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Offline Danlake  
#51 Posted : 30 December 2017 06:07:07(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Hi Minok,

Yes I have both a Marklin 60061 with EU plug and one with NZ plug.

Both gives similiar results.

And I tried various outlet socket in house - all similiar result.

I just tried another 12V DC adapter used for my telescope. Used plug in bathroom and used the water faucet as a ground point. I get 60V potential here....

Iam planning to purchase one of the outlet socket tester provided in links above and call an electrician out after New Year.

Brgds Lasse

Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Minok  
#52 Posted : 30 December 2017 06:27:25(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,049
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Just on a lark what about neutral to water pipe AC voltage?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline Danlake  
#53 Posted : 30 December 2017 07:30:03(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Just on a lark what about neutral to water pipe AC voltage?


Hi Minok,

Just tried that and result was 0V.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Danlake  
#54 Posted : 30 December 2017 08:37:48(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Been reading some more interesting reading:

https://electronics.stac...-ac-to-dc-power-adapters

https://superuser.com/qu...-adapter/1103702#1103702

So it seems that it’s normal to have seepage of electricity on DC adapter that has no ground pin?

All my test done so far has been done with DC adapters with only 2 pins including the Marklin 60061...

I just ran another test in my computer room.

DC adapter 30V with 2 pins = 110V to ground
DC adapter 12V with ground pins = 0V

My regulated DC power supply I used to compare test with the Marklin 60061 also has 3 pins and a metal chassis and maybe explains why I did not measure any significant voltage potential?

Now I wonder if everything is ok after all and I just have discovered something not many users are aware off?

But we are still back at the fundamental question then. Should the
Marklin power supply not have been designed with a ground pin? As depending on how you rotate the plug you could have up to 170V potential which will leak into the rails and give a lot of tingling...

Would appreciate if someone else could do a small test and see what potential they get from the rails or from the Marklin 60061 to a ground point in your train room? PleaseThumpUp

Brgds Lasse




Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline H0  
#55 Posted : 30 December 2017 09:07:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
But we are still back at the fundamental question then. Should the Marklin power supply not have been designed with a ground pin?
AFAIK such a design would be illegal for toys in Germany.
Only very old Märklin transformers have a screw for a ground connection.

Theoretically there should be double insulation inside the power supply. Worries me to read that reversing the mains plug has such a huge impact on the leak voltage on the output side - apart from seeing any leak voltage on the output side at all.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Purellum  
#56 Posted : 30 December 2017 10:58:47(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,168
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post


Hi Dale,

Here is some measurements from the wall socket I used for testing:

Live and neutral = 240 V
Live and ground = 240 V
Neutral and ground = 0 V

And finally 0 V between ground and water pipe.

Above looks normal no?

Brgds Lasse


Yes, the above is as it should be.

One thing you could do, is to ground one of the output ( DC ) wires going from your 60061. This would make the maximum potential related to ground 19V DC.

Not solving the problem as in "why"; but protecting you from getting the electrical shocks.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline SteamNut  
#57 Posted : 30 December 2017 11:51:08(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 469
Twice I saw something similar to your problem. Basically someone used ground as a neutral (the white wire back to the panel) which in one case caused an AC compressor to fail prematurely. The other time was for a outside sign when the ground as used as a neutral which caused someone a nasty shock.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#58 Posted : 30 December 2017 19:25:51(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,098
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

Here is some measurements from the wall socket I used for testing:

Live and neutral = 240 V
Live and ground = 240 V
Neutral and ground = 0 V

And finally 0 V between ground and water pipe.

Above looks normal no?

Brgds Lasse


Yes that looks excellent and should rule out any high neutral of the house issue.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline tulit  
#59 Posted : 31 December 2017 17:45:18(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
FYI I had the same problem with the 60101. My difference is that I had it running through a 110->220 autotransformer. I concluded it must have been due to the non isolating design of the step up transformer. But it seems it maybe a inherient flaw in the design of the marklin SMPSs.

Saw the same problem with my dads 60101 + cs2 at his house too.

I stopped using it and moved to the 60065 which doesn’t exhibit this.
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Offline Danlake  
#60 Posted : 01 January 2018 07:43:45(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Yes, the above is as it should be.

One thing you could do, is to ground one of the output ( DC ) wires going from your 60061. This would make the maximum potential related to ground 19V DC.

Not solving the problem as in "why"; but protecting you from getting the electrical shocks.

Per.

Cool



Hi Per,

Once I rotate the EU plug in my NZ adapter the voltage potential drops from 170V to 60V and in that case you can’t feel anything when touching the rails.

I can live with this. However I will keep investigating this, also to rule out any issues with our house wiring.

But my suspicion is that there is a design flaw with Marklin switch mode powerpacks. As Tom mentioned it’s a worry if there can be so much seepage of voltage in the isolation part.

I will now contact my NZ dealer where I bought this power pack as well drop an email to Marklin digital club to see if they can do some testing.


Iam already in contact with Frank Mayer from Marklin Service and provided my a report of my test done, but it will probably be a while before I hear anything back.

But once again thanks for all the inputs and learned a lot of new stuff about electricity.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Purellum  
#61 Posted : 01 January 2018 13:20:33(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,168
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
I can live with this. However I will keep investigating this, also to rule out any issues with our house wiring.


I'm quite sure there's no issues with you house wiring.

Generally, grounding is always a good thing to do.

Make "your own ground" on an iron bar in the ground or something similar.

Don't use the ground wire in your power outlet; which could be catastrophic if someone later swaps the wires wrongly.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline mike c  
#62 Posted : 01 January 2018 20:14:23(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,378
Location: Montreal, QC
Rotating the Euro plug may result in 60V instead of the 170V you recorded, but I would be worried that that action might actually result in higher voltage being present in the centre rail than what the equipment can tolerate.
Have you checked studs to ground voltage?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Purellum  
#63 Posted : 01 January 2018 22:23:33(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,168
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Have you checked studs to ground voltage?


Neither "studs to ground voltage" or "outer rails to ground voltage" is relevant for the equipment, as long as the voltage between studs and outer rails is around 19V.

Rotating the plug, resulting in 60V instead of 170V is just giving 60V +/- 19V instead of 170V +/- 19V.

To me it just shows that the 60061 is charging part of the output circuit, like a capacitor being charged, more so if the phase is on one of the 230V AC wires than the other.

Since it can be felt; but doesn't have enough power to light up a light bulb, I would just ground one of the output wires.

Of cause Märklin will have to come with a solution, because this is not acceptable.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Danlake  
#64 Posted : 05 May 2018 08:41:53(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Hi all,

To finish off this post I will just summarise the latest info I got:

  • I had sent 2 detailed reports to Marklin Service and they have now confirmed they have done some testing. The power supply full fills all legal requirement and no deviations can be found

  • I also contacted my local dealer in NZ and he confirms it seems to a known design issue with switch mode power supply, but that the leakage current is still within specs.

  • I got my house wiring checked and all sockets are correct wired etc.


I did some research myself and it appears to be a well known dilemma for unearthed switch mode power packs. The main issue is that they need to limit EMI noise and by doing this they install Y-capacitor. It is these capacitor (by its design) that will leak current. There are international standard for different classes of power supplies (with medical grade equipment having the highest standard and unearthed power supplies the lowest). If you are interested in background read below article from stackexchange.com

Conclusion: in any switch mode power packs that has no earth pin there will always be some leakage current. The current can normally light up a small LED but not harmful to humans. I solved my problem by rotating the mains plug from the power supply 180 degrees. So if you feel electrical shocks from touching the rails - try and do that first.

Best Regards and safe railroading!

Lasse

Article from: https://electronics.stac...-capacitor-in-a-smps-do:

Switched mode power supplies use what is known as a "flyback converter" to provide voltage conversion and galvanic isolation. A core component of this converter is a high frequency transformer.

Practical transformers have some stray capacitance between primary and secondary windings. This capacitance interacts with the switching operation of the converter. If there is no other connection between input and output this will result in a high frequency voltage between the output and input.

This is really bad from an EMC perspective. The cables from the power brick are now essentially acting as an antenna transmitting the high frequency generated by the switching process.

To suppress the high frequency common mode is is necessary to put capacitors between the input and output side of the power supply with a capacitance substantially higher than the capacitance in the flyback transformer. This effectively shorts out the high frequency and prevents it escaping from the device.

When desinging a class 2 (unearthed) PSU we have no choice but to connect these capacitors to the input "live" and/or "neutral". Since most of the world doesn't enforce polarity on unearthed sockets we have to assume that either or both of the "live" and "neutral" terminals may be at a sinificant voltage relative to earth and we usually end up with a symmetrical design as a "least bad option". That is why if you measure the output of a class 2 PSU relative to mains earth with a high impedance meter you will usually see around half the mains voltage.

That means on a class 2 PSU we have a difficult tradeoff between safety and EMC. Making the capacitors bigger improves EMC but also results in higher "touch current" (the current that will flow through someone or something who touches the output of the PSU and mains earth). This tradeoff becomes more problematic as the PSU gets bigger (and hence the stray capacitance in the transformer gets bigger).

On a class 1 (earthed) PSU we can use the mains earth as a barrier between input and output either by connecting the output to mains earth (as is common in desktop PC PSUs) or by using two capacitors, one from the output to mains earth and one from mains earth to the input (this is what most laptop power bricks do). This avoids the touch current problem while still providing a high frequency path to control EMC.

Short circuit failure of these capacitors would be very bad. In a class 1 PSU failure of the capacitor between the mains supply and mains earth would mean a short to earth, (equivalent to a failure of "basic" insulation). This is bad but if the earthing system is functional it shouldn't be a major direct hazard to users. In a class 2 PSU a failure of the capacitor is much worse, it would mean a direct and serious safety hazard to the user (equivilent to a failure or "double" or "reinforced" insulation). To prevent hazards to the user the capacitors must be designed so that short circuit failure is very unlikely.

So special capacitors are used for this purpose. These capacitors are known as "Y capacitors" (X capacitors on the other hand are used between mains live and mains neutral). There are two main subtypes of "Y capacitor", "Y1" and "Y2" (with Y1 being the higher rated type). In general Y1 capacitors are used in class 2 equipment while Y2 capacitors are used in class 1 equipment.

So does that capacitor between the primary and secondary sides of the SMPS mean that the output is not isolated? I've seen lab supplies that can be connected in series to make double the voltage. How do they do that if it isn't isolated?

Some power supplies have their outputs hard-connected to earth. Obviously you can't take a pair of power supplies that have the same output terminal hard-connected to earth and put them in series.

Other power supplies only have capactive coupling from the output to either the input or to mains earth. These can be connected in series since capacitors block DC.
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#65 Posted : 06 May 2018 12:10:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

I did some research myself and it appears to be a well known dilemma for unearthed switch mode power packs.


Not just switch mode power packs, my story back in post 37 covers exactly the same thing, capacitive coupling from the primary to the secondary side, in that case the primary was the heating element of the electric blanket, and the 'secondary' was the person in the bed.

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Offline dominator  
#66 Posted : 07 May 2018 07:21:09(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
He's the man eh. Well researched Lasse

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Danlake  
#67 Posted : 23 May 2019 01:06:25(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
HI all,

Here we go again. Now also excessive "touch current" observed with newer type power supplies to MS2.

This issue only became apparent for me sometimes after 2017 when I had to replace by power supplies to my old CS2. And last year I bought a brand new MS2 (black) with a power supply from 06/17.

I wonder if Steger (the manufacture for Marklin of their power supplies) have changed their design and gone overboard in their pursue to limit potential EMC (higher Y capacitors will limit EMC but also increase "touch current).

See below photos for test results:


While trying to reset an old MM decoder I used my MS2 on the test bench and got a really nasty shock when accidental touching the rails (was standing bare feet in my garage on concrete floor). I then took my multi meter and measured a voltage potential from outer rail through my body to ground of 207V. Fortunately unable to measure any current (miliamps).

Pic1.JPG


I then rotated the EU plug 180 degree in my NZ power plug adaptor and performed a new measurement. Now hardly any voltage.
Pic2.JPG

Conclusion; as stated in previous post if you feel a "touch current" from the rails try rotating the power plug (for your switched mode power packs).

I have previously been in contact with Marklin with no avail and wonder if I should try and get hold of Steger directly? The other options would be to try and contact the EU regulatory body who approves these class II power supplies. Knowing Steger is supplying the space industry with components and Marklin previously have been obsessed with EMC/noise I wonder if they have compromised on safety here in pursue of minimising EMC...

Best Regards and safe modelling
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline tiono  
#68 Posted : 23 May 2019 02:51:18(UTC)
tiono

United States   
Joined: 09/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
HI all,

Here we go again. Now also excessive "touch current" observed with newer type power supplies to MS2.


yes, I also got the same electrical shock, which disappeared after I rotated the power plug.
My solution: use a three-pin power plug adapter, so that it will always in the correct position. (This solution will only work if the home power socket is non rotatable three-prong, in my case; it is UK type G)

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#69 Posted : 23 May 2019 11:07:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

I have previously been in contact with Marklin with no avail and wonder if I should try and get hold of Steger directly? The other options would be to try and contact the EU regulatory body who approves these class II power supplies. Knowing Steger is supplying the space industry with components and Marklin previously have been obsessed with EMC/noise I wonder if they have compromised on safety here in pursue of minimising EMC...

Best Regards and safe modelling
Lasse


This supply will pass CE certification, which is a self certification system. However the manufacturer has to have a significant file of information on what they have done, materials used, etc. It does not need to go out to any 'regulatory body' for approval.

Steger may be supplying the space industry with components (but I work in the space industry and haven't come across them as a source) but these power supplies will certainly NOT use any space qualified components, they would simply be too expensive.

The sort of shock that you have received can also be achieved from an electric blanket if you had the same 'bare feet' connection with earth. There has been quite a discussion on this forum previously about this.

I can assure you they haven't compromised on safety, the fact that you couldn't measure any current shows that.
Offline Danlake  
#70 Posted : 23 May 2019 13:49:28(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Hi Alan,

I think you are right - not the space industry but the aviation industry. My mistake. On their website they claim to supply transformers to both Boeing and Airbus.

https://www.stegertrafo.de/en/company.html

Anyway my point regarding safety is more towards Marklin clearly marketing their products towards children and use of carpet bahns etc. So even though the current is almost nil you can still get a nasty shockScared

There has been numerous media reports about laptop manufactures getting in hot water when users complains about not being able to rest their hand on a metal chassis laptop while its charging...

I am no electronics expert but as a common user it also makes sense to ask; what would happened if those Y capacitors fails?

From this website there is some interesting reading but the application of Y capacitors may not be the same as within our switched mode power packs:

http://powerblog.vicorpo...6/what-are-y-capacitors/

When does capacitor reliability become critical to safety?

Line filter capacitors are classified either as X-capacitors or Y-capacitors. X-capacitors are connected between line and neutral, to protect against differential mode interference. Their failure does not create conditions for dangerous electric shock, although it can create a fire risk. However Y-capacitors are designed to filter out common-mode noise, and are connected between line and chassis; if they short-circuit, they create a risk of shock to the user.

Best Regards
Lasse

Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#71 Posted : 23 May 2019 14:33:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

Line filter capacitors are classified either as X-capacitors or Y-capacitors. X-capacitors are connected between line and neutral, to protect against differential mode interference. Their failure does not create conditions for dangerous electric shock, although it can create a fire risk. However Y-capacitors are designed to filter out common-mode noise, and are connected between line and chassis; if they short-circuit, they create a risk of shock to the user.

Best Regards
Lasse



X and Y capacitors are made from materials that will not fail short circuit. They use a construction known as 'self healing' on non-ceramic versions so that if the insulation does punch through they will isolate that spot and become a capacitor again, or technology that causes it to go open circuit on ceramic versions. See this link for a broader discussion on them than the link you posted.

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Offline dominator  
#72 Posted : 24 May 2019 01:02:41(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Interesting comments. I must admit, I haven't had the problem yet but I dont think I have touched the tracks to cause it or maybe because I have carpet on the floor???

Lasse, time to put on your "Maori safety boots"maybe..

BTW, my mate still raves about your magnificent railway. Maybe its time for another fix. [ He has seen John Haymans railway as well. ]

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline Danlake  
#73 Posted : 24 May 2019 04:38:17(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Hi Derek,

You guys are always welcome and you could bring your MS2 if we want to try and update them via my CS3...

Done a bit more scenery on the layout and could also show off my winter displayBigGrin

I think the reason you haven’t had any shock is because your power supplies are perhaps older than 2017?

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Danlake  
#74 Posted : 09 October 2019 10:56:01(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
So it looks like Marklin has finally acknowledge the issue discussed in this thread. I did have various correspondence with Frank Mayer when I first reported this issue to them and even though the safety notice appears also to be a legal disclaimer, at least they acknowledge there can be leak current, and it can be uncomfortable, it won’t be harmful.

So thank you Marklin for taking it seriously and listening to your customers (not meant in irony) ThumpUp

See below link for full documentation or read extract here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...rische_Sicherheit_en.pdf

Today's switching power supplies, which are necessary for the conversion of the mains voltage into a low voltage for the supply of the control system and loads on a model railway, require an interference suppression circuit to comply with the EMC regulations. However, this can lead to a leakage current flowing between the potential on a rail and a protective conductor of your domestic installation. If, for example, you connect the live rails with one hand and the protective conductor of the house installation with the other hand (e.g. metal back panels of computers or power tools can have this connection) or to an earthed object (e.g. a radiator), you close the circuit for this leakage current.
All Märklin supply units have been tested to ensure that the limit of 0.5 mA for such a leakage current, which is listed as safe and in many standards, is not exceeded. Sensitive people can, however, already feel such a current of this magnitude under certain circumstances as a tingling current flow at least in parts of the body.

What are the dangers of electric shock?
A current flow only occurs when the supply and return conductors of an electrical supply source are connected to each other via a conductive material. The human body is capable of doing just that. One then speaks of an electric shock, which the affected person suffers.
The damage that can occur depends on many factors:
 The level of the applied voltage
 The type of current and its frequency
 How much electricity flows
 The exposure time
 The path through the body
 Possibly existing technical components such as cardiac pacemakers
Voltages above 60 volts can cause life-threatening injuries in the event of an electric shock. The supply voltage of the model railway is therefore limited to a maximum of 24 V. No loads with a higher supply voltage may be used on the model railway.
The amount of current at which a current flow is perceived is between 0.01 mA and 4 mA, depending on the circumstances. Currents up to 0.5 mA are classified as harmless. Currents up to approx. 5 mA do not lead to injuries in a healthy adult, but they do mean an unpleasant perception of the current flow. If you comply with the requirements of this document, you can be sure that, according to the current state of knowledge, there is no danger of dangerous leakage currents in your system.

Best Regards
Lasse

Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#75 Posted : 09 October 2019 12:55:54(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post

See below link for full documentation or read extract here:

https://www.maerklin.de/...rische_Sicherheit_en.pdf



This looks like it could be an english translation of a german document that has been around for a while.

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