running characteristics?


Hi,

Does the description say it has two motors ?

No ?

Then it obviously has only one motor. Märklin always mentions any extras in the models.

Regards
Tor
Tor Harald Bøhler
Oppegård, Norway
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Offline Bart  
#6 Posted : 02 September 2018 17:37:25(UTC)
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Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: torhb Go to Quoted Post

Does the description say it has two motors ?
No ?
Then it obviously has only one motor. Märklin always mentions any extras in the models.


I concur with your observation.
However, AFAIK, they changed to 2 can motors in 2013, with 37565, 37566 and all subsequent models.
I would be highly surprised if they would change back to the old 1-motor setup now.

*Bart
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 02 September 2018 19:02:46(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post
However, AFAIK, they changed to 2 can motors in 2013, with 37565, 37566 and all subsequent models.
I would be highly surprised if they would change back to the old 1-motor setup now.
A few years ago they made a new mould with two motors.
Now they make a re-run of the old mould that always had just one motor.

No change back - two completely different prototypes, two completely different models.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 02 September 2018 19:55:56(UTC)
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Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,396
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Bart Go to Quoted Post

However, AFAIK, they changed to 2 can motors in 2013, with 37565, 37566 and all subsequent models.

May I humbly point out that you are talking about two completely different types/prototypes of "crocodiles"?

The Marklin models featuring two can motors follow the SBB prototypes called Be 6/8 II and Ce 6/8 II (with the slightly complicated looking rod mechanism plus "Blindwelle").

The first Marklin H0 models that were produced (including the vintage CCS 800 / 3015) and also the brown model just announced this autumn all are built according to the Be 6/8 III or Ce 6/8 III prototypes featuring the simplified and more efficient "Winterthurer Schrägstangenantrieb". These Marklin models only have one motor in one of the articulated front power elements.
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Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 02 September 2018 20:19:25(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,610
Location: United Kingdom
39568 will be one motor in truck and sound unit in other truck the same as 39565.

Different class class 'Ce 6/8 III' have one motor and class 'Ce 6/8 II' have two motors.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 03 September 2018 01:35:36(UTC)
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dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,694
Location: Crozet, Virginia
So is Märklin really introducing a new loco with Sine Propulsion? I was away from Märklin for a long while and had never seen that drivetrain before, but I do have the compact C-Sine in a DB Class 01. It pulls ok but the speed is slow and it is not impressive. But from some of the things that I have read I thought that all of the sine variants flamed out long ago.

I have an old 3356 Croc with a dcm power unit and it pulls like a mule, even with the primitive motor and just three axles powered. I also have two of the newer (2014) crocs with two small can motors and they pull very well even though they weigh less than the dcm classic. So it is kind of a wash with the advantage IMO going to all of that dcm torque!
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 03 September 2018 08:05:34(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
So is Märklin really introducing a new loco with Sine Propulsion?
Nowadays the 39xxx numbers indicate the loco has "if it's good enough for Märklin then it's good enough for you"-propulsion.
There is no indicator it will have C Sine propulsion. It could be a re-run with the c90 motor, it could have a new truck with a can motor.
The link to the explosion diagram is not working yet ...

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ktsolias  
#12 Posted : 03 September 2018 08:46:39(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 611
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
So is Märklin really introducing a new loco with Sine Propulsion? I was away from Märklin for a long while and had never seen that drivetrain before, but I do have the compact C-Sine in a DB Class 01. It pulls ok but the speed is slow and it is not impressive. But from some of the things that I have read I thought that all of the sine variants flamed out long ago.

I have an old 3356 Croc with a dcm power unit and it pulls like a mule, even with the primitive motor and just three axles powered. I also have two of the newer (2014) crocs with two small can motors and they pull very well even though they weigh less than the dcm classic. So it is kind of a wash with the advantage IMO going to all of that dcm torque!


Märklin stopped the production of models with C-sine motors some years ago. There were a lot of problems with these motors (power consuption, realiability, cost etc) despite their excellent running characteristics.
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2018 08:56:52(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post

Märklin stopped the production of models with C-sine motors some years ago. There were a lot of problems with these motors (power consuption, realiability, cost etc) despite their excellent running characteristics.


That was years ago Märklin did stoped C-sine motor.
The new crocodile has five pole motor like c90 and the third generation mfx+ sound decoder.
But i find the prices are little too high for the old style model.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline ktsolias  
#14 Posted : 03 September 2018 09:33:59(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 611
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post

Märklin stopped the production of models with C-sine motors some years ago. There were a lot of problems with these motors (power consuption, realiability, cost etc) despite their excellent running characteristics.


That was years ago Märklin did stoped C-sine motor.
The new crocodile has five pole motor like c90 and the third generation mfx+ sound decoder.
But i find the prices are little too high for the old style model.


I agree that the price is too high in comparison with the Insider 2018 croco, wich has two motors, servo controled pantograph and the new TELEX couplers.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#15 Posted : 03 September 2018 14:35:52(UTC)
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dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,694
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

That was years ago Märklin did stoped C-sine motor.
The new crocodile has five pole motor like c90 and the third generation mfx+ sound decoder.

I assumed that the C-sine motors were dead, but wondered because Steven compared this model to the 39565, which had that propulsion system. I imagine that Märklin has adapted that old chassis to use a newer and cheaper can motor, but as Tom pointed out there are no diagrams posted online yet.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

But i find the prices are little too high for the old style model.


I agree Anders - that price is way too high. I can buy a new Insider 39567 right now for the same cost as Märklin's full retail price for the 39568, which makes no sense to me. I thought that this model might be intended as a more entry level croc after the expensive Insider loco, but now I just think that it is a really bad deal.
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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