Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 23 August 2017 01:38:41(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
With all of the CS2 problems that I have listed in another post after updating to 4.2.1, I can add a new more annoying problem that I cannot pinpoint as to where the problem originates from.

I have been operating my layout using Rocrail and all was well until I updated it in early August to its latest daily release. I started experiencing CS2 crashing whenever a particular S88 reed switch was activated. Through the Rocrail forum and analysis by them of my trace files they have determined it is not a Rocrail issue but a CS2 4.2.1 issue. All my testing shows that I can run 4 trains flawlessly up to 9-12 minutes before activation of one of the 2 identified sensors will instantaneously cause the CS2 to crash and reboot. This is a consistent problem and Rocrail has pointed me to a Stummis thread where numerous other people are commenting about this hard crash after approx. 10-15 minutes.

I do not encounter this when operating with the CS2 only or with an early July version of Rocrail running over the same sensors for hours with no problems.

Has anyone on this forum also had this crashing after 10-15 minutes with this release, in particular if you are using computer train control? If yes were you able to solve it?

Obviously for now I will have to operate with the older stable version of Rocrail until a new CS2 update gets released and then try again. However, I am puzzled how triggering of an S88 sensor can cause a CS2 crash and reboot. Ideas anyone?

I am positive it is not a hardware issue otherwise it would not work at all.

Peter
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 23 August 2017 05:53:28(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,173
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Define "crash" ?

If you think the Stummis reference is valid (correlates), how about a synopsis of their findings ?
A link would possibly be helpful to German speaking members !

As a possibly related aside , I know that RemoteCS2 posted an update after the last update came out with a comment "Fixed possible crash with latest CS2 Update 4.2".
So NO - while a new update may highlight a deficiency in the general interoperability of two bits of kit it is not obvious at all that it is the CS2 at fault.

Without doubt the CS2 has its faults but lets get some perspective first.
Does Marklin say that the CS2 will work with Rocrail?

Peter
Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 23 August 2017 06:19:14(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Define "crash" ?

If you think the Stummis reference is valid (correlates), how about a synopsis of their findings ?
A link would possibly be helpful to German speaking members !

As a possibly related aside , I know that RemoteCS2 posted an update after the last update came out with a comment "Fixed possible crash with latest CS2 Update 4.2".
So NO - while a new update may highlight a deficiency in the general interoperability of two bits of kit it is not obvious at all that it is the CS2 at fault.

Without doubt the CS2 has its faults but lets get some perspective first.
Does Marklin say that the CS2 will work with Rocrail?



I define crash as an instantaneous shutdown of the CS2, screen black and then going into a full reboot. The same type of occurrence as when you have a dead short, not just an error message that a short has occurred.

Here is the link for the Stummis topic:

Link to Stummis

I have been using Rocrail for almost 4 years with the CS2 with no problems until now. As I said in my original statement, I don't know if it is a Rocrail issue or a CS2 update issue. All I know is that I can run for approx. 10 minutes in automatic with Rocrail and then triggering the same sensors causes the crash. This does not happen in manual Rocrail, straight CS2, or older Rocrail automatic operation.


Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 23 August 2017 16:27:38(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
Further to the above Rocrail has suggested to go back to the 4.1 firmware of the CS2. Below is a German comment posted in response to another user having problems after updating to 4.2.1:

"Hast du die CS2 auf das update 4.2 mit GFP 3.68 gemacht? Wenn ja, dann gehe zurück auf 4.1 und mache das update auf 4.2 neu, aber ohne den GFP upzudaten. Märklin hat mit der Software für den GFP auf 3.68 etwas geändert. Bleibe beim GFP auf 3.27"

Generally what this says is to reinstall 4.1 to obtain GFP 3.27. Then reinstall 4.2 from a USB without GFP. This should give you a firmaware with version 4.2 and a GFP (whatever that is) at 3.27 rather than the 3.68.

So this gives me several problems since Marklin says you cannot go back after updating to 4.2.1. Where would I find 4.1 since I have always updated from the network rather than a USB? For software knowledgeable people does the recommendation even make sense?

Peter
Offline Minok  
#5 Posted : 23 August 2017 22:43:25(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,808
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
So it seem s Märklin changed something in the GFP version 3.68 that is incompatible to the way Rocrail has been communicating with the CS2.
Either Rocrail needs to change to the new requirements in the CS2's GFP firmware (are they accessing some data that is non-standardized and the data structure changed/moved?), or maybe Märklin violated one of its documented APIs on how to interface with the GFP.

Its got all the hallmarks of a data structure or memory configuration inside the GFP software has moved or changed, and Rocrail is using addresses/data structure formats/offsets that no longer align with the way the data is stored in the GFP version 3.68. That causes a general protection fault/core dump within the hardware running the GFP code.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Minok
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 24 August 2017 14:21:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,084
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
With all of the CS2 problems that I have listed in another post after updating to 4.2.1, I can add a new more annoying problem that I cannot pinpoint as to where the problem originates from.

I have been operating my layout using Rocrail and all was well until I updated it in early August to its latest daily release. I started experiencing CS2 crashing whenever a particular S88 reed switch was activated. Through the Rocrail forum and analysis by them of my trace files they have determined it is not a Rocrail issue but a CS2 4.2.1 issue. All my testing shows that I can run 4 trains flawlessly up to 9-12 minutes before activation of one of the 2 identified sensors will instantaneously cause the CS2 to crash and reboot. This is a consistent problem and Rocrail has pointed me to a Stummis thread where numerous other people are commenting about this hard crash after approx. 10-15 minutes.

I do not encounter this when operating with the CS2 only or with an early July version of Rocrail running over the same sensors for hours with no problems.

Has anyone on this forum also had this crashing after 10-15 minutes with this release, in particular if you are using computer train control? If yes were you able to solve it?

Obviously for now I will have to operate with the older stable version of Rocrail until a new CS2 update gets released and then try again. However, I am puzzled how triggering of an S88 sensor can cause a CS2 crash and reboot. Ideas anyone?

I am positive it is not a hardware issue otherwise it would not work at all.

Peter


So what are the addresses of the sensors that give you this problem?

Have you tried not using those sensors in Rocrail?

Could you try putting those sensors at a different address?
Offline PMPeter  
#7 Posted : 24 August 2017 18:04:04(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

So what are the addresses of the sensors that give you this problem?

Have you tried not using those sensors in Rocrail?

Could you try putting those sensors at a different address?


The sensors are consistently 54 or 55 (Module 4 #6 or module 4 #7). I have tried to disconnect these 2 sensors and program Rocrail so that I have a single sensor in each of the 2 affected blocks and all that does is transfer the problem to those 2 sensors (51 and 52). If I put those blocks out of operation the problem transfers to sensor 56.

I do not believe it is a sensor problem since they show correctly on the CS2 and on July or earlier versions of Rocrail. For the same reason I also do not believe it is an LDT S88 module problem. I do not have a spare and cannot test that. I also do not want to swap 2 modules to see if the problem transfers to the sensors in the new location. The thought of disconnecting 36 wires and reconnecting them is surely going to introduce new problems, however, I may have to go that route.

Peter
Offline TEEWolf  
#8 Posted : 25 August 2017 03:00:10(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,384
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

I define crash as an instantaneous shutdown of the CS2, screen black and then going into a full reboot. The same type of occurrence as when you have a dead short, not just an error message that a short has occurred.

Here is the link for the Stummis topic:

Link to Stummis

I have been using Rocrail for almost 4 years with the CS2 with no problems until now. As I said in my original statement, I don't know if it is a Rocrail issue or a CS2 update issue. All I know is that I can run for approx. 10 minutes in automatic with Rocrail and then triggering the same sensors causes the crash. This does not happen in manual Rocrail, straight CS2, or older Rocrail automatic operation.


Hi Peter,

I read this Stummi thread. They reported the same problem you described. And a few members had success a few not. Here a short overview about somementioned points.

- a return from the updated CS 2 4.2 to 4.1 will not be possible. Also Maerklin shall write this on its homepage.

https://www.maerklin.de/...e/downloads/cs2-updates/

see note rigth before point #3 computer interface of the CS 2

- but it seems to be failure results from the CS 2 software update. One member wrote he has 2 CS 2. One was updated and the same failures occure as you have written about. With the not updated version of its CS 2 he did not have the problems. So to me it looks like it must be the CS 2 update.

- a few members are in direct e-mail contact with maerklin, but they could not help really at the moment. And they will report continously about what Maerklin is writing them. For Maerklin it obvious was a new problem too.

- there will be another very tiny CS 2 update since the 4.2. one. But the update number has not changed for this tiny update. Then the full function should have been back. Perhaps you try it with the latest update again.

- one reported that the update has internally changed the number of its power supply. after he corrected it, the CS 2 problems should have been solved. He had to chnage from the power supply 60101 (for 5 A) to the 60061 (for 3 A).

- another one seperated his different currents (traction current from switched current) by CS 2 and a booster and the CS 2 stopped resetting. Also others were successful with this current separation. Perhaps it is a power problem with the CS 2. If the limit is achieved after 15 minutes the CS 2 switches off.

Hope to give you some ideas which may help you. Sorry but I do not have a CS 2 only a CS 3.

regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 02 March 2019 15:42:17(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
I am bringing this older thread back to life because I am having a similar problem with my 60215 CS2 right now and I hope that someone has some ideas about what might be going on. It is similar to the problems people reported in this thread last year, although it does not involve S88 modules or software such as Rocrail. To be clear what I mean by crash is a random black screen and cutting off of all power to my track, followed by what eventually looks like a normal startup of the CS2. Although it seems to restart normally it comes back up in a strange state and only works properly if I reboot it once again.

I am currently running an extremely simple layout:

- Three main lines with only 6 powered turnouts, all of it newer C track
- A solid power bus with track connections every 1-2 meters on each line
- Powered supplied by the booster in the CS2 (#60215) to one line and one external booster
(#60175) supplying the other two lines.
- CS2 software version: 4.2.8(4) GFP version: 3.81
- All power is from switched mode power packs (#60065)
- The transformer settings for the boosters are set to 60061, which is as close to the 50 VA output as I can get with the choices offered
- I am only running three trains at a time, with the CS2's boosters average draw being ~0.333 amps and the other drawing ~0.805 amps
- The trains I am currently running are nearly new with nothing but LED lighting to draw current beyond what the motors require

I had this problem last year when running software version 4.2.1(0) as other CS2 users experienced. For a while after the latest update the CS2 was fine but now it crashes after about 10-15 minutes sometimes and at other times it will run for hours. My power draw is minimal and it is hard to see how my layout could be causing this to happen. As long as the CS2 remains stable everything runs perfectly with no dead spots or sound dropouts anywhere on my track.

So now I wonder if this means the CS2's hardware is failing, since I have not seen others reporting this problem since we moved past version 4.2.1. I'm not sure how to tell which is the case though or how to get my trains running reliably again.

Any ideas of suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline PMPeter  
#10 Posted : 02 March 2019 15:59:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
I've had one unexplained crash since the latest update. It also happened after about 10-15 minutes and I worried about "here we go again". Unfortunately due to work requirements I haven't run the trains very much, but when I do I will definitely keep an eye out for it.

Peter
Offline dickinsonj  
#11 Posted : 02 March 2019 16:10:25(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I've had one unexplained crash since the latest update. It also happened after about 10-15 minutes and I worried about "here we go again". Unfortunately due to work requirements I haven't run the trains very much, but when I do I will definitely keep an eye out for it.

Peter


Thanks Peter - that was exactly what I thought too - Oh no, here we go again.

Right now I only have a couple of days a week to run my trains and Tuesday and Thursday I ran them for hours without any problems. But then last night I tried to squeeze in a short run and it crashed. Hopefully there is some answer short of replacing the 60215, especially since I don't know that it is really the source of the problem.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 03 March 2019 12:32:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 445
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim

The black screen and reboot point to a collapsing power source (60065 in your case).
I have been using the new CS2 update 4.2.8 for quite some time without experiencing your problems.
Isn't this related to the 60065? Just as a coincidence Marklin just replaced it with a special for US market
There is another post on this and 60065 power is 50W unlike the 60061 (60W) which may explain that sometimes the 60065) switches off before the CS2 does.
I am using the 60101 alas not authorized for the US and 240 V only
I validated the new update on both my CS2s
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline dickinsonj  
#13 Posted : 03 March 2019 13:44:30(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim

The black screen and reboot point to a collapsing power source (60065 in your case).
I have been using the new CS2 update 4.2.8 for quite some time without experiencing your problems.
I validated the new update on both my CS2s
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean,

Thanks for the info. It is helpful to have an idea about what might be causing this and I have wondered if it might be the power supply. Your experience suggests that the current CS2 software is probably not to blame. I am running a reduced amount of track right now and I have a couple of spare power supplies available to use for testing.

All of my boosters and power supplies are less than three to four years old and I would not have expected to see one fail so soon. I also wonder if there will always be a problem when using a 50 VA power supply and having to tell the software that it is 60 VA. That sounds like a setup that is bound to fail from time to time, just as I am seeing.

If I determine a clear cause for my problem I will post my findings.

Thanks Again.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 03 March 2019 21:57:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 445
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
With all of the CS2 problems that I have listed in another post after updating to 4.2.1, I can add a new more annoying problem that I cannot pinpoint as to where the problem originates from.

I have been operating my layout using Rocrail and all was well until I updated it in early August to its latest daily release. I started experiencing CS2 crashing whenever a particular S88 reed switch was activated. Through the Rocrail forum and analysis by them of my trace files they have determined it is not a Rocrail issue but a CS2 4.2.1 issue. All my testing shows that I can run 4 trains flawlessly up to 9-12 minutes before activation of one of the 2 identified sensors will instantaneously cause the CS2 to crash and reboot. This is a consistent problem and Rocrail has pointed me to a Stummis thread where numerous other people are commenting about this hard crash after approx. 10-15 minutes.

I do not encounter this when operating with the CS2 only or with an early July version of Rocrail running over the same sensors for hours with no problems.

Has anyone on this forum also had this crashing after 10-15 minutes with this release, in particular if you are using computer train control? If yes were you able to solve it?

Obviously for now I will have to operate with the older stable version of Rocrail until a new CS2 update gets released and then try again. However, I am puzzled how triggering of an S88 sensor can cause a CS2 crash and reboot. Ideas anyone?

I am positive it is not a hardware issue otherwise it would not work at all.

Peter


Hi Peter

In the CS2 new update 4.2.8 there is a new field in Setup/S88 that needs filling (how many old style S88 do you have). The result if not filled could explain your issues (I remember issues of stack overflow in the old daysBigGrin .
Here is the screen in question (Sorry, german language) and the new field in red highlight

UserPostedImage
On one of my CS2 it could have caused improper reading of sensors (just what I suspect).

Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline PMPeter  
#15 Posted : 04 March 2019 01:23:09(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thanks Jean.

The problem from 2 years ago mainly went away after I changed the LDT S88 decoders to the Opto style. I just had the one occurrence recently that I could not explain and perhaps your information about the new update screen is what caused that.

What are you supposed to fill in for the Laenge S88 Bus? Is that the actual length of the S88 bus, the number of S88 modules, or the total number of possible S88 connections?

Cheers
Peter
Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 04 March 2019 06:21:44(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 445
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter

IMO it is the number of S88 (6088) that you have in numerals (1,2,..)
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline dickinsonj  
#17 Posted : 14 March 2019 02:47:21(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim

The black screen and reboot point to a collapsing power source (60065 in your case)...
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean,

Well I am 10 days into testing out your theory about the collapsing power supply and I believe that you were correct!

I switched my CS2 to another 60065 and I have not seen another crash, even when using it for hours at a time, which is a major improvement. I am still surprised that a power supply which can be no more than 40 months old with less than 18 months of actual use has failed, but that certainly seems to be the case.

But it is so nice to run my trains with no system crashes and your excellent advice seems to have pointed me in the right direction. ThumpUp

Thanks for your input!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline Minok  
#18 Posted : 14 March 2019 05:01:35(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,808
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
These are the most head scratching of issues indeed. The power brick for an Amazon echo gave up the ghost in my case. These things that convert line level AC to a regulated DC voltage rely, in part, on the performance of capacities and it’s often those parts that wear out or fail (prematurely or with age). As the power supplies are not serviceable , one cannot simple replace a few dollars with if capacitors.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline dickinsonj  
#19 Posted : 14 March 2019 12:51:30(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
The power brick for an Amazon echo gave up the ghost in my case.


Interesting. I guess that I have been lucky because I have rarely seen one fail in my many years of using them. One for an echo could not be all that old so obviously it does happen and googling power supply failures points out that spontaneous reboots are one of the main symptoms of these failures. Another case of live and learn.

Although the Märklin ones are not cheap by any means it will cost a lot less to replace it than the CS2, so I will count myself lucky.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#20 Posted : 15 March 2019 14:14:47(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
OK - I was wrong to declare victory so soon. ThumbDown

My CS2 spontaneously rebooted last night after about 30 minutes of use. The thread topic for me is not really my "CS2 crashing after 10 minutes", but just crashing on random days at random times for no obvious reason.

I was running two trains on the two lines supplied by the booster, which typically has it pulling about 0.7 amps. The line supplied by the booster in the CS2 had a single train with lights and sounds but it was stationary. This morning I see that with just that track circuit active it pulls 0.05 amps and with the led lighting and sounds activated in my new TGV it pulls a whooping 0.10 amps. So in no real sense is this being caused by my layout drawing too much power.

It seems unlikely that two seperate power supplies are causing this to happen, although I still have one victim that I have not yet tried. In another thread on CS2 crashes Jean suggested that the problem could be with the booster in the CS2 which seems more likely now that I have seen this with two seperate power bricks.

I guess I will try powering the two track circuits with boosters and nothing demanded of the third power supply but driving the CS2. If that configuration is still not stable then I am out of ideas as to how to put all of this expensive hardware to successful use. I assume that there are system logs that might capture what is going on when the CS2 reboots but I don't know how to find them or that I would be able to interrupt them if I did. After my CS2 restarts it shows all of the locos stopped but the ones running when it crashed continue to run until I call them up and reverse direction. So it is not sending track commands consistent with the state of the gui when it comes back, even after two restarts.

Another oddity is that the CS2 it still occasionally finds a new imaginary loco (Lok-1) which it adds to my roster and then fails to communicate with it, causing a popup warning. I have to believe that there are flaws in the latest software update, although I have no way of proving that for sure.

And ideas about how to proceed with trouble shooting would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline JohnjeanB  
#21 Posted : 16 March 2019 10:45:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 445
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim

This is so disappointing you still have the problem.
Basically when the CS2 reboots you have 2 root causes:
- power detection failure: power feed, fauty connector, faulty power fail detection circuits inside the CS2
- program issues: improper s/w download, ROM memory needing reflash
Unfortunately, now Märklin does not repairs them anymore but provides facilities to buy a replacement (when shipping costs are not destroying the value for it)
Here are pictures of one of my CS2s giving me troubles with the stop taste (it still works and is repaired)
The mother board
UserPostedImage
the display and touch screen
UserPostedImage
the empty upper shell with control knobs and card readers
UserPostedImage
As you can see there is not much apart the mother board.
I don't know how to cheer you up. Sorry

Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline dickinsonj  
#22 Posted : 16 March 2019 13:45:15(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim
...

As you can see there is not much apart the motherboard.
I don't know how to cheer you up. Sorry

Cheers
Jean


Thanks for the thoughts Jean. It certainly sounds like my 39 month old CS2 is toast, regardless of the specific cause. Computers with everything on one board are increasingly common and unfortunately they do not offer good repair options in most cases.

No real cheer here though, since it looks like I now need a new control system. I guess it does give me another chance to re-evaluate an ECoS system rather than getting a CS3. For now though it is time to wrap up a few upgrade projects and pack this stuff away - for how long remains to be seen. When my 6021 system started dying my trains went into storage for 12 years and maybe it is time for that to happen again.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline David Dewar  
#23 Posted : 16 March 2019 23:38:10(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,548
Location: Scotland
Have you tried running a train on a simple oval of track with no boosters or S88s etc and just use the CS2 with nothing connected to it other than the power supply of course. Also did this only happen after the last update.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline dickinsonj  
#24 Posted : 17 March 2019 01:50:45(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Have you tried running a train on a simple oval of track with no boosters or S88s etc and just use the CS2 with nothing connected to it other than the power supply of course.

My layout is currently in a reduced state, with a configuration almost as simple as you suggest. The CS2 is powering only a single line of track with nothing else digital other than one loco on that track. The CS2 is connected to a booster though, which is powering two more lines with track powered turnouts and decoders. I could disconnect the one booster I am using and try just running one train on that circuit, which would eliminate the booster or CAN bus as the cause.

I have wondered if something happening on a booster circuit could cause the CS2 to crash or if it would need to be something on a track segment connected directly to the CS2. When my VT 95.9 developed a dead short in its board it would cause the CS2 to reboot if it was anywhere on the layout, either the section powered by the CS2 or one of the three boosters I normally use.

Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Also did this only happen after the last update.

Well I was running software version 4.2.1, which had reboot issues as noted earlier in this thread. I tried an update in January and although it appeared to complete normally it was still on that old version and only downloaded a few files. But when the reboots continued I performed another update. This one was successful and that put me at the current software revision of 4.2.8(4) but the crashes continue. So I can't really say that this started with this update.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#25 Posted : 17 March 2019 18:10:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,084
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I'm not sure you don't have problems with mains noise getting through the power supply and upsetting your cs2.

Do you have any sort of isolating transformer, e.g. for using power tools outside? If so I would try putting that in the line from the mains to your power supplies.

Do you have any neighbours doing electric welding in their garage? That will put huge spikes down the mains.

Any commercial premises nearby with large plant such as aircon units, or anything else that cycles? They can also put large spikes down the mains.

Anything like that will have the potential to upset your cs2 if they get through.

Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 17 March 2019 19:54:34(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure you don't have problems with mains noise getting through the power supply and upsetting your cs2.


I have considered the same thing Alan. All of my computing platforms are laptops/tablets/phones where the batteries act as filters and capacitors, so my CS2 is alone in facing down whatever comes out of my mains.

I live in farm country so there is always the possibility of someone running a large electric motor or welder somewhere in the area. Also the electrical infrastructure here in the US is fairly primitive compared to that in Europe, which is the primary market for this equipment.

I do have whole house surge suppression at the transformer supplying my mains but that just cuts off the giant spikes that can take down major appliances. My CS2 is powered through a surge suppressing power strip which filters out more spikes but not dips in the supply and possibly lets other noise through as well. I may get a UPS for my layout, which would give me a cushion until my backup generator comes online and most of them will do a decent job of power conditioning as well.

That really is my main question in all of this. Is it something external to the CS2 causing this? I would really regret buying a new ECoS or CS3 and then still find myself having exactly the same problem.

Stay tuned. If that fixes this problem I will be sure to post what I find and hopefully I can help out others in our MRR community who might be having similar issues.

Thanks for the input. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#27 Posted : 17 March 2019 21:03:03(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 445
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jom

One thing you could try is to procure a ferrite filter to clip on the power feed of your CS2 It is in electronic stores to suppress surges clips on the cable and is inexpensive.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 17 March 2019 21:25:54(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,084
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure you don't have problems with mains noise getting through the power supply and upsetting your cs2.


I have considered the same thing Alan. All of my computing platforms are laptops/tablets/phones where the batteries act as filters and capacitors, so my CS2 is alone in facing down whatever comes out of my mains.

I live in farm country so there is always the possibility of someone running a large electric motor or welder somewhere in the area. Also the electrical infrastructure here in the US is fairly primitive compared to that in Europe, which is the primary market for this equipment.

I do have whole house surge suppression at the transformer supplying my mains but that just cuts off the giant spikes that can take down major appliances. My CS2 is powered through a surge suppressing power strip which filters out more spikes but not dips in the supply and possibly lets other noise through as well. I may get a UPS for my layout, which would give me a cushion until my backup generator comes online and most of them will do a decent job of power conditioning as well.

That really is my main question in all of this. Is it something external to the CS2 causing this? I would really regret buying a new ECoS or CS3 and then still find myself having exactly the same problem.

Stay tuned. If that fixes this problem I will be sure to post what I find and hopefully I can help out others in our MRR community who might be having similar issues.

Thanks for the input. ThumpUp


Ah, OK then. I would seriously suspect that your problem is line voltage dips, and I consider that a UPS would definitely be worth while. Be interested to hear how you get on once you have it installed.

Offline dickinsonj  
#29 Posted : 17 March 2019 21:37:38(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Ah, OK then. I would seriously suspect that your problem is line voltage dips, and I consider that a UPS would definitely be worth while. Be interested to hear how you get on once you have it installed.



Yes - that is making more sense to me right now as well. Actually we were having windy weather and some lightning when my CS2 shutdown last week and I thought about that as a cause. Our power lines run through a lot of forests and small dropouts can occur whenever the wind blows very hard.

I have been doing some shopping and CyberPower makes UPS units that not only do power conditioning but output real sinewave power forms and not the approximation that comes out of most UPS units.

Stay tuned for updates as they occur. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#30 Posted : 17 March 2019 21:45:43(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 955
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jom

One thing you could try is to procure a ferrite filter to clip on the power feed of your CS2 It is in electronic stores to suppress surges clips on the cable and is inexpensive.
Cheers
Jean


That is interesting Jean. I am upgrading the decoder in the F7 locos with my California Zephyr and it has a ferrite filter in the line from the slider to the decoder, which I have not seen in any other Märklin models.

I think that a UPS is going to be my best, if not cheapest solution, but thanks for the input. I do plan to upgrade my control computer one of these days but I suspect this problem is more systemic and I need to get it sorted out before adding new equipment into the mix.

Once again nice people on this forum are helping me to get through my latest MRR woes. What a great resource this forum is! Cool

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.819 seconds.