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Offline MarklTedII  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2017 15:38:16(UTC)
MarklTedII

United States   
Joined: 07/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: East Coast
Hi ALL!
I just got this Marklin Z 8885 , BR 03 !
It looks like it's in great shape, I even have the box and packing !
I tried applying power direct to the wheels, it makes a little noise that's it !
Seems bound up !
I just found the manual online @ Marklin it has oiling instructions etc.
All this stuff is great for a running engine, but what do I do to get this baby moving ?
HELP !
Ted
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Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 23 July 2017 18:09:44(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,080
Sounds like stale oil or dirt in gears, which would mean cleaning & oiling and maybe even dismantling the loco to check the gears...

Or maybe possibly a bad motor...

I hope our Z guys can help you with this, only doing H0 myself....
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline franciscohg  
#3 Posted : 23 July 2017 19:34:23(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,235
Location: Patagonia
Hi, as stated, disassemble the loco and make a complete cleaning and oiling, also check the brushes. If the loco just buzz dont apply voltage too long, you may damage the rotor
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
Offline MarklTedII  
#4 Posted : 23 July 2017 22:04:05(UTC)
MarklTedII

United States   
Joined: 07/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: East Coast
So I got the top off.
Seems very clean inside !
I put a drop of oil in that tiny hole just before the motor.
I'm using ZEP with Teflon to try and loosen up the wheels , I'm using a dental tool to apply in the tiny space that is there !
I noticed that the tiny copper " feather " pickups were in 2 different places on the Loco !
I did take a picture put I can only get the one that I think is wrong ! The other feather on the other side is on the inside of the wheel closer to the body. For all I know one being outside the other inside might be correct ! It doesn't show anything in the manual !

If I leave the top off and apply power to the trucks is there a preferred place I can help with the motor to turn those wheels ?

THANKS, Ted
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Offline Carim  
#5 Posted : 24 July 2017 00:27:19(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 479
Location: London
Hi,

I just looked at the spare parts diagram for 8885 on the Marklin web shop and the pickups do have to be on the inside of the wheel next to the body.

Also on one of your previous photos, there seems to be some green stuff (near the rear pony wheels and between the main drivers and the mechanism body) - congealed oil? I suspect that there is more of that and you need to clean it all off the mechanism to free things up.

Carim

8885_explo.pdf (75kb) downloaded 45 time(s).
Offline mal  
#6 Posted : 24 July 2017 14:32:20(UTC)
mal

United Kingdom   
Joined: 24/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: England, Salcombe
Hi, I have a similar problem. On an analogue system an 8803 loco on which the motor runs perfectly well in both directions but when the wheels and the little fiddly gear wheels between the axles are replaced the loco will only run backwards. Select forwards and the motor runs but the wheels refuse to turn. Have thoroughly cleaned the whole running gear and even swapped the assembly of wheels around but to no avail. Any ideas anybody??
Offline zscalehobo  
#7 Posted : 25 July 2017 22:33:52(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
For the 8885 in the original post, this is HOS (hardened oil syndrome). The problem is likely in the wheelsets/gears. That means you need to remove the lower pan. BUT when you remove the lower pan and then the gears/wheels, you will have to re-time/re-quarter them to put it all back together. This timing of a z scale Marklin steamer is not the easiest task, but can be done.

Once the gears are free of the chassis, you can test the motor with "no load" by applying the power to the capacitor leads coming from the motor itself. If it runs, great. If not, then you may have to change the brushes.

Clean the gears in ultrasonic bath with light light amount of simple green. Rinse with water, then blow dry. Apply light light amounts of lube (Marklin 7149, Atlas Conductalube, or Labelle 108). Re-install into lower chassis, set gear timing appropriately.

If this doesn't bring her back to life, check the brushes.

The tiny hole before the motor is not a lube point that will solve HOS. The HOS is in the wheelsets, not allowing the motor to spin.

Also, I didn't notice you were calling the leaf spring or wheel wiper a "feather." I see that the one wiper is outside from the wheels. That is definitely bad news. Again, I would check motor function first by applying power to the top of the motor at the capacitor contacts and if the wheels move freely, we don't have to deal with "HOS." If stuck there, then definitely you have an HOS condition.

@mal for the 8803, backwards running is incorrect timing or stuck drive rods. Re-quarter/time the gears and then try again.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline mal  
#8 Posted : 28 July 2017 18:51:57(UTC)
mal

United Kingdom   
Joined: 24/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: England, Salcombe
Thanks zscalehobo, err just how do I re-quarter/time the gears please? Is there a handy link to some instruction manual perhaps? As you may have guessed I am fairly new to this!!
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 28 July 2017 19:00:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,072
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: mal Go to Quoted Post
On an analogue system an 8803 loco on which the motor runs perfectly well in both directions but when the wheels and the little fiddly gear wheels between the axles are replaced the loco will only run backwards. Select forwards and the motor runs but the wheels refuse to turn.
When the motor runs but wheels do not turn, then it is not a problem with the quartering.
Could be a worn worm drive, see this thread:
https://www.marklin-user...uns-backwards#post532436

If there us a problem with the quartering, then the wheels will not turn and the motor also stops turning.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline zscalehobo  
#10 Posted : 29 July 2017 06:18:10(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: mal Go to Quoted Post
Thanks zscalehobo, err just how do I re-quarter/time the gears please? Is there a handy link to some instruction manual perhaps? As you may have guessed I am fairly new to this!!


Nope, no procedure. Just trial and error. But if I were to offer advice, I'd say start from the back set of gears and then move forward, making sure side rods are loose as you insert each gear.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Steveye  
#11 Posted : 12 January 2019 14:52:16(UTC)
Steveye

Romania   
Joined: 12/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Iasi, Iasi
Hi, I've just bought a 8885 loco from a specialised store from eBay and I've connected it with a 67011 trafo. Well the problem is that when I'm trying to start it at low power the locoit makes no move the engine seems to react a little bit. I gived her maximum power and started to makes some jerky moves then stopped. The lights worked. Could be some analogic/digital incompatibility between loco and trafo? Could be trafo digital? Need some help pls...
Offline Zme  
#12 Posted : 12 January 2019 18:20:41(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 287
Location: West Texas
Hello Mark1ted2, there is good news regarding your situation. From the photos, it looks like your Loco's drive wheels are quartered right now. The half moons on the big drive wheels are all orientated in the same position. Look at the photo on your manufactures box, if you have one the newer one, and you will see the wheels in the correct quartered position also. When I see this, I usually think that at the very least, it is possible no one has been inside this loco tinkering. That is a good thing.

Fixing your situation will not be easy, but is not impossible either. Remember this adage "No guts, No glory". Most do not initiate themselves on working with the z scale trains, by working on the more complex locos first. The modern engines do not have issues with the wheel like quartering. It will be very satisfying when you get this one working again.

Work slowly and carefully and you will have a better outcome. You will usually only need a screw driver to get started. That feather is not a real problem as long as it it not bent or damaged. This piece needs to be on the backside of the large wheels, but sometimes they get pulled out as you have it now. The challenge with working on your wheels set is after cleaning, you will need to "quarter" the wheels while at the same time. getting your feathers and drive rods into the correct position. This is not an easy task for a first timer but with a bit of trial and error and perhaps a few repeats, it will finally go back together. I usually do not remove the drive rod, but I think some have, and perhaps this makes it easier to reassemble. I just never have done it this way.

If there are some discoloration on parts, it may be best to breakdown the entire unit to clean. If a ultasonic cleaner is not available, careful use of an alcohol cleaner with clean brushes works too. I usually purchase a variety of the dental brushes for between the teeth brushing. These work and the narrow and wider size usually help getting into tiny spaces. If soaking in the alcohol, don't let the parts sit in the bath for a prolonged period. Remember not to use rubbing alcohol as it has another ingredient which may leave a residue behind. Don't remove the motor unless it will not work.

Usually the cleaner a part is the better, but not to the point where the cleaning causes wear, or misshaping. Use a light touch.

I urge you to be careful because if a part is lost on the floor, you likely will not have a replacement part on hand. Finding a new part online is not easy either, and this is why some decide to have this work done by a professional because they will have the experience and spare parts to respond to these problems.

Best wishes on your project. BigGrin BigGrin Remember to have fun.

8885.pdf (75kb) downloaded 21 time(s). This may be helpful with your work.

Offline Poor Skeleton  
#13 Posted : 12 January 2019 22:45:28(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: England, Cambridge
You may find this helpful http://www.zscale.org/articles/revival.html

Good luck!


Chris
Offline mal  
#14 Posted : 14 January 2019 14:44:32(UTC)
mal

United Kingdom   
Joined: 24/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: England, Salcombe
Hi Steveye,
Well the transformer 67011 is a bog standard 0-10 volts by turning the dial so there should be no problem there. You could test it with a multimeter just to make sure (or a different loco).

Ok so the motor ran jerkily for a bit and then stopped. Assuming that you have not burnt the motor out with a bit of work you should get it going again. Check the brushes, No.7b on the pdf d_landen supplied (ebay should provide if you need new ones).

Now the horror story. The loco motor/gears could be gummed up with a combination of old oil/fluff/dust and general crud. This would need some cleaning out and would not be removed with a spot of oil dabbed into the workings. I have un-gummed several Z gauge locos and agree with d_landen, this is a time consuming and fiddly job. Just make sure you have a secure workspace ie. no children, wife with hoover or playful dog allowed anywhere near it. (You try finding a motor brush in a dogs coat). A good light source possibly with a magnifying glass is a great help. I found that taking photos on a smartphone as you take each bit off is also a good idea. Personally I try not to use metal tools to clean the gears etc, a cocktail stick can remove most if not all the goo, and then a cotton bud slightly damp with alcohol to get the last bits off.

If you get stuck PM me.

As Poor Skelton said... Good Luck!
Offline Steveye  
#15 Posted : 15 January 2019 13:02:57(UTC)
Steveye

Romania   
Joined: 12/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Iasi, Iasi
Originally Posted by: mal Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steveye,
Well the transformer 67011 is a bog standard 0-10 volts by turning the dial so there should be no problem there. You could test it with a multimeter just to make sure (or a different loco).

Ok so the motor ran jerkily for a bit and then stopped. Assuming that you have not burnt the motor out with a bit of work you should get it going again. Check the brushes, No.7b on the pdf d_landen supplied (ebay should provide if you need new ones).

Now the horror story. The loco motor/gears could be gummed up with a combination of old oil/fluff/dust and general crud. This would need some cleaning out and would not be removed with a spot of oil dabbed into the workings. I have un-gummed several Z gauge locos and agree with d_landen, this is a time consuming and fiddly job. Just make sure you have a secure workspace ie. no children, wife with hoover or playful dog allowed anywhere near it. (You try finding a motor brush in a dogs coat). A good light source possibly with a magnifying glass is a great help. I found that taking photos on a smartphone as you take each bit off is also a good idea. Personally I try not to use metal tools to clean the gears etc, a cocktail stick can remove most if not all the goo, and then a cotton bud slightly damp with alcohol to get the last bits off.

If you get stuck PM me.

As Poor Skelton said... Good Luck!


Thanks @mal, I've cleaned all the gears including the motor, it was filled with dark oil not hardened. The wheel's gears were ok but they had some points of hardened oil but didn't seems to affect too much. The spiral gear seems to have a broken teeth but is at the very and of the spiral so I don't think is a problem. For the moment I don't have the oil to grease the gears so I will wait for that. Meanwhile I will like to know what tipe of capacitor is the one on top of the motor the yellow one, mine is little cracked.

Offline mal  
#16 Posted : 16 January 2019 00:01:25(UTC)
mal

United Kingdom   
Joined: 24/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: England, Salcombe
Hi Steveye,
Now I'm no electronics expert, as I understand it the capacitor is there for two possible reasons:
1. To stop or limit interference to television or radio signals. That might have been relevant in the 1970s (presumably around the time that the 8885 came out) so with digital/internet radio and satellite/internet TV etc it's probably not relevant now.
2. As a temporary boost to the DC power if the loco goes over a small dead patch on the tracks. The small physical size of the capacitor in any Z gauge loco would seem to rule that out. I know the physical size doesn't equate to the amount of 'oomph' it might give, it all depends on the uF rating. (Told you I wasn't an electronics wizard.)
So based on the above I wouldn't worry too much about the capacitor.

If anyone knows different please correct me, after all the wife has been doing that for the past 30 odd years so I should be used to it.

As an after thought, you could try emailing the technical help at Marklin. However I tried that for help with an old engine and after several emails back and forth the final answer I got was along the lines of 'we don't make that anymore - can't help you'.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#17 Posted : 16 January 2019 21:23:15(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: England, Cambridge
As Mal says, the capacitor is there to suppress radio interference, but they never really did much good and they're even less crucial with modern digital radio and TV broadcasts. You can leave it as it is with no worries.

In principle, a capacitor can also smooth over any interruptions in the supply (they're used in this capacity (haha!) to stop coach lighting from flickering) but you'd need an impractically large value to keep a motor turning for any useful amount of time.

Hope this is of reassurance


Chris
Offline Steveye  
#18 Posted : 22 January 2019 11:42:57(UTC)
Steveye

Romania   
Joined: 12/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Iasi, Iasi
Hi guys, thanks all for your advices and support! I managed to make it work. I will share with you the problems I've encounter with my loco. First, to do a small recap, the loco refused to move. I had to increase the power and to push it to move few centimeters, basically that was the only way it was moving, from time to time i had the luck to see it working for 3 seconds at most. It had a metalic sound also. To eliminate any doubts I had to know if the transformer 67011 was compatible with this old model loco, that is why I asked. I've read that analog and digital doesn't make a very good pair. After eliminating this problem I've started to disassemble the loco:

First i've observed that the transparent support of the engine had a lot of oil, not hardened but quite a lot. I cleaned the compartiment with alcohol only and i used the nail thinner only on the spiral gear axel.

IMG_20190114_153518.jpg

The spiral gear had an exfoliation on the last spiral probability that was the cause of the metallic noise. I thought it was broken but no, I manage to remove it with the help of a microscope and a thin cutter.

IMG_20190114_233311.jpg

IMG_20190115_210113.jpg

I disassembled the wheels gears(sorry didn't take pictures with them disassembled) and clean them with nail thinner and a soft nr 0 pencil. It's harder with the traction wheels because you have to keep them in a fixed position and be careful with the thinner not to touch the plastic. They look clean here but they had pockets with hardened oil at the base of the gears. Could not affect the gears but i've cleaned them to be sure.

IMG_20190115_123001.jpg

The final operation was to oil the gears. I used thin metal oil for airsoft guns. I've dropped a little bit too much oil in the engine compartment and at the first run, the engine gear was spinning without contact, so its seems that was the major problem in the first place: over lubrifiation in the engine compartiment. After some pushing help, the oil excess was eliminated and the loco started to run normally at any speed.

So this is the result:

VID_20190116_185749.mp4 (6,093kb) downloaded 50 time(s).



Offline mal  
#19 Posted : 22 January 2019 12:44:54(UTC)
mal

United Kingdom   
Joined: 24/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: England, Salcombe
Excellent job, good to see it running!
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