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Offline Nigel Packer  
#101 Posted : 09 November 2017 14:55:36(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 584
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

If they don't limit the number of an item in this way then they risk having a quantity of unsold stock stacked up at the factory that represents capital tied up in stock that doesn't sell.




My understanding is that the production quantity of the 241 A 65 is 1,800, and Märklin has already taken orders for all of them.

Maybe there'll be another version some time in the future . . .

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline Leitner  
#102 Posted : 09 November 2017 17:09:14(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Only 1.800? Are you sure?
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline kiwiAlan  
#103 Posted : 09 November 2017 18:13:34(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
Only 1.800? Are you sure?


Sounds a bit low to me as well, but I know Nigel has contacts ...

Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#104 Posted : 09 November 2017 20:53:07(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

If they don't limit the number of an item in this way then they risk having a quantity of unsold stock stacked up at the factory that represents capital tied up in stock that doesn't sell.




My understanding is that the production quantity of the 241 A 65 is 1,800, and Märklin has already taken orders for all of them.

Maybe there'll be another version some time in the future . . .

Nigel


A Friend who was present at the presentation of 39241 at Marklin factory this past September made this question to the Marklin officials. They told him that this locomotive will be produced in 10.000 pieces.

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline Leitner  
#105 Posted : 09 November 2017 21:00:04(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
I think 10.000 makes more sense, I remember that some years ago I read that the costs for a new mold is around one million euro, so I assume they at least need to break even...

If their margin is around 150-180 euro per locomotive (take it as pure speculation, I have no idea of their real costs) I think that 10.000pcs make sense.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline Nigel Packer  
#106 Posted : 09 November 2017 23:26:43(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 584
Location: Cheshire, UK
The number I quoted is the number for the German market.

Märklin has over-produced some the recent high-end or special models (for example the Ontario Northland F7, and the gold VT11.5), and this has a negative effect on prices, values and future sales. So perhaps the modest quantity of this new loco is a cautious strategy, especially as it has a premium price.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
Offline dickinsonj  
#107 Posted : 10 November 2017 01:14:04(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post

My understanding is that the production quantity of the 241 A 65 is 1,800, and Märklin has already taken orders for all of them.

Maybe there'll be another version some time in the future . . .

Nigel

Interesting - thanks for the information Nigel. I bet that another version is a while away yet and I am not getting any younger. BigGrin

I don't see how a model like the new 241.A.65 could be a big money maker for Märklin. I am guessing that they do models like this for prestige and to make it look like they are still at the top of the heap in the MRR world, when that really has not been the case for a while. I saw a toy appraiser call Märklin the Rolls Royce of toy trains once, and I thought, not any more - more like maybe Audi or even VW. BigGrin

The level of add on detail and the number of hand painted parts on the 241.A.65 are both much greater than in most Märklin products and the price is only marginally more. I am guessing that it is being made in China and that the subcontractor will just make the number which Märklin ordered. That I believe was the case with the 37015 as well and why there were never more of them made.

My 37015 is perfect in detail, paint, lettering and operation, so the "made in China part" is not an issue for me. I believe unfortunately that Chinese or Korean manufacturing is the key to reasonably priced, high tech gear in today's world. In a perfect world a model like this would all be made in Göppingen, but then of course I would no doubt be a millionaire and not even care what it cost. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Leitner  
#108 Posted : 16 November 2017 19:08:25(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Any news about the box? Is going to be a special box (wooden) or what?
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Leitner
Offline steventrain  
#109 Posted : 16 November 2017 21:47:56(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Is it true?

Is it cancelled????

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline H0  
#110 Posted : 16 November 2017 22:02:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Is it cancelled????
German text says "Sold out at the factory" (werksseitig ausverkauft).
My guess: the container has arrived and locos were shipped to the dealers.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Leitner  
#111 Posted : 16 November 2017 22:14:45(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
"Article not produced anymore" = out of stock forever.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline H0  
#112 Posted : 16 November 2017 22:20:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,752
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"Article not produced anymore" = out of stock forever.
They write the same about the booster 60172. And the booster 60172 was cancelled.

Same for Trix 22941.

Was it shipped? Or was it cancelled?
Most dealers show it as "sold out" ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Leitner  
#113 Posted : 16 November 2017 22:52:24(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
"Article not produced anymore" = out of stock forever.
They write the same about the booster 60172. And the booster 60172 was cancelled.

Same for Trix 22941.

Was it shipped? Or was it cancelled?
Most dealers show it as "sold out" ...


I contacted several dealers in Germany, they all told me the product is sold out, I still managed to get reservation from my favourite dealer and he told me I was lucky because it's impossible to find it.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline dickinsonj  
#114 Posted : 17 November 2017 00:41:12(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post

I contacted several dealers in Germany, they all told me the product is sold out, I still managed to get reservation from my favourite dealer and he told me I was lucky because it's impossible to find it.

Either Märklin's web page is wrong at the moment or I think that they might have cancelled it.

When any Märklin model that I have ever followed was just being delivered, it was shown as available to buy on their website and not marked "Article Not Produced Anymore". That usually only happens months/years after an item is sold out, not the first month that the models are being delivered.

But when I look at Marklin's English language web page right now, 39241 shows a status of "Planned Delivery: November 2017", as it always has.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Leitner  
#115 Posted : 17 November 2017 00:51:34(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
I frankly would find incredible that Marklin could cancel this after they already pre-sold and spent effort on marketing, plus the product it's still in the homepage so well...

I would like to add a screenshot of the answer of Modellbahnshop Lippe gave me last week after I asked if it was still possible to order it even if they took it out from their website.

lippe.png

Bottom line, I will never believe that Marklin would put a product they are not 100% sure of producing on the front page of their catalogue, so I would just relax and wait for the model to arrive to our tracks.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline dickinsonj  
#116 Posted : 17 November 2017 01:50:08(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line, I will never believe that Marklin would put a product they are not 100% sure of producing on the front page of their catalogue, so I would just relax and wait for the model to arrive to our tracks.

I basically agree.

Märklin showcased this loco so prominently and then so many of us ordered them, that it would be very bad for them if they backed out now.

I hope that it is just an incorrect entry on their website, and that one of these beauties is headed to my tracks as well. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Leitner  
#117 Posted : 17 November 2017 02:08:13(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
To be honest I don't think they made a mistake, it's just that the product is sold out, full stop.

And if you want a double confirmation just check the status of the BR 75.4... And several member of this forum already received it (aside from me that I'm still waiting LOL )

https://www.maerklin.de/...pdb_pi1%5Bsearchres%5D=1
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Leitner
Offline kimballthurlow  
#118 Posted : 17 November 2017 07:24:33(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,839
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
.....

Yes, I know this discussion on switches is a bit off topic, but relevant since this loco( if I remember right) is the first one that comes with an R2 limitation, might as well mention it.
From my limited experience (all of one week...Wink ) some older rolling stock (with wider wheels) may cause shorts on one or two of the pukos .
(This happens also sometimes on other C-track switches)
Just a slight bending will solve the problem, like always!
....
Cheers
Jacques


Hi Jacques,

Thankyou.
Very close observation in good light is necessary to see where the problem occurs as the vehicle enters the turnout.
I use a small neede file to shave a few tenths of a millimtere off the side of the offending puko where the wheel touches.
That does the job.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Nigel Packer  
#119 Posted : 17 November 2017 10:23:51(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 584
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
German text says "Sold out at the factory" (werksseitig ausverkauft).




I told you this!!!

See my post of a few days ago.

I think this is actually a good policy for Märklin, though they don’t follow it very often these days. Making a special model truly special (rather than over-produced and found at a discount a few months later) means that next time customers will be even more keen to buy.

I’m sure there will be other versions of this loco in due course.

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline jvuye  
#120 Posted : 17 November 2017 14:24:41(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
German text says "Sold out at the factory" (werksseitig ausverkauft).




I told you this!!!

See my post of a few days ago.

I think this is actually a good policy for Märklin, though they don’t follow it very often these days. Making a special model truly special (rather than over-produced and found at a discount a few months later) means that next time customers will be even more keen to buy.

I’m sure there will be other versions of this loco in due course.

Nigel

I'd be ready to speculate the same !
The 39241 represents the loco in it's post WW 2 / SNCF condition.
These 241As were from the pré SNCF times and Chemins de fer de l'est operations.
And there were several modifications and variations. Including one that came to Germany to be studied and modified and ran under the Br07 numbering system of the DRG.
Then there will be opportunities for iconic loco and coaches sets.
Just start saving... 😁
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Jabez  
#121 Posted : 17 November 2017 19:37:33(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

If I am correct about the quality of this model it will sell out before the first one is even delivered to a customer.


You were correct. Steventrain reports today that it is a sellout on pre-orders.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline dickinsonj  
#122 Posted : 18 November 2017 01:52:35(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post

You were correct. Steventrain reports today that it is a sellout on pre-orders.
Jabez


Everything just seemed to line up on this particular mode to make it very special, in limited supply and then to disappear quickly.

I am really glad that I have a pre-order on this beauty. BigGrin

Now if I could just get as good at predicting lottery numbers. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Mark_1602  
#123 Posted : 18 November 2017 17:46:47(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Hi all,

The same thing happened after set 31100 was announced. Please check out how many are still available today on ebay.de. BigGrin Just have a little patience ...

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline foumaro  
#124 Posted : 18 November 2017 18:35:43(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

The same thing happened after set 31100 was announced. Please check out how many are still available today on ebay.de. BigGrin Just have a little patience ...

Best regards,

Mark


All the above are part of the game,you are so right.ThumpUp
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Offline DasBert33  
#125 Posted : 18 November 2017 20:39:56(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

And there were several modifications and variations. Including one that came to Germany to be studied and modified and ran under the Br07 numbering system of the DRG.


Are there any pictures online of this variant? I would definately be interested in a DRB version. Can you elaborate a little bit?

Bert

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Offline jvuye  
#126 Posted : 18 November 2017 22:52:45(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

And there were several modifications and variations. Including one that came to Germany to be studied and modified and ran under the Br07 numbering system of the DRG.


Are there any pictures online of this variant? I would definately be interested in a DRB version. Can you elaborate a little bit?

Bert



My mistake, it was actually **BR 08 1001** of post WWII DR (not DRG)
Basically a 241 A with a "Coal dust" tender, like the 0riginal BR 05003

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_08_1001
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Est_241

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#127 Posted : 19 November 2017 00:05:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,153
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

The same thing happened after set 31100 was announced. Please check out how many are still available today on ebay.de. BigGrin Just have a little patience ...

Best regards,

Mark


Or still on dealers shelves, I posted a couple of links to shops with them still in stock just recently.

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Offline DasBert33  
#128 Posted : 19 November 2017 09:15:55(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


My mistake, it was actually **BR 08 1001** of post WWII DR (not DRG)
Basically a 241 A with a "Coal dust" tender, like the 0riginal BR 05003

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_08_1001
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Est_241

Cheers


Thanks for the info!

Some info and a picture here: http://www.3rails.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5762 The tender has a typical German shape.

Too bad though it isnt a DRG/DRB variant. I tried to look something up in my own documentation but didnt find anything. Were these french locos not used in Germany during the occupation?

Post-war DR is way less interesting for me.

Bert
Offline steventrain  
#129 Posted : 19 November 2017 09:47:55(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

The same thing happened after set 31100 was announced. Please check out how many are still available today on ebay.de. BigGrin Just have a little patience ...

Best regards,

Mark



Is the 31100 a new model? It was reproduction of 1960s model.

Some already have old models and do not need 31100.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Mark_1602  
#130 Posted : 19 November 2017 12:00:13(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post


Is the 31100 a new model? It was reproduction of 1960s model.

Some already have old models and do not need 31100.


True, but the 241 A 65 is a French model. The majority of Märklin customers are Germans, who are generally reluctant to buy French, Belgian, Italian or Dutch models because it wouldn't be prototypical to use them on a layout together with German trains. Do you remember the Russian Sapsan high-speed train based on the ICE 3? It looks much nicer than the boring DB versions, but Märklin had a hard time selling it.

I know that there are quite a lot of people who don't care about that and just want to see their trains run, which is perfectly justified. But nowadays many buyers are quite fussy about prototypes, so it's usually difficult for Märklin to sell models made for certain European countries. Nevertheless, dealers seem to be banking on this model because it's outstanding.

I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if the dealers really had customers for all the class 241 locos they have pre-ordered. Every Märklin dealer has to order at least one copy because contracts say that an official dealer has to sell every item that Märklin makes, even if none of their customers wants it, so some locos inevitably end up on Ebay after some time.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline minirail  
#131 Posted : 19 November 2017 12:39:07(UTC)
minirail


Joined: 23/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Johannesburg,
The status of 39241 has changed on the Marklin web page. I guess the delivery is starting?
Offline steventrain  
#132 Posted : 23 November 2017 14:31:31(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
The model 39241 was sold with packaging. No wooden box. This model is sold out and a new edition is not planned - Marklin.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#133 Posted : 24 November 2017 01:27:36(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post

I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if the dealers really had customers for all the class 241 locos they have pre-ordered. Every Märklin dealer has to order at least one copy because contracts say that an official dealer has to sell every item that Märklin makes, even if none of their customers wants it...
Mark

This definitely is true for some dealers. My dealer often has some nice older models that he carries in a pretty large inventory, so he has to order more items than he has preorders for. It is nice that he carries a large inventory though, because I often find some rare items there that are hard to find elsewhere. In fact he lists the 39241 as available to order right now, although as a wait list item only, I guess in case someone cancels.

I don't believe that every Märklin dealer buys and stocks every item though - all they have to do is be ready to sell them, not have them on hand. It will be interesting to see how high the demand was for an expensive but unusually detailed loco from Märklin, which might have been the reason they made it.

I still believe that it will be like the 37015. Märklin has never made that again in the lovely green Bavarian livery. Eighteen months ago I paid almost 100€ more than the original asking price for mine and today the ebay prices are another 200€ more than that! I don't regret what I paid, because it is a beautiful loco, but if a model looks like it might be scarce I prefer to jump in early and not pay any markups.

I know several people who waited on the 241.A.65 hoping that the price would drop in the next year, because it really was a pretty expensive loco for Märklin. But I do not believe that the price of this item will drop for some time. But either way I will have a very special loco in the bargain and only time will tell what transpires after that.

Luckily I collect for the trains and not for the potential financial gains! BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Mark_1602  
#134 Posted : 24 November 2017 10:27:38(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post

I don't believe that every Märklin dealer buys and stocks every item though - all they have to do is be ready to sell them, not have them on hand. It will be interesting to see how high the demand was for an expensive but unusually detailed loco from Märklin, which might have been the reason they made it.

I still believe that it will be like the 37015. Märklin has never made that again in the lovely green Bavarian livery. Eighteen months ago I paid almost 100€ more than the original asking price for mine and today the ebay prices are another 200€ more than that! I don't regret what I paid, because it is a beautiful loco, but if a model looks like it might be scarce I prefer to jump in early and not pay any markups.
BigGrin


Hi Jim,

Not every Märklin dealer sells gauge 1 or LGB because in less affluent areas (i.e northern and most of eastern Germany), there are hardly any customers for those expensive items. But official dealers who sell a given gauge or brand (e.g. Märklin H0) have to sign a contract stipulating that they are obliged to buy every item that's in the usual catalogues (trade fair, summer & autumn news). Dealers who want the MHI label also need to buy all of that stuff from Märklin and try to find customers for it. Märklin calls that a subscription. Larger dealers get priority treatment in the distribution of rare, sought-after items that are only produced in small quantities.

Is this French steam loco that rare? Definitely not! First versions are never rare as Märklin must sell over 5,000 copies to recoup the investment. Many MRRs think that the money that is invested to design a new loco is only redeemed after numerous versions have been made. That might have been true ten or twenty years ago, but Märklin often lost money back then. If they still worked like that now, they wouldn't make a profit.

The French loco we're talking about is similar to the 37015 and it was probably designed and produced in the same place to cut costs.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline dickinsonj  
#135 Posted : 24 November 2017 14:03:55(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post

Hi Jim,

Not every Märklin dealer sells gauge 1 or LGB because in less affluent areas (i.e northern and most of eastern Germany), there are hardly any customers for those expensive items. But official dealers who sell a given gauge or brand (e.g. Märklin H0) have to sign a contract stipulating that they are obliged to buy every item that's in the usual catalogues (trade fair, summer & autumn news). Dealers who want the MHI label also need to buy all of that stuff from Märklin and try to find customers for it. Märklin calls that a subscription. Larger dealers get priority treatment in the distribution of rare, sought-after items that are only produced in small quantities.

Is this French steam loco that rare? Definitely not! First versions are never rare as Märklin must sell over 5,000 copies to recoup the investment. Many MRRs think that the money that is invested to design a new loco is only redeemed after numerous versions have been made. That might have been true ten or twenty years ago, but Märklin often lost money back then. If they still worked like that now, they wouldn't make a profit.

The French loco we're talking about is similar to the 37015 and it was probably designed and produced in the same place to cut costs.

Best regards,

Mark

Hi Mark,

The subscription arrangement in interesting and I had never heard about that before - thanks for the info. I can see how that would be a great benefit to Märklin and would ensure a steady stream of factory sales.

I wonder if there are exceptions though because we have a local hobby shop that is a Märklin dealer, but they never have more than a few items in stock when I stop in. If I search for dealers on the Märklin site his shop is listed, but he is hardly a dealer from my POV. I guess he might buy all of their items and then them sell them to other dealers, because they certainly are not in his shop. I know local customers are not snapping them up because all of our other local dealers have closed due to lack of sales. These days I buy all of my Märklin items online since he has to order most items and does not discount them as much as online retailers do.

I agree about the sourcing for the 39241 probably being the same as the 37015 which explains all the detail at an acceptable cost. Just this fall Märklin introduced a train set with the S 2/6 in the DB livery, which probably never sold out due to being less attractive to many collectors. I also agree that they can't make money selling very small numbers of some items and I assume that we will see the 241 castings again but probably in another livery.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#136 Posted : 24 November 2017 17:56:32(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post

Hi Mark,

The subscription arrangement in interesting and I had never heard about that before - thanks for the info. I can see how that would be a great benefit to Märklin and would ensure a steady stream of factory sales.

I wonder if there are exceptions though because we have a local hobby shop that is a Märklin dealer, but they never have more than a few items in stock when I stop in. If I search for dealers on the Märklin site his shop is listed, but he is hardly a dealer from my POV. I guess he might buy all of their items and then them sell them to other dealers, because they certainly are not in his shop. I know local customers are not snapping them up because all of our other local dealers have closed due to lack of sales. These days I buy all of my Märklin items online since he has to order most items and does not discount them as much as online retailers do.

I agree about the sourcing for the 39241 probably being the same as the 37015 which explains all the detail at an acceptable cost. Just this fall Märklin introduced a train set with the S 2/6 in the DB livery, which probably never sold out due to being less attractive to many collectors. I also agree that they can't make money selling very small numbers of some items and I assume that we will see the 241 castings again but probably in another livery.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds!


Hi Jim,

I don't know if Märklin makes exceptions for dealers abroad, but I've read or heard about contracts with German shops. American law is fundamentally different from its German counterpart, so my guess would be that contracts with dealers outside Germany might differ.

Probably you remember the story that Märklin's S 2/6 was allegedly designed in Korea and produced in China. I don't know if that's really true, but if it is, the 241 loco might have been designed in the same place. To give you an idea of what Märklin's production runs are like, I can tell you that for MHI items it's usually 4,000 units nowadays. (I know that from a reliable source.) Usually these are not new tooling, so I suppose that a first version is only profitable if Märklin produces more than 5,000 units. Often they release two or three different versions of newly designed locos within the first two years, so I would guess that the initial production run of all the cast-iron parts in Göppingen would have to be at least 10,000. Remember the Scandinavian Dm3 a few years ago? There were two versions right away and a third one soon after, probably all from the same production run.

In the case of special locos such as the 241 or the S 2/6, Märklin cannot sell enough units and presumably has those models made in Asia. Collectors are happy because they get a loco that hasn't been produced in very large numbers and sells out quickly.

Best regards,
Mark

P.S. Let's just assume as an example that Märklin makes a profit of 100 euros per unit for a steam loco that cost 1,000,000 euros to develop. The company would have to sell at least 10,000 units in the first production run to redeem its initial investment. If they earn less than 100 euros per unit, they'd have to produce more than 10,000. It's only a theoretical number, but it gives you an idea.

In 2009, Mr Pluta said that Märklin didn't know which models were profitable because they never calculated that. That was one thing he changed immediately when he took over, so since then Märklin has only sold models it can make some money on, at least in principle. I personally don't think they can easily redeem the investment they have recently made for new turnouts, but such products are needed to satisfy the numerous customers who asked for them. The accountants must have told the managers that this investment had to be spread over a few accounting years. Maybe that's why it took so long.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline steventrain  
#137 Posted : 24 November 2017 18:05:56(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
39241 is now delivery to orders.

First on ebay - >EBAY.DE< But price is 699 EUR.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline foumaro  
#138 Posted : 24 November 2017 19:16:50(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
39241 is now delivery to orders.

First on ebay - >EBAY.DE< But price is 699 EUR.


The seller looking for idiots.Flapper
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Offline Mark_1602  
#139 Posted : 24 November 2017 20:03:38(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Hi,

My German Märklin dealer's price was 488 euros, but you only see that if you're a regular customer and log in to the online shop. He says on his website that it's sold out and that he can't order any more. It seems that all the hype during the Märklin days in September was effective.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
Offline DasBert33  
#140 Posted : 25 November 2017 10:18:44(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
Here you can see it passing a R1 curved switch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_dXPbm0OgI

Maybe the fuss over being R2 only was a little exaggerated.

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Offline jvuye  
#141 Posted : 25 November 2017 13:16:39(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
Here you can see it passing a R1 curved switch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_dXPbm0OgI

Maybe the fuss over being R2 only was a little exaggerated.



Ah!well!
My layout looks better with the R3 curved switch anyway !!BigGrin
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Dreadnought  
#142 Posted : 25 November 2017 14:50:01(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Are the curves R1 ? I thought the outside of curved switches was R2, and the inside is R1? Here it looks as if the locomotive is staying on the outside curve.
Offline RayF  
#143 Posted : 25 November 2017 16:36:30(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,694
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
Are the curves R1 ? I thought the outside of curved switches was R2, and the inside is R1? Here it looks as if the locomotive is staying on the outside curve.


Those curved switches are R1 on both branches. The outer branch has a short straight section to widen the radius.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#144 Posted : 26 November 2017 01:19:42(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,326
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Those curved switches are R1 on both branches. The outer branch has a short straight section to widen the radius.


I also thought that the outer branch had a larger radii until last year when someone posted some Märklin documentation showing R1 on both branches.

I believe that the acceptable curve radius limitations for locos that Märklin specs are conservative and that within reason this loco can be run slowly and carefully through R1 if needed.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline steventrain  
#145 Posted : 26 November 2017 11:08:23(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Maybe a Pony trucks can not run on 1st radius.Confused
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline jvuye  
#146 Posted : 26 November 2017 13:15:33(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Maybe a Pony trucks can not run on 1st radius.Confused


It would be possible if there isn't enough clearance for the rotation, often caused by the steam locos' cylinders.
But on this type of loco with 4 coupled drivers, it is probably the amount of lateral "play" of the drivers.
It's always a compromise between lateral "play" (to negotiate the curve) and possible bending of the coupling rods.
It is true for the 1:1 scale locos, even more so for models where the curves are way sharper than on real railroads.
On the video, you can see the 241 A 65 sligthtly "horse riding" with one of the drivers wobbling slightly.
I think I will not regret to have my layout now set up with a number of clear main line track paths with minimum radii > R2! Wink
If my dealer could now just deliver the 39241 now....Crying
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline DasBert33  
#147 Posted : 26 November 2017 20:05:13(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
Inner turnout on R1 switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFnw4HxLKWM

Looks OK to me, my Brawa BR06 doesn't do it any better (if not worse, it slows down noticably already in R2).

B
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Offline jvuye  
#148 Posted : 26 November 2017 22:38:53(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,838
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DasBert33 Go to Quoted Post
Inner turnout on R1 switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFnw4HxLKWM

Looks OK to me, my Brawa BR06 doesn't do it any better (if not worse, it slows down noticably already in R2).

B


You are right, it looks like it's working very well.
I could have left the sharper curves and switches.
But now it's done...and it will allow some other locos (e.g. my 3-rail converted Be 6/8 I from Metropolitan and my Be 4/7 from Fulgurex to finally run around the layout instead of back and forth!Wink )
Thanks for the video!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline foumaro  
#149 Posted : 27 November 2017 08:18:44(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,349
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
The locomotive is perfect.The white color on the wheels is simply amazing.LOL Love ThumpUp
Offline danmarklinman  
#150 Posted : 27 November 2017 09:00:56(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,129
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
The locomotive is perfect.The white color on the wheels is simply amazing.LOL Love ThumpUp


Glad your pleased with it, I will have to weight for it to be released in original SNCF livery. Can you try it on radius 36? Pleeeeese
Marklin SNCF/SNCB , Marklin wagons
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