I think Jouef/Hornby is re-issuing a range of new coaches.
I have my dealer in Paris keeping an eye on that....

I learned today that the Marklin 39241 that I was interested in buying is not made by Marklin.
Marklin of course designed and did all the CAD work etc. but production was sourced to China.
Marklin "quote" said that they could not sell the Locomotive at that price if they had to make it themselves.

This was also true for Märklin's 37015/16/17 S 2/6 locos and all of those very detailed ESU Engineering Edition locos too. I have seen speculation that the same Korean company that builds the ESU locos in China produced the 37015 as well. I have assumed all along that the 39241 would be made in the same way, or it would not have the incredible level of detail that it has.

My 37015 is beautifully detailed and operates perfectly, so Chinese manufacturing is fine with me. I'm certain that if these models were made in Germany they would be quite expensive. I believe that all Märklin top level locos will be made in China in the future or they would probably be too expensive for me to even consider buying.

I also have both 37016 and 37017 and I am very happy with them ( I would gladly get a 37015 sometime in the future). To be honest before getting in my hands my 37016, I had the some fears about the "made in China" label. I was wrong!!! These steamers are excellent both visually as mechanically. Just hope that the 39241 (which I ordered to my local shop) is as good as 37016 and 37017.

Regards

Paris

I agree that the Challenger fits that model, although mine does not have any country of origin label at all, and neither does my 37015. They both just state that they were made by Märklin and not where specifically. My Insider 103 has an added sticker stating that it was made in Germany, so perhaps without that label we can assume that it was made elsewhere.

It doesn't really matter to me where Märklin's models are made as long as the quality is good, but I wonder how they are getting around the US requirement to label the country of origin for products sold here. My iPhone packaging states that it was "designed by Apple in California and assembled in China".

European laws requires that the country of origin is clearly marked.

This is not so, at least in Germany. If a US person buys an item from a German dealer and has the dealer send it , there will be no country of origin noted.

For the members who allready have the locomotine?What your impressions are?Mine is coming next week.

Marklin and Hornby Acho also did INOX coaches in HO in 1950s/60s.
They were used on the Mistral from Paris to the Mediterranean, along with a few CIWL coaches.
As did Vb if you can find them.
I have heard said that Hornby are the better models.
For what reasons I cannot tell, because I don't own any.

Kimball

I don't think so. Although a German lawyer would be far better qualified to answer the question, I think it is currently still not required in Germany to put a "Made in China" label on the boxes of goods manufactured there. It is only forbidden to put a "Made in Germany" sticker on goods not made in Germany. Thus it is not illegal to entirely omit mentioning the country of origin. The EU planned to change this situation a couple of years ago, but the necessary majority of votes was not achieved.

The customs declaration that is required when importing the goods is a completely separate topic where other rules apply.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany (sorry - as usual the new forum software doesn't seem to create a link where I intend one to be )

No, not even that. Items without "Made in ..." could still be mostly made in Germany.
Items with "Made in EU" could still be 49% made in China.

Items sold through official US importers will have that sticker, "grey imports" sourced from EU dealers will not have them.

There are no European laws, there are EU regulations that states have to turn into national laws.

It seems this was the first reading only. Not yet legally binding for EU member states AIUI.
Some of Märklin's colourful Startup boxes have "Made in ..." printed on them, but I haven't seen that on grey or black boxes in the past few years. So it seems there is still no legal requirement for German companies to put that on the box.

Pictures on Fartbook show the "Made in China" sticker on the box of the 241.

Cool.

I expect new versions of the SNCF 241 with different era details to become available over the next couple of years and maybe some with fictitious liveries as well. That seems to be normal Märklin practice these days.

The S 2/6 only actually ran in the green Bavarian livery (37015), although DB appears to have painted it in their red/black livery (37016) at some point later on. I don't think that there ever was any prototype for the blue one (37017), although I could live with that, since it is quite handsome in that livery.

I expect something similar will happen with the 241 and then after a few iterations it will be gone forever until the next special model comes along. Personally I like this model of sales and collecting, because it makes their special models even more special - assuming that you are lucky enough to acquire one!

Too much speculations!

According to Herrn Sieber, Owner of Märklin, the 37015 was a one time deal because the circumstances, he explained the details at that point in time.

And, according to Herrn Sieber, all future high level products will be made by and made in Göppingen, Germany. They have special forces in Göppingen to make high level products that can not be made in their second production place, Hungria. Especially the metal production can only be made in Göppingen.

The price of 599 Euro (UVP) Street price is 10% off if you have a good relationship to your dealer and you are a welcome customer, ist high enough to support this production in Göppingen. Usual costs for a steam loco from Märklin are usually around 400-450 Euro. The 600 Euro price for the 241A-65 is supporting this level of detail and production.

And - as the 37015 product already, Märklin could have sell 3 times more Locos, as well as the 37015, and also the 39241. Both locos where sold out right after the presentation. And i am sure, the 39241 will have a second production series, because they can do it in Göppingen.

In my case, i can say, i rather buy only one exceptionel modell every two or 3 years, like the Channger, or BigBoy ect., than cheap stuff in numbers every year.

greets from Germany

I have one on order, and if it arrives with a country of origin sticker I will post again after I receive it.

"european laws" for the sake of simplicity, in any case several states has already turned into law (Italy for example) so for selling in Italy they should be required to put "Made in whatever" clearly visible.

And now Märklin is offering a limited series of 999 two-axle passenger cars which are supposed to "match" the locomotive and also "recreate the imagination" of the passenger cars used by the society currently owning the locomotive: http://www.roundhouse.ch...d-Neuheiten.htm#4107.039 Well, hmmm... - but at least they want to donate 5 Euros per sold carriage to the mentioned society.

Well, that wagon looks like it is a Swiss special item, and at that price, even with a 5€ donation is rather steep!

If they were going to do that they could have at least produced the wagon that the loco hauled around for its support crew.

Hi,

I doubt if they could have sold three times as many copies of those locos. Sure, such models sell out quickly because they are really attractive, but all the hype about those items being 'rare' (whatever that means) contributes to their success. To create that impression (or rather illusion), they can't make too many. In the early 1990s, production runs for MHI items used to be about 15,000, but now that figure is down to 4,000. Selling three times as many would definitely backfire ...

I don't know what the production run of the 37015 was, but I guess it was higher than 4,000 because that was new tooling unlike MHI items. Probably such items are made in China because they can't sell very large production runs of special items; they wouldn't be profitable if they were made in Europe.

That's not an excuse for Märklin, though. Since 2009, I've bought a large number of Märklin freight cars, and I'm convinced that many of them were made in China. Unusual printing codes on the boxes are a tell-tale sign, and I've seen those on quite a lot of boxes in the last few years. Why do those have to be made in China? They aren't special items. The same goes for the new tooling Märklin Nohabs introduced a few years ago. I don't mind buying those Nohabs or the feight cars though because they're not worse than Märklin items made in Hungary. Why not put 'Made in' on the box and be done with it?

Why do you think that a second production series of the 39241 will be made in Göppingen? As some people tell us in this thread, the 39241 was apparently made in China, which means that the original molds that are used to make the die-cast metal parts are located somewhere in a Chinese factory, not in Göppingen. Obviously the following versions will be made in the same place. When Märklin transferred the production of some models from China back to Europe, the molds had to be recovered in China and transported to Europe. Some were damaged as they had been left out in the rain, apparently. That's what Märklin told us back then, but I don't believe their stories anymore. I'm still a true Märklin fan and I like Mr Sieber because the company will survive thanks to his family, but his priority is to make a profit every year. The old Märklin company that made the vintage items many years ago could be trusted to produce very good quality, but that's gone.

Best regards,

Mark

She is running perfect,my layout have R1 tracks.Maybe the sounds are high.When i found time i will fix the sounds,acceleration and braking delay of the locomotive in my taste with my beloved 6021,i do not know the way to do it with my CS2.

I spent a week pretended to be considering if I should get it or not, but I never seriously wondered if I would order it. No clue when it will find me here in rural USA, but I am sure that it will be at least January or later.



I have just noticed that,very nice.

That's all right, so long as you produce a video like the one you posted earlier over in the thread on cameras ...

Hi Paris
Yes they are prototypical! (....and cool indeed on a model too)
Steam locos require servicing at each stop basically.
A few parts of the mechanism are lubricated from a central oil distribution system, but for a number of articulations, it is plain impossible do lubricate except with a small local reservoir that has to be periodically replenished.
Enabling the engineer/ fireman to see clearly during night services is a necessity, hence the presence of these lights.

It is not the first Marklin steam loco to have these.