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Offline ShannonN  
#1 Posted : 10 January 2018 07:44:58(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 443
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Hi everyone
I have a layout up and running at home now and want to run my Marklin 29351 Digital Starter Set VI as well as my Marklin 29074 Digital Starter Set

My layout is similar to this one. Fleischmann_HO_1.scarm (146kb) downloaded 24 time(s).

What's happening is I'm controlling them via 1 MS2, having used the auto register to add them to the MS2. Individually they run fine. That is: only 1 loco present on track at one time. However when I place both on different areas of the track they both want to run even though I have only 1 selected on MS2 .

I realize its probably just a case of them using the same address for control but my main question is with auto registration shouldn't address conflicts be impossible?

Any guide to do manual registration on MS2 to keep them totally separate?

Blessings Shannon




My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 10 January 2018 08:02:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
I realize its probably just a case of them using the same address for control but my main question is with auto registration shouldn't address conflicts be impossible?
Loco addresses are unique per serial number - and every mfx decoder should have a unique serial number.

I had two mfx decoders with the same serial number (0xffffffff in my case) and the MS2 could not tell them apart and could not control them individually.
I returned the decoders to Märklin to have them swapped. This solved my problem.

The MS2 cannot display the serial number of a decoder, so further analysis with the MS2 is difficult.
A CS2 will display the mfx address (or at least a pseudo mfx address). Maybe you know any CS2 owners you can visit for a test ...

If you reset the MS2, register the first loco, then register the second loco, do you get two entries in this case or just one loco entry?

Manual registration is only possible if you disable mfx - either in the decoder (most likely impossible) or in the controller (applies to all locos). Then you can control the locos using MM protocol or may DCC protocol (if supported by the decoder - DCC is not listed for those starter sets).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline ShannonN  
#3 Posted : 10 January 2018 08:44:19(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 443
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
I realize its probably just a case of them using the same address for control but my main question is with auto registration shouldn't address conflicts be impossible?
Loco addresses are unique per serial number - and every mfx decoder should have a unique serial number.

The MS2 cannot display the serial number of a decoder, so further analysis with the MS2 is difficult.
A CS2 will display the mfx address (or at least a pseudo mfx address). Maybe you know any CS2 owners you can visit for a test ...

If you reset the MS2, register the first loco, then register the second loco, do you get two entries in this case or just one loco entry?

.


I did that, the controller was the one I got with the Benelux 2nd hand starter kit it already had the loco registered so I deleted it then one by one registered both I do get two separate icons and feature sets this is where I'm getting stressed. I may try it with my other MS2 its the later black one


Blessings Shanny



My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 10 January 2018 15:37:22(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,374
Location: Montreal, QC
Try to use the new MS2. If not, you probably need to update the database in your original MS2, as probably one of the loks is not recognized individually.
Did the MS2 recognize both as MFX, if not, it may have defaulted to DCC where each lok might have the address 3, or to Motorola MM protocols.
Normally, when a mfx locmotive is recognized, it displays the Maerklin given lok name and information for each lok. That itself should prevent two loks from responding to the same commands.
I still wish Maerklin would have come up with an updated 6021 controller that you have worked with MM/MFX/DCC and had 28 functions and 3 digit addresses.
I would prefer to be able to key in the address rather than having to scroll to locate the one that I want to control.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline ShannonN  
#5 Posted : 10 January 2018 16:40:35(UTC)
ShannonN

Australia   
Joined: 14/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 443
Location: Maryborough, Qld
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Try to use the new MS2. If not, you probably need to update the database in your original MS2, as probably one of the loks is not recognized individually.
Did the MS2 recognize both as MFX, if not, it may have defaulted to DCC where each lok might have the address 3, or to Motorola MM protocols.
Normally, when a mfx locmotive is recognized, it displays the Maerklin given lok name and information for each lok. That itself should prevent two loks from responding to the same commands.
I still wish Maerklin would have come up with an updated 6021 controller that you have worked with MM/MFX/DCC and had 28 functions and 3 digit addresses.
I would prefer to be able to key in the address rather than having to scroll to locate the one that I want to control.

Regards

Mike C

Hi Mike
will try that tomorrow The MS2 does id both as MFX with Marklin icons to suit. the icon looks ok to me that is; the steam loco shows a steam loco and the electric shows an electric icon

Cheers Shanny



My Trains
EL Cheapo starter set stuff
Märklin 29752 Starter set Fire Brigade with diesel locomotive Henschel 500 x2
Märklin 29204 Starter set "American High speed train
Märklin 29163 Starter Set "My with Märklin" Loco BR 89
Märklin 29213 Starter set ICE NS Battery
Märklin 29202 Starter set "Belgian High-speed Rail
Märklin 29210 Starter set "Freight train"
Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 10 January 2018 16:44:25(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: ShannonN Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone
I have a layout up and running at home now and want to run my Marklin 29351 Digital Starter Set VI as well as my Marklin 29074 Digital Starter Set

My layout is similar to this one. Fleischmann_HO_1.scarm (146kb) downloaded 24 time(s).

What's happening is I'm controlling them via 1 MS2, having used the auto register to add them to the MS2. Individually they run fine. That is: only 1 loco present on track at one time. However when I place both on different areas of the track they both want to run even though I have only 1 selected on MS2 .

I realize its probably just a case of them using the same address for control but my main question is with auto registration shouldn't address conflicts be impossible?

Any guide to do manual registration on MS2 to keep them totally separate?

Blessings Shannon


Shannon,

if you do not set the speed to ZERO for the first running loco before you set your second one on the layout, the first loco will always run further with its last speed you have setted up.

It is one function of the MS 2 that you may run up to 11 locos parallel at the same time, but you only can control always one loco. If you want to control another one, you have to switch to the entry for this loco and alter whatever you want (here the speed).

If you want to control 2 runnig locos separately with more different speeds, you need 2 MS 2. These 2 you can attach easily to your digital starter box. To attach more MS 2 to your layout? It is possible with art# 60122 (MS II Hub for distribution device). It is a hub for adding more MS 2 controllers to your layout. And with each MS 2 you control always one loco.

Märklin offers for the MS 2 art#60653 a technicel tipp (TT) #306

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-306.pdf

there it is only in German available here a good translating software

https://www.deepl.com/translator


What I tried to explain to you, you will find the description by Maerklin in the TT #306 page 4 under the heading "Loks fahren" (= driving locos or better controlling locos).

regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline Bones  
#7 Posted : 26 January 2018 13:30:15(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Queensland
Just a little tip I have found with my MS2

Also when you put a new loco in make sure no other locos are sitting on any live part of the track

Make sure you turn all the locomotives of before you take them of the track

Turn each of the running loco's off before you add a new loco because the memory of the MS2 will
automatically start any previously added loco's off at the old settings from your previous runs

I now have five loco's that run very well now and 3 are mfx and 2 are Ecos

ThumpUp
Offline TEEWolf  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2018 23:46:14(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
Just a little tip I have found with my MS2

Also when you put a new loco in make sure no other locos are sitting on any live part of the track


Yes, but only you are programming and/or adding it in your MS2 database - if the new loco is not yet listed there. But this you may do on a seperate, from your layout completly disconnected track, the so called pogramming track.


Quote:
Make sure you turn all the locomotives of before you take them of the track


Well I always set the speed to zero, if I change to another loco out of my registered loco fund.

Quote:
Turn each of the running loco's off before you add a new loco because the memory of the MS2 will automatically start any previously added loco's off at the old settings from your previous runs


Well it is less a memory than more a staying at the last set up position.


Quote:
I now have five loco's that run very well now and 3 are mfx and 2 are Ecos
ThumpUp


Set up the 3 mfx locos causes you no problems. Also you do not need to program them first with your MS2. You set it on the tracks of your layout. The mfx decoder recognize it and register the locos automatically. It may last a few seconds till the registration will start or perhaps you have to move them very short and softly on the tracks till it gets the contact to the tracks. Very often are either the tracks dirty or the wheels of your locos. Dirty wheels is a major problem for not getting contact between the tracks and the loco.

But what do you mean with ECoS? ECoS for me is not a decoder inside a loco, it is the controller from the German company ESU and a equivalent to a CS 3 from Maerklin, but not for a MS 2. A MS 2 controller is much smaller than an ECoS or CS 3, as far as I know, because I only do have MS 2 and CS 3 controllers in use.

The 2 locos which has not a mfx decoder you have to register first. It depends which decoder these locos have inside. By this decoder you may programm them in fx, MM2 or DCC format. The MS 2 understands all these formats.

You did not write which MS 2 you got. There are the #60653 (grey) and #60657 (black). The 60657 has only another colour which aligns it with Maerklins new CS 3. But both MS 2 are technically identic. Even they are technically identic with the version from TRIX (#66955).

If you need a manual for the MS 2 you find it on Maerklin's homepage

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60657/

and Maerklin issued special technical tips for various topics. One tip is for the MS 2

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-306.pdf

Technical Tip #306 is for operating a MS 2. These tips are unfortunately only in German available. But here you find a good translation programm.

https://www.deepl.com/translator

I think it is better than the Google translator.

There are massive articles published about a MS 2, but 95% I guess are in German. Even Maerklin does so. Here another article from Maerklin about programming wth a MS 2

https://www.maerklin.de/...4_Digital_MM_2014_03.pdf

Have fun

TEEWolf













CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 27 January 2018 08:44:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
The mfx decoder recognize it and register the locos automatically.
LOL
Many threads on this site - including this thread - discuss problems with automatic mfx registration.

For Shannon it does not work as it should. Explaining how it should work may not do much good for him.


BTW: When registering a new loco, there can be any number of locos on the track.
Find loco can only work for MM or DCC locos if there is just one loco on the track.
Programming should only be done with just one loco on the track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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