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Offline foumaro  
#151 Posted : 27 November 2017 11:58:50(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
The locomotive is perfect.The white color on the wheels is simply amazing.LOL Love ThumpUp


Glad your pleased with it, I will have to weight for it to be released in original SNCF livery. Can you try it on radius 36? Pleeeeese[/quo


Unfortunately i do not have her yet.I must admire her only in pictures and videos.Crying
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Offline mike c  
#152 Posted : 27 November 2017 16:19:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,645
Location: Montreal, QC
I wonder if there are still any good models of the DEV Inox coaches on the market? I think that Jouef/Rivarossi had some at one point, but I don't know if they were up to current norms (Close couplers, etc).
That would seem to be a good match. I guess a mix of SNCF, SBB (Heavy Steel), CIWL would make a nice Calais-Italy consist, which would have been very appropriate for the pre-diesel period in France.

Regards

Mike C
Offline jvuye  
#153 Posted : 27 November 2017 21:02:56(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if there are still any good models of the DEV Inox coaches on the market? I think that Jouef/Rivarossi had some at one point, but I don't know if they were up to current norms (Close couplers, etc).
That would seem to be a good match. I guess a mix of SNCF, SBB (Heavy Steel), CIWL would make a nice Calais-Italy consist, which would have been very appropriate for the pre-diesel period in France.

Regards

Mike C


I think Jouef/Hornby is re-issuing a range of new coaches.
I have my dealer in Paris keeping an eye on that....Cool Wink
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Leitner  
#154 Posted : 29 November 2017 20:32:40(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Do you think it's realistic my dealer told me that I ordered the locomtoive quite late and I'll receive it only next year in february?
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline Kapalua  
#155 Posted : 29 November 2017 21:15:32(UTC)
Kapalua

Denmark   
Joined: 22/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.
Offline Leitner  
#156 Posted : 29 November 2017 23:12:50(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.



Also the Iphone is Made in China and I don't see anybody complaining. I just got an induction stove from Siemens, price €2.000+, Made in Germany, after they installed it they discovered it doesn't work and I'm waiting for a new one. Imagine my happiness.

It is not about where the stuff is made, is about quality control.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
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Offline dickinsonj  
#157 Posted : 30 November 2017 02:41:05(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.


This was also true for Märklin's 37015/16/17 S 2/6 locos and all of those very detailed ESU Engineering Edition locos too. I have seen speculation that the same Korean company that builds the ESU locos in China produced the 37015 as well. I have assumed all along that the 39241 would be made in the same way, or it would not have the incredible level of detail that it has.

My 37015 is beautifully detailed and operates perfectly, so Chinese manufacturing is fine with me. I'm certain that if these models were made in Germany they would be quite expensive. I believe that all Märklin top level locos will be made in China in the future or they would probably be too expensive for me to even consider buying.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline mrmarklin  
#158 Posted : 30 November 2017 05:09:25(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 819
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.


This is likely true.

In a discussion I had (with others present) with Herr Sieber, head of Märklin,he stated that 37015 was certainly made in China, and that likely Märklin would produce at least one Lok per year from that manufacturer. I think that last years Challenger would also fit that model.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#159 Posted : 30 November 2017 09:17:03(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
I also have both 37016 and 37017 and I am very happy with them ( I would gladly get a 37015 sometime in the future). To be honest before getting in my hands my 37016, I had the some fears about the "made in China" label. I was wrong!!! These steamers are excellent both visually as mechanically. Just hope that the 39241 (which I ordered to my local shop) is as good as 37016 and 37017.

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline pab  
#160 Posted : 30 November 2017 12:17:29(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,684
Got my Märklin 39241 last Tuesday.
The dealer told that he at least could sell double the number he ordered. Luckily I ordered directly after I saw the first picture.

A first picture of this beautiful machine on my lay-out

UserPostedImage
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Offline dickinsonj  
#161 Posted : 30 November 2017 14:52:04(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin Go to Quoted Post
In a discussion I had (with others present) with Herr Sieber, head of Märklin,he stated that 37015 was certainly made in China, and that likely Märklin would produce at least one Lok per year from that manufacturer. I think that last years Challenger would also fit that model.

I agree that the Challenger fits that model, although mine does not have any country of origin label at all, and neither does my 37015. They both just state that they were made by Märklin and not where specifically. My Insider 103 has an added sticker stating that it was made in Germany, so perhaps without that label we can assume that it was made elsewhere.

It doesn't really matter to me where Märklin's models are made as long as the quality is good, but I wonder how they are getting around the US requirement to label the country of origin for products sold here. My iPhone packaging states that it was "designed by Apple in California and assembled in China".
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#162 Posted : 30 November 2017 14:54:41(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: pab Go to Quoted Post

A first picture of this beautiful machine on my lay-out


Wow! Thanks for posting that great image. Cool

It is as beautiful as I have imagined that it would be. I am eagerly awaiting mine, although there will no doubt be some significant delay in it finding its way to me here in the US.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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pab
Offline Leitner  
#163 Posted : 30 November 2017 15:25:47(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
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Offline RayF  
#164 Posted : 30 November 2017 15:28:29(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,694
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.


Are you sure that is true? None of my recent Marklin boxes have any country of origin marked on them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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H0
Offline mrmarklin  
#165 Posted : 30 November 2017 15:38:50(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 819
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.


This is not so, at least in Germany. If a US person buys an item from a German dealer and has the dealer send it , there will be no country of origin noted.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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H0
Offline Leitner  
#166 Posted : 30 November 2017 17:26:08(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
I Import hundreds of containers from China per year, believe me, european rules impose that the country of origin, CE marking and importer/manufacturer hq in europe adress is clearly visible.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline foumaro  
#167 Posted : 01 December 2017 05:10:28(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
For the members who allready have the locomotine?What your impressions are?Mine is coming next week.Love LOL ThumpUp
Offline kimballthurlow  
#168 Posted : 01 December 2017 10:55:55(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,839
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.


Yes probably on the bulk, not on the individual packages.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#169 Posted : 01 December 2017 11:01:35(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,839
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if there are still any good models of the DEV Inox coaches on the market? I think that Jouef/Rivarossi had some at one point, but I don't know if they were up to current norms (Close couplers, etc).
That would seem to be a good match. I guess a mix of SNCF, SBB (Heavy Steel), CIWL would make a nice Calais-Italy consist, which would have been very appropriate for the pre-diesel period in France.

Regards

Mike C


Marklin and Hornby Acho also did INOX coaches in HO in 1950s/60s.
They were used on the Mistral from Paris to the Mediterranean, along with a few CIWL coaches.
As did Vb if you can find them.
I have heard said that Hornby are the better models.
For what reasons I cannot tell, because I don't own any.

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline danmarklinman  
#170 Posted : 01 December 2017 11:24:11(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,129
Just to share a bit of my knowledge on French railways, is that if you wanted to use Marklin coaches with your 241a, the ideal and correct coach would actually be a Marklin 4245 or even 43228 mixed in? There were a lot of ex German stock on the line to Strasbourg From Gare du EST in Paris.
The 241a were withdrawn in the late 1950s and replaced with anther Marklin model, 37335 or Flat iron.
But you could use what you like as it does not have to be exact, because its your layout😁👍
Also it’s a Museum lok
Marklin SNCF/SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline Leitner  
#171 Posted : 01 December 2017 14:12:44(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
It's also required on the individual package and on the product itself.

Years ago one of my suppliers made a mistake and put a sticker over the "Made in China" marking of every single item of a product in a container I was importing, the custom found it and I had a criminal complaint which was shortly aftewrards dismissed because they understood that the mistake was made by the chinese and that on all the other products in the same containers actually Made In China was clearly visible.

Long story short, according to law a box should appear like the one in the pic below, that's because the consumer must be clearly informed about origin of products.

IMG_20171130_172742.jpg
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Leitner
Offline RayF  
#172 Posted : 01 December 2017 19:13:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,694
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
It's also required on the individual package and on the product itself.

Years ago one of my suppliers made a mistake and put a sticker over the "Made in China" marking of every single item of a product in a container I was importing, the custom found it and I had a criminal complaint which was shortly aftewrards dismissed because they understood that the mistake was made by the chinese and that on all the other products in the same containers actually Made In China was clearly visible.

Long story short, according to law a box should appear like the one in the pic below, that's because the consumer must be clearly informed about origin of products.

IMG_20171130_172742.jpg


Someone should tell Marklin that.

I just checked the last three boxes of my Marklin trains bought this year. One says "Made in the European Union" and the other two have no "Made in..." information at all.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Unholz  
#173 Posted : 01 December 2017 20:45:14(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,203
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Someone should tell Marklin that.


I don't think so. Although a German lawyer would be far better qualified to answer the question, I think it is currently still not required in Germany to put a "Made in China" label on the boxes of goods manufactured there. It is only forbidden to put a "Made in Germany" sticker on goods not made in Germany. Wink Thus it is not illegal to entirely omit mentioning the country of origin. The EU planned to change this situation a couple of years ago, but the necessary majority of votes was not achieved.

The customs declaration that is required when importing the goods is a completely separate topic where other rules apply.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany (sorry - as usual the new forum software doesn't seem to create a link where I intend one to be ThumbDown )
Offline Leitner  
#174 Posted : 01 December 2017 21:47:24(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
I don't know if Germany already receipt this law, but still..


https://www.reuters.com/...ls-idUSBREA3E1MB20140415
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline H0  
#175 Posted : 09 December 2017 09:07:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
My Insider 103 has an added sticker stating that it was made in Germany, so perhaps without that label we can assume that it was made elsewhere.
No, not even that. Items without "Made in ..." could still be mostly made in Germany.
Items with "Made in EU" could still be 49% made in China.

Items sold through official US importers will have that sticker, "grey imports" sourced from EU dealers will not have them.

Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.
There are no European laws, there are EU regulations that states have to turn into national laws.

Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
I don't know if Germany already receipt this law, but still..
https://www.reuters.com/...ls-idUSBREA3E1MB20140415
It seems this was the first reading only. Not yet legally binding for EU member states AIUI.
Some of Märklin's colourful Startup boxes have "Made in ..." printed on them, but I haven't seen that on grey or black boxes in the past few years. So it seems there is still no legal requirement for German companies to put that on the box.

Pictures on Fartbook show the "Made in China" sticker on the box of the 241.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#176 Posted : 10 December 2017 10:43:50(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
39241 soon available again (possible in 2018) - Muller link in stummiforum, maybe a fool.

Let wait and see in 2018.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline dickinsonj  
#177 Posted : 11 December 2017 02:02:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
39241 soon available again (possible in 2018) - Muller link in stummiforum, maybe a fool.


Cool.

I expect new versions of the SNCF 241 with different era details to become available over the next couple of years and maybe some with fictitious liveries as well. That seems to be normal Märklin practice these days.

The S 2/6 only actually ran in the green Bavarian livery (37015), although DB appears to have painted it in their red/black livery (37016) at some point later on. I don't think that there ever was any prototype for the blue one (37017), although I could live with that, since it is quite handsome in that livery.

I expect something similar will happen with the 241 and then after a few iterations it will be gone forever until the next special model comes along. Personally I like this model of sales and collecting, because it makes their special models even more special - assuming that you are lucky enough to acquire one! BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline H0  
#178 Posted : 11 December 2017 08:25:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
The S 2/6 only actually ran in the green Bavarian livery (37015), although DB appears to have painted it in their red/black livery (37016) at some point later on.
Many people doubt that the green livery of the 37015 was authentic.
The loco was retired in 1925, the DB was established in 1949.
With such old locos there is always speculation about the liveries they had.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline didinieki  
#179 Posted : 11 December 2017 13:25:35(UTC)
didinieki

Germany   
Joined: 11/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Rheinland/Pfalz
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kapalua Go to Quoted Post
I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.


This is likely true.

In a discussion I had (with others present) with Herr Sieber, head of Märklin,he stated that 37015 was certainly made in China, and that likely Märklin would produce at least one Lok per year from that manufacturer. I think that last years Challenger would also fit that model.



Too much speculations!

According to Herrn Sieber, Owner of Märklin, the 37015 was a one time deal because the circumstances, he explained the details at that point in time.

And, according to Herrn Sieber, all future high level products will be made by and made in Göppingen, Germany. They have special forces in Göppingen to make high level products that can not be made in their second production place, Hungria. Especially the metal production can only be made in Göppingen.

The price of 599 Euro (UVP) Street price is 10% off if you have a good relationship to your dealer and you are a welcome customer, ist high enough to support this production in Göppingen. Usual costs for a steam loco from Märklin are usually around 400-450 Euro. The 600 Euro price for the 241A-65 is supporting this level of detail and production.

And - as the 37015 product already, Märklin could have sell 3 times more Locos, as well as the 37015, and also the 39241. Both locos where sold out right after the presentation. And i am sure, the 39241 will have a second production series, because they can do it in Göppingen.

In my case, i can say, i rather buy only one exceptionel modell every two or 3 years, like the Channger, or BigBoy ect., than cheap stuff in numbers every year.

greets from Germany
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Offline didinieki  
#180 Posted : 11 December 2017 13:31:31(UTC)
didinieki

Germany   
Joined: 11/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Rheinland/Pfalz
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
I Import hundreds of containers from China per year, believe me, european rules impose that the country of origin, CE marking and importer/manufacturer hq in europe adress is clearly visible.


Neither my Märklin 39241, nor the packaging box has any label of origin. If any, as i know, it is good enough if you label it as "made in Europe".

Now, did anybody buy the 39241 in USA and can tell if there is an origin label on it?
Offline dickinsonj  
#181 Posted : 11 December 2017 13:46:03(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post

Now, did anybody buy the 39241 in USA and can tell if there is an origin label on it?

I have one on order, and if it arrives with a country of origin sticker I will post again after I receive it.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#182 Posted : 11 December 2017 14:43:02(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

I expect new versions of the SNCF 241 with different era details to become available over the next couple of years and maybe some with fictitious liveries as well. That seems to be normal Märklin practice these days.


I could see it being issued as the Nurnberg Toy fair loco, probably as a weathered or snow weathered version. That would also be very popular, and probably have a longer ordering cycle, so more manufactured?

I could go a snow weathered one.

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Offline Leitner  
#183 Posted : 12 December 2017 02:33:43(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
My Insider 103 has an added sticker stating that it was made in Germany, so perhaps without that label we can assume that it was made elsewhere.
No, not even that. Items without "Made in ..." could still be mostly made in Germany.
Items with "Made in EU" could still be 49% made in China.

Items sold through official US importers will have that sticker, "grey imports" sourced from EU dealers will not have them.

Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.
There are no European laws, there are EU regulations that states have to turn into national laws.

Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
I don't know if Germany already receipt this law, but still..
https://www.reuters.com/...ls-idUSBREA3E1MB20140415
It seems this was the first reading only. Not yet legally binding for EU member states AIUI.
Some of Märklin's colourful Startup boxes have "Made in ..." printed on them, but I haven't seen that on grey or black boxes in the past few years. So it seems there is still no legal requirement for German companies to put that on the box.

Pictures on Fartbook show the "Made in China" sticker on the box of the 241.


"european laws" for the sake of simplicity, in any case several states has already turned into law (Italy for example) so for selling in Italy they should be required to put "Made in whatever" clearly visible.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline H0  
#184 Posted : 12 December 2017 07:49:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post

Now, did anybody buy the 39241 in USA and can tell if there is an origin label on it?

I have one on order, and if it arrives with a country of origin sticker I will post again after I receive it.
Somebody posted a photo of the Made in China sticker on Facebook.

Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post
Too much speculations!
And you only have hearsay to counter it.

Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post
And, according to Herrn Sieber, all future high level products will be made by and made in Göppingen, Germany.
Can we have that in writing from an official source?

Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post
Especially the metal production can only be made in Göppingen.
Märklin produce all metal parts in Göppingen, they always say.
But sometimes they buy metal locos that were made in China. Zinc die-cast is no rocket science.


Last year I met the boss of Brima and he told us that he had heard from Mr Sieber that there was no more production in China.
Now, one year later, we see the 241 with "Made in China" on the box. I have little confidence when people tell me what they heard from Mr Sieber.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Unholz  
#185 Posted : 12 December 2017 11:26:09(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,203
Location: Switzerland
And now Märklin is offering a limited series of 999 two-axle passenger cars which are supposed to "match" the locomotive and also "recreate the imagination" of the passenger cars used by the society currently owning the locomotive: http://www.roundhouse.ch...d-Neuheiten.htm#4107.039 Well, hmmm... ThumbDown - but at least they want to donate 5 Euros per sold carriage to the mentioned society. ThumpUp
Offline Nigel Packer  
#186 Posted : 12 December 2017 11:41:05(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 584
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Last year I met the boss of Brima and he told us that he had heard from Mr Sieber that there was no more production in China.
Now, one year later, we see the 241 with "Made in China" on the box. I have little confidence when people tell me what they heard from Mr Sieber.



I arranged that meeting with Mr Sieber and Uwe, so I was there too!

I am no big fan of China, but I can see why Märklin need to have some specific high-end models made there. I just wish Märklin was a bit more clear about it. They could use Apple’s approach, and print something like “Designed in Göppingen, carefully made in China” on the boxes.

This would remove all the speculation, and give a much better impression than putting crude “Made in China” stickers on some of the boxes.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#187 Posted : 12 December 2017 11:56:06(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
And now Märklin is offering a limited series of 999 two-axle passenger cars which are supposed to "match" the locomotive and also "recreate the imagination" of the passenger cars used by the society currently owning the locomotive: http://www.roundhouse.ch...d-Neuheiten.htm#4107.039 Well, hmmm... ThumbDown - but at least they want to donate 5 Euros per sold carriage to the mentioned society. ThumpUp


Well, that wagon looks like it is a Swiss special item, and at that price, even with a 5€ donation is rather steep!

If they were going to do that they could have at least produced the wagon that the loco hauled around for its support crew.

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Offline Unholz  
#188 Posted : 12 December 2017 13:56:38(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,203
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

If they were going to do that they could have at least produced the wagon that the loco hauled around for its support crew.

I fully agree, but that would have required completely new tooling and thus not the same steep profit they will probably make with this cheaply repainted item. Sneaky

Offline Mark_1602  
#189 Posted : 12 December 2017 16:23:25(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: didinieki Go to Quoted Post


And - as the 37015 product already, Märklin could have sell 3 times more Locos, as well as the 37015, and also the 39241. Both locos where sold out right after the presentation. And i am sure, the 39241 will have a second production series, because they can do it in Göppingen.

greets from Germany


Hi,

I doubt if they could have sold three times as many copies of those locos. Sure, such models sell out quickly because they are really attractive, but all the hype about those items being 'rare' (whatever that means) contributes to their success. To create that impression (or rather illusion), they can't make too many. In the early 1990s, production runs for MHI items used to be about 15,000, but now that figure is down to 4,000. Selling three times as many would definitely backfire ...

I don't know what the production run of the 37015 was, but I guess it was higher than 4,000 because that was new tooling unlike MHI items. Probably such items are made in China because they can't sell very large production runs of special items; they wouldn't be profitable if they were made in Europe.

That's not an excuse for Märklin, though. Since 2009, I've bought a large number of Märklin freight cars, and I'm convinced that many of them were made in China. Unusual printing codes on the boxes are a tell-tale sign, and I've seen those on quite a lot of boxes in the last few years. Why do those have to be made in China? They aren't special items. The same goes for the new tooling Märklin Nohabs introduced a few years ago. I don't mind buying those Nohabs or the feight cars though because they're not worse than Märklin items made in Hungary. Why not put 'Made in' on the box and be done with it?

Why do you think that a second production series of the 39241 will be made in Göppingen? As some people tell us in this thread, the 39241 was apparently made in China, which means that the original molds that are used to make the die-cast metal parts are located somewhere in a Chinese factory, not in Göppingen. Obviously the following versions will be made in the same place. When Märklin transferred the production of some models from China back to Europe, the molds had to be recovered in China and transported to Europe. Some were damaged as they had been left out in the rain, apparently. That's what Märklin told us back then, but I don't believe their stories anymore. I'm still a true Märklin fan and I like Mr Sieber because the company will survive thanks to his family, but his priority is to make a profit every year. The old Märklin company that made the vintage items many years ago could be trusted to produce very good quality, but that's gone.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline foumaro  
#190 Posted : 12 December 2017 21:09:14(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Got mine today,no stickers,the locomotive is amazing,running nice to my layout.I hope she will be perfect for a lot of years from now on.LOL Love ThumpUp Wub
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Offline foumaro  
#191 Posted : 13 December 2017 08:06:30(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
The locomotive is perfect.The white color on the wheels is simply amazing.LOL Love ThumpUp


Glad your pleased with it, I will have to weight for it to be released in original SNCF livery. Can you try it on radius 36? Pleeeeese


She is running perfect,my layout have R1 tracks.Maybe the sounds are high.When i found time i will fix the sounds,acceleration and braking delay of the locomotive in my taste with my beloved 6021,i do not know the way to do it with my CS2.Love
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Offline H0  
#192 Posted : 13 December 2017 08:16:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
I am no big fan of China, but I can see why Märklin need to have some specific high-end models made there. I just wish Märklin was a bit more clear about it.
That's the point.
Märklin announce that they will transfer further product lines from China to Europe - and the Märklin fan remembers that production in China has ended. They remember that all metal parts are made in Göppingen.

It's not just Märklin. I don't have any Roco items marked "Made in China" (Roco say production in China is now over), I don't have Piko items marked "Made in China", I only have one Märklin loco marked "Made in China" (BR 24).

I am willing to support "Made in Germany". Would be good to have the country of origin declaration in the product database, the catalogue, and the web shops. But I also want to know how much "Made in Far East" I buy when the box shows "Made in Germany".

Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"european laws" for the sake of simplicity, in any case several states has already turned into law (Italy for example) so for selling in Italy they should be required to put "Made in whatever" clearly visible.
We have several active Italian members here. Maybe they can report what "Made in ..." they see on items from Märklin, Piko, Roco, and others.

Europe is large, including England, Norway, Swiss, Russia, and Turkey. "European laws" is a wide field.

Here is an article from the German Handelsblatt saying that there will be no EU requirement to declare the country of origin in the near future:
http://www.handelsblatt....die-bremse/11843702.html

To me it seems the EU parliament wants this, but had not yet turned this into a binding EU regulation. National laws in Italy may have different requirements. Italy is named as one of 12 EU countries who want this requirement - but Germany and the Netherlands are amongst the opponents.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline foumaro  
#193 Posted : 14 December 2017 13:34:31(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece

I spent a week pretended to be considering if I should get it or not, but I never seriously wondered if I would order it. No clue when it will find me here in rural USA, but I am sure that it will be at least January or later.



I have just noticed that,very nice.LOL Love ThumpUp Wub
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Offline jvuye  
#194 Posted : 14 December 2017 21:03:08(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post

I spent a week pretended to be considering if I should get it or not, but I never seriously wondered if I would order it. No clue when it will find me here in rural USA, but I am sure that it will be at least January or later.



I have just noticed that,very nice.LOL Love ThumpUp Wub


Mine finally arrived here today.
Sorry guys, I won't spent much time here on the computer tonight!
Laugh Wink
Cheers
Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#195 Posted : 14 December 2017 22:41:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post

I spent a week pretended to be considering if I should get it or not, but I never seriously wondered if I would order it. No clue when it will find me here in rural USA, but I am sure that it will be at least January or later.



I have just noticed that,very nice.LOL Love ThumpUp Wub


Mine finally arrived here today.
Sorry guys, I won't spent much time here on the computer tonight!
Laugh Wink
Cheers
Jacques



That's all right, so long as you produce a video like the one you posted earlier over in the thread on cameras ... ThumpUp

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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#196 Posted : 15 December 2017 14:44:31(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello Everybody,

Waiting for my 39241 to arrive sometime in the future, I am curious to know about a special feature I have noticed last night (on a YouTube review). The loco has running gear lights installed on each side. 4 lights on each side (just above the running gear). It sure is a very cool feature. Does anybody know if this is a prototypical feature, or it is something included to the model just to make it more appealing?

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline jvuye  
#197 Posted : 15 December 2017 17:18:12(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Hello Everybody,

Waiting for my 39241 to arrive sometime in the future, I am curious to know about a special feature I have noticed last night (on a YouTube review). The loco has running gear lights installed on each side. 4 lights on each side (just above the running gear). It sure is a very cool feature. Does anybody know if this is a prototypical feature, or it is something included to the model just to make it more appealing?

Regards

Paris


Hi Paris
Yes they are prototypical! (....and cool indeed on a model too)
Steam locos require servicing at each stop basically.
A few parts of the mechanism are lubricated from a central oil distribution system, but for a number of articulations, it is plain impossible do lubricate except with a small local reservoir that has to be periodically replenished.
Enabling the engineer/ fireman to see clearly during night services is a necessity, hence the presence of these lights.
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#198 Posted : 15 December 2017 22:01:02(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Thank you Jacques

It makes perfect sense!!!

Best Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline kiwiAlan  
#199 Posted : 16 December 2017 00:55:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Thank you Jacques

It makes perfect sense!!!

Best Regards

Paris


It is not the first Marklin steam loco to have these.

Offline dickinsonj  
#200 Posted : 16 December 2017 02:08:33(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Hi Paris
Yes they are prototypical! ...

Indeed they are and IMO a special mention needs to be made about these lights. I was aware of the running gear lights on the prototype and I wondered how this detail would be handled by Märklin.

I have other Märklin steam locos with running gear lights and they are mounted under the boiler and the lighting on the drive train looks very nice. But on the SNCF 241 the lights look pretty much exactly like they do on the prototype - same number, same light fixture and the same placement. Perfect attention to detail and at an affordable price. Many forum members point out whenever Märklin screws up and I admit that they do sometimes, but some of their HO models today are the nicest that I have seen in my over 30 years of collecting their products. Cool

Edited by user 16 December 2017 15:01:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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