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Rwill		#51 Posted : 17 April 2018 13:17:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC) Posts: 777 Location: England, London		I believe Marklin are admitting they have a way to go with the CS3 (+) with this years new items catalogue, They used to have Mega start sets with a couple of loks, turnouts and a Central Station. None last year as CS3 was just out and this year we have one Mega start set with confusingly two MS2s - really useful? and not a CS3 in sight. Not even a set with Q4 delivery in time for next Christmas giving them a chance to get things righter! I expect to be told I am talking tosh as usual.
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sudibarba		#52 Posted : 18 April 2018 01:29:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		Well all of this is fine but I think they should get their software working be fore I care about CS3 vs CS3+. Eric
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TEEWolf		#53 Posted : 18 April 2018 20:40:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Rwill I believe Marklin are admitting they have a way to go with the CS3 (+) with this years new items catalogue, They used to have Mega start sets with a couple of loks, turnouts and a Central Station. None last year as CS3 was just out and this year we have one Mega start set with confusingly two MS2s - really useful? and not a CS3 in sight. Not even a set with Q4 delivery in time for next Christmas giving them a chance to get things righter! I expect to be told I am talking tosh as usual. Learned a new word: tosh. Thanks. But you are not writing tosh. I think, it is just the opposite. Märklin will use the CS 3 for inexpensive starter sets. As a Märklin guy told me, Märklin will never offer a starter set with a CS 3+ on the market. If you see such a starter set (they were available) then it was packed by a dealer and not by Märklin. Honestly, for a starter set a CS 3 is absolutely adequate. If you expand your layout either you buy another CS 3+ or a booster or a software for a PC controlling. By my point of view, again it is only a communicating problem by Märklin. On the one hand and especially for a small or even a mid size layout, you do not really need a feedback system, on the other hand you loose nothing buying a CS 3 instead of a CS 3+. But you only must now how to handle the controller with your layout. For my notion it is not clearly enough be communicated to a customer. That Märklin is writing they are working at an update for a CS 3 to a CS 3+ is just marketing hullaballoo (this correct Rwill?). I do not see a real need. If you already owe a CS 2 - you have to ask different questions and to do other considerations.
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Goofy		#54 Posted : 21 April 2018 07:49:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,017		When Märklin did introduced new CS3 i thought the CS3 should have same program like in the CS2 but with faster process. Did Märklin do it? Nope they present new program which also mean same process by upgrade software. Personally i would wait before to get one CS3 to make sure theirs software really works nice.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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TEEWolf		#55 Posted : 21 April 2018 16:30:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Goofy When Märklin did introduced new CS3 i thought the CS3 should have same program like in the CS2 but with faster process. So it is and even much more done, like a better screen. Quote: Did Märklin do it? YES. Quote: Nope they present new program which also mean same process by upgrade software. Personally i would wait before to get one CS3 to make sure theirs software really works nice. From Microsoft you get about once a month a software update for the operating system WIN10. Nevertheless sooner or later it still causes many problems for the user. "Personally i would wait before to get one CS3 [sorry: "WIN10"] to make sure theirs software really works nice." Otherwise then you never get a computer - and sometimes such a computer can be very helpful. For Example writing a post at the "marklin-user.net community".
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rrf		#56 Posted : 23 January 2019 02:17:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Hello Friends, This Friday a large bonus arrives and Beautiful Wife has allocated a decent amount to the Mackenrode Wende Bahn. I have to make a final decision by then between a CS3 and a CS3+. I have read numerous forum threads comparing the two models. I purchased the "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book a few weeks ago and have read thru most of it. Yet I am still unsure about which option to choose. I understand about the CS3+ having the built functionality of an L88 and that I can directly plug a 60881 S88 directly into it. Yet when I compare prices from my dealer (CS3, with L88 and Power Supply for L88) versus (CS3 Plus and S88) there is only a seven dollar difference! Since cost does not appear to be a factor, I wanted to get advice from those of you who actually have a CS3 and/or CS3 plus. On the surface the CS3 and L88 combo seems to be more versatile than the CS3 Plus and S88. Though I have admit that I have no clue as to the implications of the CS3 not having a CAN Bus input and instead having a second controller connection. Any and all information and advice is appreciated! Thanks,
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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johnpatrickwack		#57 Posted : 23 January 2019 02:54:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 147 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello Friends, This Friday a large bonus arrives and Beautiful Wife has allocated a decent amount to the Mackenrode Wende Bahn. I have to make a final decision by then between a CS3 and a CS3+. I have read numerous forum threads comparing the two models. I purchased the "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book a few weeks ago and have read thru most of it. Yet I am still unsure about which option to choose. I understand about the CS3+ having the built functionality of an L88 and that I can directly plug a 60881 S88 directly into it. Yet when I compare prices from my dealer (CS3, with L88 and Power Supply for L88) versus (CS3 Plus and S88) there is only a seven dollar difference! Since cost does not appear to be a factor, I wanted to get advice from those of you who actually have a CS3 and/or CS3 plus. On the surface the CS3 and L88 combo seems to be more versatile than the CS3 Plus and S88. Though I have admit that I have no clue as to the implications of the CS3 not having a CAN Bus input and instead having a second controller connection. Any and all information and advice is appreciated! Thanks, Congratulations! And have your wife call mine and tell her to do the same! I suspect you'll get a number of different replies. My question is, what is it that you want to do - control the trains manually, control them using the capabilities of the CS3 applications, or control the trains via PC software and use the CS3 more as an interface between the track and the PC? There may be more options than just the three I am mentioning. If the answer is the last one, controlling trains via PC software, I think the CS3 is way overkill and you might be better off ultimately by investigating some ESU products instead. HOWEVER, the CS3 works nicely with the other Marklin hardware (L88, S88s, etc.) and, things being complicated enough already, sticking with Marklin is probably the safest and certainly easiest thing to do. I have the CS3, I use an L88, several S88s, a number of M83s and M84s, and a few other small items. I power the CS3/track with one transformer and the switches and lights with a separate transformer. I also have a power feed to the track every 2 meters or so. With the software updates over the past year plus the additional power feeds, I find the CS3 to be fairly robust. Like you, I don't know what the advantages of the CAN Bus are - but if there is only a $7 difference once you factor in the L88, I'd go for the CS3+. You may enjoy things so much down the road that you'll expand your layout and be happier that you got the CS3+. Cheers and good luck, John
		--- John P. Wack Silver Spring, MD
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TEEWolf		#58 Posted : 23 January 2019 04:50:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello Friends, This Friday a large bonus arrives and Beautiful Wife has allocated a decent amount to the Mackenrode Wende Bahn. I have to make a final decision by then between a CS3 and a CS3+. I have read numerous forum threads comparing the two models. I purchased the "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book a few weeks ago and have read thru most of it. Yet I am still unsure about which option to choose. I understand about the CS3+ having the built functionality of an L88 and that I can directly plug a 60881 S88 directly into it. Yet when I compare prices from my dealer (CS3, with L88 and Power Supply for L88) versus (CS3 Plus and S88) there is only a seven dollar difference! Since cost does not appear to be a factor, I wanted to get advice from those of you who actually have a CS3 and/or CS3 plus. On the surface the CS3 and L88 combo seems to be more versatile than the CS3 Plus and S88. Though I have admit that I have no clue as to the implications of the CS3 not having a CAN Bus input and instead having a second controller connection. Any and all information and advice is appreciated! Thanks, You did not mention the most important point: the missing galvanic isolation at a CS 3 (60226). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation Every CS 3+ (60216) has this galvanic islotation inside. This was the major reason for myself to buy a CS 3+.
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Goofy		#59 Posted : 23 January 2019 07:31:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,017		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: Goofy When Märklin did introduced new CS3 i thought the CS3 should have same program like in the CS2 but with faster process. So it is and even much more done, like a better screen. Quote: Did Märklin do it? YES. Quote: Nope they present new program which also mean same process by upgrade software. Personally i would wait before to get one CS3 to make sure theirs software really works nice. From Microsoft you get about once a month a software update for the operating system WIN10. Nevertheless sooner or later it still causes many problems for the user. "Personally i would wait before to get one CS3 [sorry: "WIN10"] to make sure theirs software really works nice." Otherwise then you never get a computer - and sometimes such a computer can be very helpful. For Example writing a post at the "marklin-user.net community". I did used a CS3 and was disapointed to see the system is not completed. It works nice with the mfx but not fully acceptabel with the DCC. Of course did i choised correct CSx...? Somebody says CS3+ are better. Well time will see...
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Bigdaddynz		#60 Posted : 23 January 2019 10:25:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: rrf I have to make a final decision by then between a CS3 and a CS3+. I have read numerous forum threads comparing the two models. I purchased the "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book a few weeks ago and have read thru most of it. Yet I am still unsure about which option to choose. I suggest you read http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus
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rrf		#61 Posted : 23 January 2019 11:49:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Originally Posted by: johnpatrickwack I suspect you'll get a number of different replies. My question is, what is it that you want to do - control the trains manually, control them using the capabilities of the CS3 applications, or control the trains via PC software and use the CS3 more as an interface between the track and the PC? <text removed> I have the CS3, I use an L88, several S88s, a number of M83s and M84s, and a few other small items. I power the CS3/track with one transformer and the switches and lights with a separate transformer. I also have a power feed to the track every 2 meters or so. My fellow Marylander John brings up a good point … I never explained my CS3 use scenarios! It matches almost exactly what he described. The CS3 will be my primary control platform. I plan to have clusters of M83s, M84s and S88s around the layout. To reduce wiring for turnout lamps and signals, I plan to give each M83/M84 cluster its own power using the 60822 and a 66365 power supply. For track control I’m experimenting with the M84 and “Hobby Signal” combination. Originally Posted by: TEEWolf You did not mention the most important point: the missing galvanic isolation at a CS 3 (60226). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation Every CS 3+ (60216) has this galvanic isolation inside. This was the major reason for myself to buy a CS 3+. I have read this before in the forum but never really understood all of the practical implications. I’ve always attributed this difference due to the need for the L88 / S88 network to have its own independent power. To me it makes sense that the CS3+ would isolate the network power circuit from the main track power circuit. The only benefit I've seen mentioned is that this allows connection of CS2's to the CAN Bus. Is there some other benefit of this feature that I am missing? Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz I suggest you read http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus This was an excellent article. Thank you. It did bring up one question though. Does one need a 60125 Terminal in order to connect an L88 to a CS3? Or can I connect the L88 directly to the CS3? Requiring a 60125 will of course drastically change the cost equation even more in favor of the CS3+. Thank you all for your help and replies.
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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David Dewar		#62 Posted : 23 January 2019 16:58:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,341 Location: Scotland		I have a CS3 Plus. One month old and going fine. With almost no difference in price between the two if you are using a S88 then buy the CS3 PLus. Also saves space on your layout with the S88 connecting direct to the CS3 Plus. Also as TEEwolf says there is galvanic isolation.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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kgsjoqvist		#63 Posted : 23 January 2019 18:24:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		Quote: Originally Posted by: TEEWolf You did not mention the most important point: the missing galvanic isolation at a CS 3 (60226). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation Every CS 3+ (60216) has this galvanic isolation inside. This was the major reason for myself to buy a CS 3+. I have read this before in the forum but never really understood all of the practical implications. I’ve always attributed this difference due to the need for the L88 / S88 network to have its own independent power. To me it makes sense that the CS3+ would isolate the network power circuit from the main track power circuit. The only benefit I've seen mentioned is that this allows connection of CS2's to the CAN Bus. Is there some other benefit of this feature that I am missing? Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz I suggest you read http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus This was an excellent article. Thank you. It did bring up one question though. Does one need a 60125 Terminal in order to connect an L88 to a CS3? Or can I connect the L88 directly to the CS3? Requiring a 60125 will of course drastically change the cost equation even more in favor of the CS3+. Thank you all for your help and replies. You can connect the L88 straight into the CS3, actually CS3 has 2 of these bus connectors while CS3 plus has only one. So if you compare prices it should be CS3 + L88 compared to CS3 plus + s88. Galvanic isolation is not as far as I can see an issue when you have only one CS.
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kiwiAlan		#64 Posted : 23 January 2019 18:24:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,104 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: rrf Originally Posted by: TEEWolf You did not mention the most important point: the missing galvanic isolation at a CS 3 (60226). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation Every CS 3+ (60216) has this galvanic isolation inside. This was the major reason for myself to buy a CS 3+. I have read this before in the forum but never really understood all of the practical implications. I’ve always attributed this difference due to the need for the L88 / S88 network to have its own independent power. To me it makes sense that the CS3+ would isolate the network power circuit from the main track power circuit. The only benefit I've seen mentioned is that this allows connection of CS2's to the CAN Bus. Is there some other benefit of this feature that I am missing? This depends on how big you want to make your layout. If your layout is possibly going to grow to a size where you might get a second hand cs2 or cs3 to use as a second controller and booster then a cs3+ would be a better buy. If you expand your layout using boosters (without another cs2 or cs3) to supply more track power then a cs3 will be fine as the boosters all have galvanic isolation in them. This is required to prevent short circuits between a booster and the central station that will blow up the outputs - possibly of both devices. This is why the book you have says the only cs2 to hook up and use as a booster is the 60215 model, although there are some 60214 with later revision motherboards in them that can also be used. Now to the next stage - the cs3 requires the L88 to provide galvanic isolation of the s88 bus from the track output stage of the cs3. The cs3+ has this isolation built in which is why the L88 is not needed - but that doesn't mean you couldn't use one if you want s88 devices a long way away and there is already a CAN bus connection nearby for a booster. And when working out the costs don't forget to add the cost of a power supply for the L88, although I think you could use the switchmode power supply that comes with the IR controller start sets for this if you have one available - could someone confirm this, I don't have the bits to check it out. But as you are already looking to connect s88 modules, and the cost is so close when you add all the needed bits to a cs3, then you may as well get a cs3+.
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rrf		#65 Posted : 23 January 2019 22:32:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Hello, Thank you all, for your extremely helpful replies. Despite there not being a local Märklin club I have decided to "blow" the extra seven bucks for a CS3+, on the off chance that we DC Metro Area folks actually get our "poop" together and form one. Here is the list of toy's I now plan to order. BTW I already have a handful of K83s and digital signals, that I use with my MS2. 1 x 60216 CS3 Plus 1 x 60065 120 Volt Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60832 M83 Switch Decoder 1 x 60842 M84 Power Decoder 2 x 60881 S88 Feedback Modules 4 x 74371 Hobby Yard Signals 1 x 66365 30 VA / 120V Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60822 Universal Power Supply 4 x 72442 Braking Modules One other thought ... I have a Viessmann 5217 S88 feedback module that I purchased a while back on the assumption I was about to get a CS2. Since I will not be acquiring an L88 anytime soon, this 5217 is looking for a good home. John, since we both live in Silver Spring and you have an L88, I'm thinking you may be a good foster parent candidate. Anyway, this S88 is free to the first person who speaks up and makes it easy for me to get it to them!
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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clapcott		#66 Posted : 23 January 2019 23:20:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan .... I think you could use the switchmode power supply that comes with the IR controller start sets for this if you have one available - could someone confirm this, I don't have the bits to check it out. The 60883 DC power socket has a 2.5mm pin - The currently shipping IR Uglybox (Black = p/n253391) and PS 66201 are also 2.5mm Marklins FAQ refers to this 66201 as well as the 66361 and 66365 for use with the 60883 (FAQ is pre 66360(66361 replacement) and 66367(66365 replacement)) Older IR (Grey) and MS1 ugly box uses 2.1mm pin and my experience is that the associated PS at the time had an ID for 2.1mm . i.e. these would need a 2.1->2.5 adapter (Available readily enough) And FWIW the various 6011x trackboxes have a 2.1mm pin even though the supporting 6636x offers 2.5mm i.e. it relies on the spring to offset the sloppiness.
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clapcott		#67 Posted : 23 January 2019 23:39:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: rrf 1 x 66365 30 VA / 120V Switched Mode Power Supply While some may still be in shops, the newer current variant is 66367
		Peter
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David Dewar		#68 Posted : 23 January 2019 23:51:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,341 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello, Thank you all, for your extremely helpful replies. Despite there not being a local Märklin club I have decided to "blow" the extra seven bucks for a CS3+, on the off chance that we DC Metro Area folks actually get our "poop" together and form one. Here is the list of toy's I now plan to order. BTW I already have a handful of K83s and digital signals, that I use with my MS2. 1 x 60216 CS3 Plus 1 x 60065 120 Volt Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60832 M83 Switch Decoder 1 x 60842 M84 Power Decoder 2 x 60881 S88 Feedback Modules 4 x 74371 Hobby Yard Signals 1 x 66365 30 VA / 120V Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60822 Universal Power Supply 4 x 72442 Braking Modules One other thought ... I have a Viessmann 5217 S88 feedback module that I purchased a while back on the assumption I was about to get a CS2. Since I will not be acquiring an L88 anytime soon, this 5217 is looking for a good home. John, since we both live in Silver Spring and you have an L88, I'm thinking you may be a good foster parent candidate. Anyway, this S88 is free to the first person who speaks up and makes it easy for me to get it to them! Well done and a good decision. I see no reason to buy a CS3 if your are using S88 as the CS3 Plus is more convenient with almost no extra cost. You will enjoy your new CS3Plus but take your time setting things up. Buying the right equipment first time saves in the long run.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Minok		#69 Posted : 23 January 2019 23:57:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,311 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest		My quick take (consider I'm violating your terms, I don't have one yet) is: 1) if you don't have and don't plan on having older gear to support, get the CS3+ as it has the S88 support built in and there isn't going to be a need to get the L88 to support the older signalling. And you can then combine that CS3+ with other CS3's and 2s going forward if you ever get to a club situation, etc. 2) If you have older gear and existing L88 stuff, then the CS3 is the way, since the built in S88 endpoint is redundant to your L88.
		Toys of tin and wood rule! --- My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4 My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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TEEWolf		#70 Posted : 23 January 2019 23:58:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello, Thank you all, for your extremely helpful replies. Despite there not being a local Märklin club I have decided to "blow" the extra seven bucks for a CS3+, on the off chance that we DC Metro Area folks actually get our "poop" together and form one. Here is the list of toy's I now plan to order. BTW I already have a handful of K83s and digital signals, that I use with my MS2. 1 x 60216 CS3 Plus 1 x 60065 120 Volt Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60832 M83 Switch Decoder 1 x 60842 M84 Power Decoder 2 x 60881 S88 Feedback Modules 4 x 74371 Hobby Yard Signals 1 x 66365 30 VA / 120V Switched Mode Power Supply 1 x 60822 Universal Power Supply 4 x 72442 Braking Modules One other thought ... I have a Viessmann 5217 S88 feedback module that I purchased a while back on the assumption I was about to get a CS2. Since I will not be acquiring an L88 anytime soon, this 5217 is looking for a good home. John, since we both live in Silver Spring and you have an L88, I'm thinking you may be a good foster parent candidate. Anyway, this S88 is free to the first person who speaks up and makes it easy for me to get it to them! All rigth the decision going with a CS 3+ clears it up. Indeed you do not need a L 88 anymore. But why will you sell the viessmann 5317? There are adapters for using a RJ 45 socket at your Viessmann and S 88 AC (60881) https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60884/ https://tams-online.de/s88-N-Adapter-S88-A https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/shop/en/home/ If you need help because some websites are only in German let me know. All the articles you listed including MS2, k83, etc. can be connected in the digital CAN bus and used. The center can be your new CS 3+. Come back, if you need more informaton about it.
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rrf		#71 Posted : 24 January 2019 00:31:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But why will you sell the viessmann 5217? There are adapters for using a RJ 45 socket at your Viessmann and S 88 AC (60881) https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60884/ Interesting ... I was under the impression that I needed an L88 in order to use older S88s such as the Viesmann 5217. So am I correct in understanding that if I obtain a Märklin 60884 adapter cable that I could us it to connect the Viessmann S88 directly into a new 60881 S88? BTW, I was serious about giving the 5217 away to someone who could use it. So if you were about to chime in and ask for it, let me know. I'm not one to "pull back" an offer simply because I was misinformed. Thanks again everyone for all of the help!
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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clapcott		#72 Posted : 24 January 2019 00:35:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf All rigth the decision going with a CS 3+ clears it up. Indeed you do not need a L 88 anymore. But why will you sell the viessmann 5317? There are adapters for using a RJ 45 socket at your Viessmann and S 88 AC (60881) https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60884/ WRONG! in context. The 60884 is for an outbound ( Controller end - 6 pin flat ) connector TO the inbound (RJ45) port of a 60881/60882 It is correct that you may wire up your own cable for the other way around BUT ensure in your own heart that the device is 12V capable (rather than 5V) and do not expect any warranty to apply
		Peter
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Bigdaddynz		#73 Posted : 24 January 2019 01:29:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Lots of opinions here and lots of confusing advice but regardless of whether I have a CS3 or a CS3+, if I want to use older S88 devices such as the Viessmann 5217 with the CS3/CS3+ then I will need a L88 as that seems to be the only device that has the 6 pin flat connector required for the 5217. And I should run the bus at 5v?
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clapcott		#74 Posted : 24 January 2019 02:12:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,433 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz And I should run the bus at 5v? Only if the vendor does not state their device is 12V capable. Marklin have stated that their legacy 6088 and 60880 will operate on the 60883 at the 12V setting
		Peter
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xxup		#75 Posted : 24 January 2019 02:44:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,464 Location: Australia		I am waiting for this year's ESU new item announcements. If there is no mention of an eCOS 3, then I am going to buy the CS3Plus off the local dealer AND one of those LGB hand held units to replace the slooooooooowwwww ESU Mobile Control II..
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TEEWolf		#76 Posted : 24 January 2019 03:27:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: rrf Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But why will you sell the viessmann 5217? There are adapters for using a RJ 45 socket at your Viessmann and S 88 AC (60881) https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60884/ Interesting ... I was under the impression that I needed an L88 in order to use older S88s such as the Viesmann 5217. So am I correct in understanding that if I obtain a Märklin 60884 adapter cable that I could us it to connect the Viessmann S88 directly into a new 60881 S88? BTW, I was serious about giving the 5217 away to someone who could use it. So if you were about to chime in and ask for it, let me know. I'm not one to "pull back" an offer simply because I was misinformed. Thanks again everyone for all of the help! Not so quick, because I do not know the socket typ at your Viessmann device. I do not have many parts from Viessmann. I guess only one decoder, which does not understand mfx, unfortunately. I decided to concentrate myself at Märklin and the mfx technology. A technology where you get rid of all digital address problems. With mfx and a CS 3 you have a powerfull manager of your digital addresses on hand. Sending you links from tams and Littfinski shall give you an idea to look at other suppliers for the correct adapter to your Viessmann 5217. But I am shure somewhere is someone to find. You only have to find him after knowing which one you need. By this you can almost all devices integrate into your planned digital MRR network. Sometimes not easy but for me it is part of my happy. Just to buy a L88 only to connect the Viessmann (as BDNZ wrote) seems to me not worthwhile. The L88 is quite expensive and needs always a power supply, but you get another 16 feedback contacts directly at the L88 (60883). So it is up to you calculating what will be best.
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Bigdaddynz		#77 Posted : 24 January 2019 11:07:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Not so quick, because I do not know the socket type at your Viessmann device. Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz ......then I will need a L88 as that seems to be the only device that has the 6 pin flat connector required for the 5217. The 5217 takes a 6 pin connector with a flat ribbon cable (as does the Marklin S88 - 6088 and 60880 )
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kgsjoqvist		#78 Posted : 24 January 2019 11:18:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz The 5217 takes a 6 pin connector with a flat ribbon cable (as does the Marklin S88 - 6088 and 60880 ) There are adapters available: https://www.digikeijs.com/en/dr60886-adapter-pcb-from-s88-to-s88n-for-e-g-intellibox.html
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Bigdaddynz		#79 Posted : 24 January 2019 11:21:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: clapcott Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz And I should run the bus at 5v? Only if the vendor does not state their device is 12V capable. Marklin have stated that their legacy 6088 and 60880 will operate on the 60883 at the 12V setting All the 5217 manual says is "The feedback decoder 5217 is compatible to the Marklin digital decoder s 88. "
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xxup		#80 Posted : 24 January 2019 11:48:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,464 Location: Australia		I use a mix of s88 and the Viessmann units on my layout.. They are completely compatible..
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Bigdaddynz		#81 Posted : 24 January 2019 11:54:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist There are adapters available: I realise that, but I'm only talking about what devices are available from Marklin. Has anyone actually verified those connectors work with the CS3+? Plus they aren't available worldwide like the Marklin products are.
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siroljuk		#82 Posted : 24 January 2019 12:32:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 377		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Has anyone actually verified those connectors work with the CS3 ? Hello I have used these: http://www.floodland.nl/aim/shop.php?taal=en I did solder them myself. They work perfectly with CS3Plus, no problem. And I have made several BMD16N (version 1.2) boards, they are easy to make and work perfectly. ( But then I like to make all kind of stuff by my self and I am sometimes too eager, and the consequences can be quite expensive ) BTW, as some of you have seen from this Forum, I broke my two years old CS3Plus device. Now it has arrived to Märklin Service and I am waiting information about the reason for that incident. So If you are doing some electronics by yourself BE CAREFUL Regards Jukka
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rrf		#83 Posted : 24 January 2019 13:47:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf I decided to concentrate myself at Märklin and the mfx technology. A technology where you get rid of all digital address problems. With mfx and a CS 3 you have a powerful manager of your digital addresses on hand. Hello, TEEWolf’s MFX comment really makes sense to me. My investment in previous generation technology (4 x 60830s & 1 x Viessmann 5217) is rather minimal. Besides, the four K83s are destined for my son’s layout later this year. Having all MFX based decoders and feedback modules is how I would like to build out my layout. Originally Posted by: siroljuk So If you are doing some electronics by yourself BE CAREFUL. Jukka’s warning also rings true to me. While I’m not above “hacking” hobby electronics (for example the second hand radio transmitters I modify for use with my RC Combat Warships), I don’t wish to put my new CS3 at risk, simply to “save” a fifty dollar investment I made five years ago. So my offer still stands … I will happily give the 5217 to any forum member who can provide it a good home.
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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David Dewar		#84 Posted : 24 January 2019 16:53:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,341 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: rrf Originally Posted by: TEEWolf I decided to concentrate myself at Märklin and the mfx technology. A technology where you get rid of all digital address problems. With mfx and a CS 3 you have a powerful manager of your digital addresses on hand. Hello, TEEWolf’s MFX comment really makes sense to me. My investment in previous generation technology (4 x 60830s & 1 x Viessmann 5217) is rather minimal. Besides, the four K83s are destined for my son’s layout later this year. Having all MFX based decoders and feedback modules is how I would like to build out my layout. Originally Posted by: siroljuk So If you are doing some electronics by yourself BE CAREFUL. Jukka’s warning also rings true to me. While I’m not above “hacking” hobby electronics (for example the second hand radio transmitters I modify for use with my RC Combat Warships), I don’t wish to put my new CS3 at risk, simply to “save” a fifty dollar investment I made five years ago. So my offer still stands … I will happily give the 5217 to any forum member who can provide it a good home. You are in my view going in the right direction. Use Marklin stuff with your CS3 Plus and all should be well. Plug the cable to the S88 then into the CS3 Plus and thats all you need. I then attached a circuit track to the S88 and all worked with everything taking less than five minutes. Setting up a track board etc will take considerably longer !!
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Crazy Harry		#85 Posted : 24 January 2019 19:06:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 477 Location: Oakville, Ontario		My two cents worth: I bought the CS3 (60226) earlier this year along with a S88 Link (60883) and the two required power supplies (60065 and 66367) as well as a couple M83s and M84 to get acquainted with digital operation. The CS3+ (60216) along with an S88 (60881) and one power supply (60065) would be the comparable configuration and would have cost me $110 CAD more. Not a huge difference, only 10% more. I decided on the CS3 (60226) since I will not be building a huge layout that would require the addition of another central station. I based my decision on the information on the reference (http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus) mentioned several times already. If I ever go bigger and need another central station, then I'll add a CS3+ or whatever the next generation of controller is called and connect the old CS3 to that. Cheers, Harold.
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Thewolf		#86 Posted : 24 January 2019 20:01:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,035 Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada		Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry My two cents worth: I bought the CS3 (60226) earlier this year along with a S88 Link (60883) and the two required power supplies (60065 and 66367) as well as a couple M83s and M84 to get acquainted with digital operation. The CS3+ (60216) along with an S88 (60881) and one power supply (60065) would be the comparable configuration and would have cost me $110 CAD more. Not a huge difference, only 10% more. I decided on the CS3 (60226) since I will not be building a huge layout that would require the addition of another central station. I based my decision on the information on the reference (http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus) mentioned several times already. If I ever go bigger and need another central station, then I'll add a CS3+ or whatever the next generation of controller is called and connect the old CS3 to that. Cheers, Harold. I think that you have done a good job with this choice Thewolf
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TEEWolf		#87 Posted : 24 January 2019 22:16:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Crazy Harry My two cents worth: I bought the CS3 (60226) earlier this year along with a S88 Link (60883) and the two required power supplies (60065 and 66367) as well as a couple M83s and M84 to get acquainted with digital operation. The CS3+ (60216) along with an S88 (60881) and one power supply (60065) would be the comparable configuration and would have cost me $110 CAD more. Not a huge difference, only 10% more. I decided on the CS3 (60226) since I will not be building a huge layout that would require the addition of another central station. I based my decision on the information on the reference (http://railway.zone/post...d-central-station-3-plus) mentioned several times already. If I ever go bigger and need another central station, then I'll add a CS3+ or whatever the next generation of controller is called and connect the old CS3 to that. Cheers, Harold. Finally it is a personal decision which controller you are buying. Reading all this articles I found another argument, I never have thought about before. If you go to a friend or (as I do) participating in a MIST (= Märklin Insider StammTisch) a CS 3+ has the advantage you always can integrate the CS 3+ easily into the CAN bus (same as sometimes named as Märklin bus) at the foreign layout. If you attend such meetings, you get e.g. 3 60226 CS 3 there, you only can use one out of three, three 60216 can be all used (of course only, if you have the correct connecting cable 60123 with you). When I read this thread and further articles and books (especially the new CS 3 Workbook), I have underestimated a S 88 Link. It might be even for CS 3+ owner at a certain point be valuable buying a S 88 Link. E.g. at the CS 3+ you only have one feedback bus available, the S 88 Link offers three of them. But this is a completely other thread.
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Bigdaddynz		#88 Posted : 25 January 2019 00:01:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,663 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But this is a completely other thread. Probably this thread then! https://www.marklin-user...dunread-CS3-plus-and-S88
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TEEWolf		#89 Posted : 26 January 2019 04:05:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But this is a completely other thread. Probably this thread then! https://www.marklin-user...dunread-CS3-plus-and-S88 Indeed I read this thread and it comes closer to a complete S 88 Link usage, but it is not all. This is the amazing thing of this digital device and decoder, which actual is a dual one. He is the interface to the CAN bus and gives the necessary galvanic isolation, itself is a feedback decoder with 16 feedback ports, it can be the starting point of 4 different feedback bus systems with its own power supply. And it is the interface for all older Märklin decoders or controller. https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-322.pdf https://www.maerklin.de/...q/Technik-Tipp-320-b.pdf https://shop.vgbahn.info...cs3+workbook+-_4681.html The bad thing is these documents are all in German available only. But especially the CS 3 Workbook gives a lot of information Märklin never has issued.
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rrf		#90 Posted : 01 February 2019 01:46:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Hello Friends, I wanted to thank everyone who helped me figure out my CS3 versus CS3+ quandary. The CS3+ and assorted accessories arrived yesterday. Last night I got the S88 working with an existing K83 and signals. I now have two events defined that allow two trains to take turns going around a small test oval with a "station" siding. The "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book is in my mind a prerequisite for anyone who has never used a CS before. I got my copy a few weeks ago and am glad I have it ... without the book I probably would still be trying to figure out why the S88 wasn't working. The Shuttle Train section described the "GFP3-1" Device setting that I needed to use for an S88 connected directly to a CS3+. The book also taught me about the concept of using an M84 Power Decoder with Hobby signals. I expect I will really like this solution in lieu of the more expensive digital signals that I have been purchasing. So tonight's task is to get the new M83, M84 and universal power distribution unit working. Thanks again for all of the help and advice!
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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David Dewar		#91 Posted : 01 February 2019 12:12:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,341 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: rrf Hello Friends, I wanted to thank everyone who helped me figure out my CS3 versus CS3+ quandary. The CS3+ and assorted accessories arrived yesterday. Last night I got the S88 working with an existing K83 and signals. I now have two events defined that allow two trains to take turns going around a small test oval with a "station" siding. The "Running Trains Digitally with the Central Station 3" book is in my mind a prerequisite for anyone who has never used a CS before. I got my copy a few weeks ago and am glad I have it ... without the book I probably would still be trying to figure out why the S88 wasn't working. The Shuttle Train section described the "GFP3-1" Device setting that I needed to use for an S88 connected directly to a CS3+. The book also taught me about the concept of using an M84 Power Decoder with Hobby signals. I expect I will really like this solution in lieu of the more expensive digital signals that I have been purchasing. So tonight's task is to get the new M83, M84 and universal power distribution unit working. Thanks again for all of the help and advice! Good choice. How are you getting on with the track board which I find not all that great to set up.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Drjoe11		#92 Posted : 01 February 2019 18:42:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 50 Location: Florida, Leesburg		How do I delete a locomotive on my new CS3+? I am just learning how to use it and trying to enter Locomotives is a bit confusing. Thanks for any help. Joe
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rrf		#93 Posted : 01 February 2019 19:37:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA		Originally Posted by: David Dewar How are you getting on with the track board which I find not all that great to set up. Working with the track board took a bit of getting used to. I have been able to get my test oval defined without too much pain. I am guessing though more complex track plans will be much more difficult. I'm going to try a mouse to see if it provides better cursor control. I am also curious to see how well editing the track board works when connected from an external browser. Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 How do I delete a locomotive on my new CS3+? I am just learning how to use it and trying to enter Locomotives is a bit confusing. Thanks for any help. Joe I just learned this myself Slide the red oval at the bottom of the screen towards the top of the CS3, to open the locomotive menu. Note: you will need to slide it all the up until you see the edit icon (wrench). Tap the edit icon. All existing lok icons get a small “X” in their upper right corner. Tap the “X”. You will be prompted if you really wish to delete the lok. If you don't have the book, you sould seriously consider getting it. I would be lost without it!
		Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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Drjoe11		#94 Posted : 02 February 2019 00:42:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 50 Location: Florida, Leesburg		I have the book. I am following it, but I never saw the X's on the locos. I will try again. Thanks, Joe
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TEEWolf		#95 Posted : 02 February 2019 02:35:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 I have the book. I am following it, but I never saw the X's on the locos. I will try again. Thanks, Joe In this case the book does you not tell you enough. You have to do a look inside the CS 3 manual https://static.maerklin....065db123781498138103.pdf at page 12 (for every language it is the same page number in the manual) - at the pdf-viewer it is page #52 in English - upper left corner "changing to the editing mode" is a description how to delete a loco.
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