Hi all,

I saw lippe has a sale going on the CS3 and CS3+. With my 10 year old ecos giving up the ghost, I'm debating going the Markling route this time. But can anyone explain in simple terms the advantages of a CS3+ over a CS3? The Marklin site doesn't really do a great job of it

thanks in advance!

The s88 connection is not the only difference. The cs3+ also has galvanically isolated booster to drive the track, which allows use of a cs2 as a second track connection when another booster is required. This allows any model cs2 to be used where Marklin say only a 60215 can be used.

From memory there are also some other differences, but I don't have the relevant information to hand. However from memory these differences are subtle and probably don't contribute to the decision making process for most people.

The CS3+ also has the CAN bus input connector so that it can be used as an additional remote controller. Therefore, if you already have a CS3 and want to expand with an additional remote controller, then you must have a CS3+.

A CS3 can be used as the first (master) controller.

I think CS3+ is the device to have. (Of course just considering CS3 versus CS3+)

Are you sure about this sale? The prices I see are Eu 585 and 699 respectively which has been the Lippe European price for several months.
I too have been trying to decide between a 3 and a 3+. As far as I can figger it out, the principle difference of the 3+ is that you can connect several of them, or other compatible controllers, in a multi-controller network. If you just envisage using one controller the CS3 will be adequate and including the separate purchase of an L88 link you still save over the cost of the 3+ with its built-in L88 link.
So at present I favour the CS3.

I think the differences have been listed often enough. The question is which difference is the deal breaker for you.

CS3 limitations: No CAN input and no galvanic insulation.
There can be only one CS3 in a multiple-controller setup.
There can be only one CS3 in a multiple-booster setup (and CS2 without galvanic insulation cannot be used with a CS3, but one can be used with a CS3+).

So most people who do not need L88 should be fine buying one CS3 - but those who already have an older CS2 may be better off with a CS3+ if they want to use both boosters. But the older CS2 only have 2.4 A booster current.

I think the CS3 was intentionally crippled for use with starter sets. Thus CS3 starter sets will not be interesting for people who already have a CS3. If you start with a CS3+ you can later add a CS3 from a starter set ...

No easy decision. Just procrastinate until the new ECoS comes out ...

Great point. If you factor in the power supply then the difference is nothing.

The CS3 having no galvanic isolation is what makes me not want the CS3 and prefer the CS3+.
For example have analog locos being feed from the catenary and digital running in the same track seems interesting to me.

Hi all,

I was away on a 2 week business trip, so I'm just catching up to this now. What is the note about a power supply? Does the CS3+ come with a transformer?

Thanks! Between the CS3, CS3+ and an ECOS this is really proving difficult to determine....

The ECoS on the other hand comes with a power supply that works around the world (input voltage 100 through 240 V) and that works with all gauges - the booster cutoff limit can be set in the UI when needed.

I believe the assessment logic is flawed.

Please reevaluate, ensuring you are actually comparing the same functional requirements.
And identify value rather than just cost.

Do not know if this is the correct forum for this question, but here goes:

I am using K-83 decoders for my turnouts on my old K-track using the old Marklin Digital control 80 and control 80f with 2 boosters.

Can I use the k-83s with a CS3+ to control C-track turnouts on my new proposed smaller C-track layout?

Thanks to all of you for any help.

Joe

Hello
What is the galvanic insulation of the CS3+?
And what is the difference of CS3+ (galvanic insulation) and CS3?

What is the S88?
And What he is of use?

In addition to @PMPeter's answer, Märklin issued a Technik-Tipp # 320 for feedback modules and their usage.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-320.pdf

You see the three different major devices and the explanation for them. Of course and unfortunately only in German. But I provide you with a very good translation software too.

https://www.deepl.com/translator

Do not get either. They are flawed and do not work as advertised.
Wait until things settle down.

Do what you want - I have three friends that have CS3 and it does not work for them not to mention
all the forum members that are having problems and have contacted me.

This is a huge embarrassment for Marklin.

Eric

I could not resist adding my 2 cents, especially since over the past two years I've often beaten my head against the wall trying to understand aspects of digital control. There has been so much useful knowledge from this forum that I'm sure someone with the energy and time could write a wonderful book that thoroughly discusses digital control. Such a book would help people such as myself who have tried to get into digital control and didn't realize how much there is to learn and how difficult it is to find certain types of information.

With regard to the CS3/CS3+, I would agree that the CS3+ is the better choice if you have the extra money. I also agree with those who assert that the CS3/CS3+ is not ready - it is not robust and there are many items on it that could use a redesign or patch. I think a good reputable software company would be embarrassed if they released a product such as the CS3/CS3+.

But, if you're getting into digital control with Marklin locos and track, and you don't know that much, the CS3/CS3+ is perhaps a reasonable choice - if, that is, Marklin eventually fixes all the problems. When I was first asking about buying one, some people responded that an ESU 50200 was a much better choice and, after using the CS3 and learning more about digital control, I think they might be right. But to someone just getting into digital control, there are so many things to learn, and sticking with Marklin is perhaps easier and safer.

From one of the well-respected members of the forum, I got into digital control using PC-based software - I use iTrain (I'm a Mac user and liked iTrain for that, but I know the other software out there is also very good). So now my CS3 mainly sits there, passing info back and forth to the locos and accessories and to iTrain. It does have a nice display, and it performs well in that role - I use it also for configuring locos and so forth, but mainly most of my time is spent using iTrain. The CS3 sort of tries to implement block control, but it doesn't come close to iTrain in its capabilities or user interface. So, if I had known all that beforehand, I might have bought something else. However, like I said, the CS3/CS3+ does a great job of serving as an interface between the train/track and iTrain (even though it seems to reboot at the slightest derailment). So, for someone who enjoys a more manual style of operation and is also trying to get into digital control is a bigger way, I think it is a reasonable purchase (again, trusting that Marklin will eventually fix its problems).

I'm not coming to any conclusion or recommendation - other that there is/was so much for me to learn regarding digital control that I'm not unhappy I stuck with Marklin products such as the CS3 or L88 or M83, etc. But now that I know more, I can start using more products from ESU and other companies if the products are more robust, cheaper, and so forth. Perhaps I'm not adventurous enough to have used these other products when I was first starting, or perhaps I just have a preference for Marklin, I don't know.

My 2 cents (if it's even worth that much :-), John

I am still waiting until somebody on our forum buys a CS3 plus recently (a few days ago) and I can find out if most of the faults have been sorted. Will stick with Marklin as I always have with controllers and none have ever let me down including the CS2 and others before.
Marklin should however make sure anything they sell works as it should before putting it on sale and when I buy the Cs3 I have no doubt it will be fine.
Great forum for letting others find out faults etc lol

I have a hard time figuring out what you guys think is actually wrong with the CS3s.

I would like people to clarify if the believe a feature really has a bug

- OR -

If it just does not work the way THEY THINK it should.

There is a difference.

My CS3 Plus works just fine for what I use it for (automation using events and running trains with mfx and DCC).

Bugs known to me:
- I do have some problems with programming DCC, which I believe is a bug in the DCC programming interface on the CS3. This is really annoying. My work around is to use a Mobile Station 2 to write DCC CVs. It works and it is faster. I hope future versions will correct this. I do not have problems running DCC locomotives in general. I do not have problems with programming MFX.

Generally the translation could be better, but to me that is not a bug that makes the thing unusable. Every update contains a few corrections. I see this as work in progress.

Other than that, I have not noticed any critical bugs. There are a lot of things that could benefit from being revisited for usability and such, but they are not bugs IMO.

I cannot recognize the picture painted here with the CS3 being unstable and full of bugs. Also: Please update your CS3 before blasting out negative comments on a forum. What ever problem you had might be fixed.

In my opinion, and for me, the real problem is and has been all the time, that Märklin produces official instructions too late. When I purchased CS3Plus I have some kind of idea what I was purchasing, but really I didn't know fore sure exactly what features new CS3Plus will offer to me. My expectations were somehow different that I has got.

I do not know why Märklin released information about their new control-device, even though they did not tell about the plans and features of new device or the upcoming schedules.. I think they should have published their features and goals and released the device after all plans had been completed and well tested.
This is not the case, we still do not know what features CS3 will really contain.

Quite a lottery!

As I have many times written, CS3Plus is nowadays quite good device, sometimes it hags and I have to "hard boo"t it, but after "hard boot"( it means take power off and put it on again) everything goes well again. I think there will be new features which we don't know so the Device has future

Regards
Jukka

If major software companies such as Microsoft and Apple don't have transparency on if they are fixing something and when a fix may be released, I don't expect Märklin to be doing it.

Something tells me that you are not the person to go to for technology advise.

You can always install DOS and to from there. Let us know how it works out in 2018...

Amazing or I do not understand your statement. The addition of the missed S88 connection at a 60226 is solved already. You use the L88 and connect the S88 AC or DC with this L88. By the way you have to do this by a 60216 too, if you want to use more S88 connections.

https://www.maerklin.de/...emarchitektur_gesamt.pdf

OK, in this architecture the L88 is connected to a 60125, which now is black and got the article # 60145. But both boxes are technical identical. Whereas the manual for a 60145 is at Märklin's website not available. You have to use the manual from the 60125 from Märklin's homepage.

In the manual you see the possible connections. Of course you can directly attach the L88 device to a 60226. In another thread we calculated based on the UVP (= Unverbindliche Preis Empfehlung = Non-binding price recommendation) by Märklin a price difference of 15 € between a 60216 and 60226 included a L88 and S88 equipment.

The 60226 has no CAN-bus input device. Therefore the CS 3 got 2 Märklin device connections. One device may be used for a L88 and the other one for a 60145 terminal. Then you are back in the CAN-bus similar with a CS 3+, but to a higher price. And you still do not have the galvanic separation inside of a CS 3. By my opinion an upgrade for a CS 3 to a CS 3+ is not necessary, even if you never may use the a CS 3 as a slave.

The points raised by TEEWolf and kiwiAlan occurred to me too when I read the statement which is probably why I preceded my comment by FWIW, but here it is verbatim plus the source

The option of upgrading a CS3 to the CS3 plus is already being readied by the way.

Running Trains digitally with the Central Station 3.(page 13) A Maerklin publication which has a publication date of 01 2017

The S88 LINK was made available to the CS2. It was available before the CS3 were at all a product.

The CS3 cannot be upgraded to a CS3 Plus without a change of the motherboard. The components inside are one single motherboard. I cannot see how you can do an upgrade without having to replace the entire thing.

Should an upgrade ever become available, it would probably be something like "ship your CS3 to Märklin and get a CS3 Plus at a reduced cost" or something similar.

IMO: Märklin should never have made the CS3 in the first place. Too much confusion about which one to get. Leave it at the CS3 Plus and no one will miss out.