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Fleischmann stops H0 production at the end of this year. - Another MRR brand dies Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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kweekalot		#1 Posted : 02 March 2018 16:05:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,437 Location: Holland		I just saw this on a German forum: The ‘Modelleisenbahn Gruppe’ is going to relocate their production from Gloggnitz-Austria to Slovakia. This will lead to a reduction of 52 of the 107 employees by the end of 2018. And also; Fleischmann H0 will no longer be available from 2019. I think this is really sad. Fleischmann was one of the major brands when I was a kid. https://www.ots.at/press...n-die-slowakei-verlagert Edited by moderator 04 March 2018 20:05:43(UTC)  | Reason: Changed title
		https://forum.trix.express
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GlennM		#2 Posted : 02 March 2018 17:14:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,886 Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England		It is very sad
		Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Carim		#3 Posted : 02 March 2018 17:18:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 653 Location: London		Yes, really sad news. Does this also mean that Roco HO will no longer be produced? Carim Edit: I can answer my own question after reading the article! Looks like Roco have more modern kit for HO, so I guess that it will be the Group's HO brand.
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Joe Meiring		#4 Posted : 02 March 2018 17:32:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 106 Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town		How very sad.....as a schoolboy in Cape Town there was always great rivalry between Fleischmann and Marklin.....there was a hobby shop nearby that had a great window display of a F layout, and not too far away one with a M window display..... we spent many hours drooling over these wonderful layouts.... 😞😞😢
		Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver....
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RayF		#5 Posted : 02 March 2018 18:07:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,839 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Looks like it continues under the Roco label. Maybe the name will be resurrected in the future.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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steventrain		#6 Posted : 02 March 2018 18:09:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Bad news for 2-rail German modelling.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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franciscohg		#7 Posted : 02 March 2018 18:45:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,274 Location: Patagonia		And 3L also, i have a small number of locos, and they run great. Perhaps i will have to go for the 2018 S10
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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rmsailor		#8 Posted : 02 March 2018 18:47:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 570 Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife		Possibly just a further rationalisation. Fleischmann are already the n-gauge producers for the group. Hopefully models will be moved to the Roco brand. Bob M.
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skeeterbuck		#9 Posted : 02 March 2018 18:50:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC) Posts: 523 Location: Maryland, Baltimore		Yes, this is sad news indeed for the Fleischmann fan. Let's look on the bright side, at least it not our beloved big M. Chuck
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Goofy		#10 Posted : 02 March 2018 19:50:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I was expecting that soon or later will a producer like Fleischmann do have problem with the market. In fact do Fleischmann produce nice steam locomotive but they still confuse change to better offer for the customer like digital functions. There is no smoke generator and it make lesser interesting to put money on the Fleischmann when Märklin/Trix/Brawa or ESU is more fun to play with it.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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PhillipL		#11 Posted : 02 March 2018 20:57:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 123		Wow, this is a very sad day. I loved their freight and passenger cars. I got first Fleischmann locomotive back in the late 1960s! I really think ramping up production in Vietnam (according to the article) will cause even more quality issues (I have had several issues with recently purchased ROCO products made there).
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David Dewar		#12 Posted : 02 March 2018 23:43:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Not good to see any manufacturer go. However it is important that those who remain pick up FL customers to keep the hobby going. Maybe there are too many trying to get business from fewer customers. Marklin has the advantage of 3 rail which in my view is better than two and they must do well with track sales. I see Lippe had special offer on which were in respect of the lesser manufacturers so maybe more smaller companies are finding things difficult. The hobby is not cheap and it is important to keep up decent quality. I think we need more youngsters coming into the hobby but that is looking unlikely.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Minok		#13 Posted : 03 March 2018 00:02:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		The article indicates that the majority of the casting will be relocated from Austria to Slovakia, out of cost reasons, implying some small amount will stay in Austria. The other part is it indicates a "cleaning/refactoring of the brand portfolio" : The German brand Fleischmann will stop being offered in H0 beginning 2019, only in scale N going forward, where they are market leader. So the company wants to focus the Roco brand on H0, and Fleischmann on N gauge/scale.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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RayF		#14 Posted : 03 March 2018 00:08:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,839 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		I'm sure it has been said before, but 'model railways' is becoming more and more a specialised minority hobby. Gone are the days when every child would aspire to see a train set in their Christmas stocking! Children still see it as a toy to play with, but are too distracted by an ever increasing array of electronic games and toys to make it their number one toy. Parents will accordingly be less likely to spend significant sums on what are becoming very expensive toys for young kids. I see a future when the hobby will be served by a small number of specialist manufacturers producing high quality trains in small numbers for increasingly older adults.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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5HorizonsRR		#15 Posted : 03 March 2018 00:24:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,865 Location: CA, USA		I think this is a sad moment, but in practicality won't change a lot. They still own the molds and (I assume) there are still takers for those models. so I'm sure they will be available, just marketed under the Roco name. This has to save a lot of marketing, packaging, and database/parts reference expense. If that helps keep the group in business and the models available, then I'm all for it.
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sjbartels		#16 Posted : 03 March 2018 03:43:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/08/2015(UTC) Posts: 1,091		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR I think this is a sad moment, but in practicality won't change a lot. They still own the molds and (I assume) there are still takers for those models. so I'm sure they will be available, just marketed under the Roco name. This has to save a lot of marketing, packaging, and database/parts reference expense. If that helps keep the group in business and the models available, then I'm all for it. I agree. Just think also of the duplication that was probably happening between Roco and Fleischmann, using the same moulds between both. If they truly focus on Roco HO and Fleischmann N scale, then I don't think there is going to be any loss overall per so. Why have two brands basically dividing your customer base. Sure in the grand scale losing a brand is never good from a perception basis, but they are owned by the same parent so overall aside from the name, I don't think as a hobby we'll lose anything here. If anything, packaging it as Roco HO and Fleischmann and streamlining is going to make the whole as a whole more attractive to a potential buyer
		American by Geography, Australian by Birth. I am an original Ameristraylian
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MaerklinLife		#17 Posted : 03 March 2018 05:52:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		This is no different than the original plan when Roco bought Fleischmann. Initially the Modelleisenbahn Gruppe wanted Roco to focus on H0 and Fleischmann on N. Then Fleischmann ended up with more and more H0 anyway, and now they are going back to the original plan. I think it is a good thing that they tighten up their plan and focus. That being said it does not matter much. Roco and Fleischmann is a sticker that you slap on a box of products coming from the same assembly line and developed by the same people. Just like Trix is a sticker that you slap on a box of neutered Märklin locomotives... Oddly I thought Trix was the market leader in N. Oh well...
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Chook		#18 Posted : 03 March 2018 06:37:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/08/2012(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Perth, Western Australia.		Perhaps this is the reason for Marklin announcing their discontinuing the Fleischmann turntable? Regards...............Chook.
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Goofy		#19 Posted : 03 March 2018 08:23:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Chook Perhaps this is the reason for Marklin announcing their discontinuing the Fleischmann turntable? Regards...............Chook. Not really sure. When Fleischmann was bankruptcy Märklin did still produce turntable. Märklin do have license to produce copy after Fleischmanns turntable. Roco did perhaps ended up the license?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#20 Posted : 03 March 2018 08:50:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Carim Does this also mean that Roco HO will no longer be produced? In the past few years all Roco N was moved to Fleischmann. Fleischmann kept some era III and earlier H0 stuff, but modern H0 was already moved to Roco - and it seems some moulds were shared between the companies. Roco H0 comes with Roco couplers and often with bags of small parts that have to be mounted by the customer (which can be annoying). Fleischmann H0 comes with Fleischmann couplers and usually there are no parts to be mounted by the customer (one thing I like about Fleischmann). Sad news, but the Fleischmann moulds will survive and the models will come in Roco boxes. In the worst case they will now come semi-assembled...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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steventrain		#21 Posted : 03 March 2018 14:11:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Press statement from Modelleisenbahn Holding GmbH >PDF< German only.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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jcrtrains		#22 Posted : 03 March 2018 19:22:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 597 Location: Toronto, Ontario		Very sad. I will have to get the new E 52 as this may be the last new mould. Edited by user 03 March 2018 23:01:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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kiwiAlan		#23 Posted : 03 March 2018 21:14:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: Chook Perhaps this is the reason for Marklin announcing their discontinuing the Fleischmann turntable? Regards...............Chook. Not really sure. When Fleischmann was bankruptcy Märklin did still produce turntable. Marklin may have had a warehouse stocked with them, which would allow them to continue selling them. Originally Posted by: Goofy Märklin do have license to produce copy after Fleischmanns turntable. Roco did perhaps ended up the license? Did Marklin have a license to produce it? I doubt they would, otherwise why use the Fleischmann one. More likely is that Roco communicated, probably as long as a year ago - maybe even longer, to Marklin that they were no longer going to manufacture the Fleischmann HO items to allow Marklin to run down any stock they had, and design their own replacement. Such a notification period would probably have been a clause in whatever supply contract existed.
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vilithejou		#24 Posted : 03 March 2018 22:38:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 840 Location: Vic, Barcelona		The next year we will have a new Roundhouse fron Marklin new design in C-track and sound module... in catalog 2017/2018 the roundhouse dosen’t appears
		Joan Vilarrúbia vilithejou@yahoo.es Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
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GaryTrooper		#25 Posted : 04 March 2018 00:51:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 392 Location: Hailey, Idaho		Originally Posted by: David Dewar I think we need more youngsters coming into the hobby but that is looking unlikely. I wish I could get my kid off the computer and setup a layout. Her comes in and looks at my simple layout once in a while, says "great dad" and goes back to his computer.
		G - LGB O - Lionel and MTH HO - Marklin N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Troy Yang		#26 Posted : 04 March 2018 03:29:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2003(UTC) Posts: 356 Location: San Francisco, California USA		Very sad indeed. RIP Fleischmann HO trains.
		Marklin HO - all eras and everything.
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Eurobahnfan		#27 Posted : 04 March 2018 16:32:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 410 Location: Stockton, CA		My first exposure to European trains came from a Fleischmann catalog back in the 70s (and I still have it). When I returned to the hobby, I initially went with N scale, and Fleischmann was the brand I sought out, with a few pieces from Arnold as well. Moving into HO and Maerklin, I still found the Fleischmann items to be well made and worth purchasing. I haven’t bought much new product from any particular manufacturer for a few years now, mainly due to increasingly higher prices, but this is sad new indeed. I can only wonder, as have others here, what the future of our hobby will be as more and more manufacturers scale back production or go under altogether — with the remaining relative few concentrating on product that is increasingly beyond the reach of potential enthusiasts.
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Goofy		#28 Posted : 05 March 2018 21:15:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Did Marklin have a license to produce it? I doubt they would, otherwise why use the Fleischmann one. More likely is that Roco communicated, probably as long as a year ago - maybe even longer, to Marklin that they were no longer going to manufacture the Fleischmann HO items to allow Marklin to run down any stock they had, and design their own replacement. Such a notification period would probably have been a clause in whatever supply contract existed. Märklin turntable 7286 are copy after Fleischmanns turntable. So long there is legal license when Fleischmann H0 exist. When Fleischmann stop produce H0 scale there is no longer for Märklin to have license to keep on produce turntable. It´s all matter of the contract perhaps. What it stand in the contract i don´t know. Märklinist do have another choice and it´s to buy Roco turntable. It also works for the three rail.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#29 Posted : 05 March 2018 21:38:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Märklin turntable 7286 are copy after Fleischmanns turntable. I bet it is a Fleischmann product with a Märklin label on the box. If Fleischmann stop producing the turntable then Märklin no longer can sell it. License and duplicated tools would be too expensive.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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TEEWolf		#30 Posted : 06 March 2018 17:16:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Originally Posted by: David Dewar I think we need more youngsters coming into the hobby but that is looking unlikely. I wish I could get my kid off the computer and setup a layout. Her comes in and looks at my simple layout once in a while, says "great dad" and goes back to his computer. Give your kid an own (really his own layout under his own responsibility - it is enough, if you are paying for it and give him advice and help, when he is asking) simple layout with a CS 3 and explain him/her that it is more than a computer. It is up to a computerized train glas cockpit simulator, using mfx+. I guess, if you showed him the main functions he will change the computer. And prhaps you might buy this Märklin book https://www.maerklin.de/...digital/digitalbuch-cs3/ which is also in English available. https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/03092 About the brand new book "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading" https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/03070/ I cannot tell you anything, because I ordered it, but have not yet received it. As far as I know, at the moment it will be only in German available. And here you get plenty of information (unfortunately only in German) about layouts, etc for downloading. https://www.maerklin.de/...rklin-magazin/downloads/ Unfortunately you only get to these informations only via the German Märklin homepage. You cannot toggle to the English Märklin homepage there. But for all purposes I can recommend this translator to you: https://www.deepl.com/translator. If your kid does not believe you, show him the complete architecture about a CS 3. https://www.maerklin.de/...emarchitektur_gesamt.pdf much success.
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TEEWolf		#31 Posted : 06 March 2018 17:31:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		In this press release from the "Modelleisenbahn Holding GmbH" (see post #21 from Steventrain) includes a short, but important note: The "Raiffeisenverband Salzburg" - the longtime house banker of the Modelleisenbahn Holdig GmbH (the owner of Fleischmann and Roco) - has taken over the group in October 2017. The new owner is an Austrian bank now. So probabely more changes for this company can be expected.
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H0		#32 Posted : 06 March 2018 17:51:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf The new owner is an Austrian bank now. The new owner is a previous owner. Most likely they are looking for a new investor so they can make profit again. The bank always wins. If the investor fails, the bank will become owner again.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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steventrain		#33 Posted : 06 March 2018 17:58:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Marklin said there is no more Turntable available from Fleischmann. But Marklin is to plan a create new own turntable in the future.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Webmaster		#34 Posted : 06 March 2018 19:02:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Views messages in topic : 11,161		Originally Posted by: Goofy Märklin turntable 7286 are copy after Fleischmanns turntable No, it is Fleischmanns turntable with 3-rail end pieces and a moving bridge with a 3rd rail. Made by Fleischmann.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Rinus		#35 Posted : 07 March 2018 19:27:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		This is bad news for me! When I was young it was either Märklin or Fleischmann. Even had a Fleischmann slot racing track. Really enjoyed their recent E 52 and E 60 and E 69. Each of them superbly made locomotives. Hopefully Roco will add some DB era 3 electric Altbau locomotives to their range. What a pity Märklin did not bought them instead of Trix. Rinus
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TEEWolf		#36 Posted : 07 March 2018 20:19:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Rinus This is bad news for me! When I was young it was either Märklin or Fleischmann. Even had a Fleischmann slot racing track. Really enjoyed their recent E 52 and E 60 and E 69. Each of them superbly made locomotives. Hopefully Roco will add some DB era 3 electric Altbau locomotives to their range. What a pity Märklin did not bought them instead of Trix. Rinus Rinus and what happened to DAF? Sold to Volvo, then taken over by the Chinese Geely. Only the brand, the name DAF was sold back to the NL and they still produce trucks. But do you like to travel around with 40 tons weight? Don't worry be happy! The end of February, Geely bought 9,7% shares of Daimler (Mercedes). This has to been seen very critical. The exchange rate is so favourable to the Chinese that they could spend the billions of Euros easily. This is dangerous. Similar dangerous would be, if Märklin buys Fleischmann. The model railroad market is already an oligopoly. Although there are competitors, we all see the rising prices and what can we do against it? Not very much. But what surprises me – even in this forum and for this thread about “Marklin”– nobody is writing about PIKO. http://www.piko.de/DE/index.php/en/ Does nobody know them? I think they have competitive models and very competitive prices.
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Rinus		#37 Posted : 07 March 2018 20:49:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		If you put it that way, I do like my Volvo Must admit that it’s a lot to do with nostalgics. It’s a brand no more or less.
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H0		#38 Posted : 07 March 2018 20:53:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But what surprises me – even in this forum and for this thread about “Marklin”– nobody is writing about PIKO. Many users here stay on-topic. Some users come from Bavaria. A recent thread about Piko: https://www.marklin-user.../forum/posts/t40169-Piko Not much to write about Piko. They deliver good models and they deliver as scheduled. They listen to their customers and their sales are growing ... Fleischmann and Märklin are old brands - much older than Roco or Piko. That's why Fleischmann and Märklin bring up more memories and more emotions than Roco and Piko.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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PJMärklin		#39 Posted : 08 March 2018 11:09:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,210 Location: Hobart, Australia		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Don't worry be happy! The end of February, Geely bought 9,7% shares of Daimler (Mercedes). This has to been seen very critical. The exchange rate is so favourable to the Chinese that they could spend the billions of Euros easily. This is dangerous. Hello Whichwolf, Do you have foreign ownership laws in Deutschland ? Regards, PJ
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Bryan		#40 Posted : 14 March 2018 14:43:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 211 Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia		Fleishmann ends.pdf (574kb) downloaded 76 time(s). Dear All I thought you would like to see the official letter of Fleischmann ending at the end of the year. The big question to me is what is going to happen to Fleischmann H0 Profi track, always thought it was the best. Also the turntable, best one to me ever made. Regards David
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Minok		#41 Posted : 14 March 2018 19:33:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Originally Posted by: David Dewar I think we need more youngsters coming into the hobby but that is looking unlikely. I wish I could get my kid off the computer and setup a layout. Her comes in and looks at my simple layout once in a while, says "great dad" and goes back to his computer. Have you tried getting him to play Train Simulator or such stuff - which might lead to interest in a more tangible simulation? Of course riding on actual trains is the ultimate enticement.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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TEEWolf		#42 Posted : 14 March 2018 21:12:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Don't worry be happy! The end of February, Geely bought 9,7% shares of Daimler (Mercedes). This has to been seen very critical. The exchange rate is so favourable to the Chinese that they could spend the billions of Euros easily. This is dangerous. Hello Whichwolf, Do you have foreign ownership laws in Deutschland ? Regards, PJ Hello PJ, sorry, I do not understand your question really. What do you mean with "foreign ownership"? For my understanding, a "foreign owner" is an impossible contradiction. Either I am the owner or not. But how can a stranger own anothers property? Regards Wolfgang P.S.: the German luxury train was named "TEE" not "Which". Or did you think at a "witch train"?
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river6109		#43 Posted : 15 March 2018 03:16:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,727 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Don't worry be happy! The end of February, Geely bought 9,7% shares of Daimler (Mercedes). This has to been seen very critical. The exchange rate is so favourable to the Chinese that they could spend the billions of Euros easily. This is dangerous. Hello Whichwolf, Do you have foreign ownership laws in Deutschland ? Regards, PJ Hello PJ, sorry, I do not understand your question really. What do you mean with "foreign ownership"? For my understanding, a "foreign owner" is an impossible contradiction. Either I am the owner or not. But how can a stranger own anothers property? Regards Wolfgang P.S.: the German luxury train was named "TEE" not "Which". Or did you think at a "witch train"? I think there is a misunderstanding with the wording foreign ownership: a person from outside a particular country owning a company in this country is called foreign ownership.
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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PJMärklin		#44 Posted : 15 March 2018 11:31:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,210 Location: Hobart, Australia		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf ... But how can a stranger own anothers property?... Yes indeed - good question for the Australian government who continue to let foreigners own tracts of our land and our companies. PJ
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RayF		#45 Posted : 15 March 2018 12:52:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,839 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Foreign ownership is not necessarily a bad thing. It means there is inward investment into the country. The foreign investor who buys land will presumably develop the land creating employment for construction workers and spending for local industries supplying goods and materials. When completed the development will have businesses or industries which will create further employment. As long as the foreign investor pays his taxes it's a win-win situation.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Minok		#46 Posted : 15 March 2018 18:22:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		But there is also the downside to foreign ownership, just like renters in a house. If they are not "skin in the game present" there is less incentive to do the best possible. Its just an item on the balance sheet because they are not going there physically daily to use/work/etc the site. Some countries have "foreign owner" laws that prevent a foreign (not a citizen/corporation of the country) from owning things. Heck, Vancouver BC recently instituted restrictions on property ownership along those lines because there are large amounts of overseas owner of housing in the city and area, which are being used as vacation houses, or investment properties without renting them out - so a lot of the available housing sits empty and this has caused the price of housing for the people who actually live there to skyrocket. In Germany I think it is a rare case where ownership is legally regulated. VW comes to mind where the state where the main plant resides gets a set controlling interest in the corporation by law... so I'll defer to the folks currently in Germany to clarify that. But certainly the recent sale of some state level banks (HSH Nordbank) to non-Germany entities indicates that there are hardly any such restrictions in Germany.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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PMPeter		#47 Posted : 16 March 2018 03:36:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,275 Location: Port Moody, BC		Originally Posted by: Minok Heck, Vancouver BC recently instituted restrictions on property ownership along those lines because there are large amounts of overseas owner of housing in the city and area, which are being used as vacation houses, or investment properties without renting them out - so a lot of the available housing sits empty and this has caused the price of housing for the people who actually live there to skyrocket. Just to clarify, the BC Foreign Buyer's Tax for Vancouver, does not restrict foreign ownership, but it applies a 15% tax to the purchase of real estate properties in Vancouver by a non-resident. The second tax is a Vacancy Tax and applies to anyone in Vancouver, foreign or resident, who has a property sitting empty for a specified period of time, rather than putting it on the rental market. This second tax still has a number of hurdles to overcome such as what to do with "snowbirds" who spend their winters in warmer climates and summers here. Same for people who may have a foreign job posting, etc. So it will be interesting how this tax will be administered now that the mandated questionnaire process re vacant or not has been completed, but not yet analyzed. Peter
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TEEWolf		#48 Posted : 16 March 2018 04:52:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Originally Posted by: TEEWolf ... But how can a stranger own anothers property?... Yes indeed - good question for the Australian government who continue to let foreigners own tracts of our land and our companies. PJ Hello PJ, thank you all for the explanation. Yes there exists such laws, rules and regulations. In Germany we do have a goverment which is always complaining about the unfair practices of other countries. But then the German goverment themselves uses the same unfair practices aginst foreigners. The German goverment is not really reliable at all. Regards TEEWolf P.S.: This idea with the witch was not bad. Because I know a train to the top of the witch mountain, which is called "Blocksberg". I am looking now for my avatar picture in this direction - wait and see.
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mike c		#49 Posted : 16 March 2018 05:12:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,898 Location: Montreal, QC		Germany has lots of companies with foreign ownership, like Maerklin, Fleischmann, ADTranz (now Bombardier) and the list goes on... German companies own companies in other countries like T-Mobile, Trader Joe's, DB Schenker, etc Regards Mike C
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PJMärklin		#50 Posted : 16 March 2018 10:14:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,210 Location: Hobart, Australia		Originally Posted by: RayF Foreign ownership is not necessarily a bad thing. It means there is inward investment into the country. The foreign investor who buys land will presumably develop the land creating employment for construction workers and spending for local industries supplying goods and materials. When completed the development will have businesses or industries which will create further employment. As long as the foreign investor pays his taxes it's a win-win situation. Hello Ray, Thank you for your opinion, which I respect. Originally Posted by: RayF "It means there is inward investment into the country...." Yes, initially, but there is of course a concurrent outward ownership and as it multiplies your country starts to belong to another. This is spreading stealthily through the southwestern pacific and is of concern to many Australians and New Zealanders. I will stop there out of due regard that politics should not involve this forum. Regards, Philip
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