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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 29 January 2017 16:01:11(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Hello, Everyone:

I am banging my head against a wall: I am trying to get the MS2 to run a DCC loco from the starter set that came with an Ice train and a diesel loco BR 218.

I believe one of the two locos should have address no 3, but it does not work. None of the nearby addresses works either.

I tried to change the CV and the MS2 keeps on telling me that it times out.

No other loco/wagon was present on the track while I tried to run a DCC loco.

Do you have any words on wisdom for me?

Thanks.

Silvano

P.S. The Marklin 30000 does run on the K track; so at least I connected successfully one Marklin loco.

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 January 2017 16:14:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Do you have any words on wisdom for me?
In German we say: "Kaum macht man’s richtig, schon funktioniert’s."

Make everything correct and all of a sudden it will work.

Not much information to get started.

Are these Roco train?
MS2 connected to right rail and left rail without connection to the centre rail?

Detect loco is worth a try. It works somewhat irreliably with the MS2, but still worth a try.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#3 Posted : 29 January 2017 16:30:33(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Thank you, Tom. Please do ask whatever other info may be needed.

To answer your questions:

1. It is a Roco set: 51256 that came with a Multimaus and both locos worked well with it; I have since traded it for my gray MS2 and am happy I did.

(I am now trying to use the black MS2 from my recent purchase of a Marklin start set to run DCC locos as well as Marklin locos on the K tracks.)


2. The MS2 is connected to the K track - works with Marklin and all I did is swap the Marklin loco for a Roco digital loco that came with the Roco set.

(These are the K tracks I used before to run in analogue both DC and analogue Marklin. As a testing procedure, I only connected a few straight tracks.)


3. I tried using the "find" function - no luck. I also tried changing the address to 1-6, no luck. I also tried to reset the CV by using the no. 8 value, but the message is always that the process is timed out.

Thank you.

Silvano
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 29 January 2017 16:49:38(UTC)
H0


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When you switch from Märklin #30000 to one of your Roco locos, you have to change the wiring - how the MS2 track box is connected to the track.
No connection to the centre rail, red to the right rail, brown to the left rail.
Regards
Tom
---
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Offline baggio  
#5 Posted : 29 January 2017 17:06:42(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Done.

I switched the wires - now red to "O" and brown to "B". No luck.

The Marklin 30000 still works just fine (I did not think it would Confused )

I changed addresses 1-6 to no aval. I tried to program the CV to 8 to reset it - time out. Cursing

Woot Scared
Offline baggio  
#6 Posted : 29 January 2017 17:46:44(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
If it makes a difference, I am using a feeder track to connect my MS2 to the K tracks: 2290.

Here it is: 2290 Feeder track
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2017 17:53:41(UTC)
H0


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The 2290 feeder track cannot be used for two-rail operation as it connects both outer rails.

You cannot operate Roco locos without centre-rail slider with a 2290 in the layout.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2017 18:11:10(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Unfortunately, then this means my dream of operating via the MS2 both Marklin and Roco DCC on the same layout (but not together) seems to have vanished.

Angry ThumbDown

Thanks, Tom, for your help, MUCH appreciated.

Have a good Sunday.

Silvano
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2017 18:15:31(UTC)
H0


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Location: DE-NW
Do not use the 2290 feeder track. Make your own feeder track out of e.g. a 2200 - a feeder track with three wires (left rail, right rail, centre rail).

I did that with C track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2017 18:23:02(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
I will try, thank you.

I will also try using the 2295 contact track set to see if it helps. Except I already tried it and it did not work. But maybe I will use it in a different way.

Here it is: 2295 Contact track set

Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2017 19:56:00(UTC)
H0


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Using two 2295, one with the cable clips on the left rail, one with cable clips on the right rail, will do the trick for the Roco locos.

You can use a 7504 to provide power to the centre rail.

You can use two 7500 instead of the two 2295.
Regards
Tom
---
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Offline baggio  
#12 Posted : 29 January 2017 23:19:43(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto

I had to leave the house, so I just saw your latest reply. Thank you for it. BigGrin

I will follow what you suggested over the next few days and we shall see what I come up with.

Something for me to shoot for.

Offline applor  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2017 00:49:12(UTC)
applor

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Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Do not confuse the DCC protocol with DC (direct current).

I have plenty of locomotives that are 3 rail AC that I run using the DCC protocol on my MS2 connected to K track.

As mentioned your Roco 51256 has a DCC decoder but it is for 2 rail DC, not 3 rail AC.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline baggio  
#14 Posted : 30 January 2017 05:05:48(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Good news, thank you, HO. BigGrin

You said: "You can use two 7500 instead of the two 2295." So I did, and FINALLY the MS2 worked on my two DCC locos - the diesel and the Ice.

As expected, by removing the feeder track, however, I lost the use of the Marklin locos - in fact the 30000 no longer works on this bench work set up.

In addition, the lights of the cabin diesel loco flicker quite a bit ; the Ice train inexplicably shorts on the track after one minute or less of running back and forth.

I will (hopefully) resolve these two issues in due course.


What is important is that now I have clear proof that the MS2 DOES work with DCC. ThumpUp

Thank you, Applor as well for your suggestion. BigGrin As you can see, I was working with DCC and not a ROCO AC version of the two locos.


What I do not understand is HOW and where I am to insert the 7504 piece to power the centre rail AND whether it would prevent the DCC locos to work if I did.


In any event, things are looking better now in Toronto. Thanks again, HO/Tom.


Silvano


Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 30 January 2017 22:04:28(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
If you want to run different types of locos on the same segment of track, the locos need to be configured to use the same conductor pickup configurations: 3 rail or 2 rail (whether its DC, AC, digital , doesnt matter). Because in 2 rail configuration, the left and right rails are isolated and the power and signal (if digital) pick is from those two, if in 3 rail configuration, the left and right rails are typically connected electrically, and the center rail is the 2nd electrical connection. The locos and cars are similarly configured often: 2 rail cars have the wheels electrically isolated (or mostly), while 3 wheel cars have the wheels electrically connected.

If you have a 2 rail loco and a 3 rail loco and you want to run them on the same track, then you need to convert ONE of them to use the system of the other. Depending on the way the locos are built you may be able to convert one to use the other (2rail to 3 rail or 3rail to 2 rail), based on changing where the pickups from wheels are and what internal wiring you can modify.

Once you have the electrical connections (2 vs 3 and the signals getting TO the loco), then you can address the issue of which digital signaling solution is being used (mfx, DCC) by configuring the decoder.

But you cannot run 3 rail and 2 rail on the same track. If you have 3 conductor (eg Märklin) track the two rails are typically connected (especially on C track), so to isolate those two to get 2 conductor running, you may better change the 2 conductor loco to use one rail and add a pickup shoe to use the center conductor.
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 30 January 2017 22:24:32(UTC)
H0


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Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
But you cannot run 3 rail and 2 rail on the same track.
You cannot run them on the same track at the same time. (*)

With a switch in the power feed you can run them on the same track at different times. You can run them at the same time on different tracks.

(*) Unless you feed the two-rail trains from the catenary. This will allow running two-rail and three-rail on the same track at the same time.


Silvano managed to run his two-rail trains and his three-rail trains on his K track. Now he just must add a switch to quickly switch between those two operation modes.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 30 January 2017 23:17:49(UTC)
Minok

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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
But you cannot run 3 rail and 2 rail on the same track.
You cannot run them on the same track at the same time. (*)

With a switch in the power feed you can run them on the same track at different times. You can run them at the same time on different tracks.

(*) Unless you feed the two-rail trains from the catenary. This will allow running two-rail and three-rail on the same track at the same time.


Silvano managed to run his two-rail trains and his three-rail trains on his K track. Now he just must add a switch to quickly switch between those two operation modes.


Yes, fair enough. ;-) I'd say, if you have to change the power feed, you've somewhat change the track configuration, but yes.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#18 Posted : 31 January 2017 00:01:54(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Thank you Minok and HO:

You probably can feel a certain amount of frustration in my recent posts on point.

The reason for my frustration is that IN ANALOGUE I have already run both sets of trains: Marklin AC and the others in 2 rail DC.

This is not theory, I have done it.

I even parked two DC locos and one Marklin loco in three separate parking sidings while I ran one more loco on the perimeter track (the actual oval).

All I needed to do is use two separate power supplies - one for Marklin and one for DC.

I connected the Marklin transformer to the track siding via the 2290 feeder track and attached to it the adapter 2295 and the adapter to the turnout.

I had no problems using the layout that related to the set up.

It was fun to run a Marklin train, park it and then pull out a parked DC train and run it on the same oval. BigGrin ThumpUp

It seems I cannot do this with digital and I do not understand WHY. Cursing Confused


HO speaks of a switch and I thank him for the suggestion, I will have to investigate this possibility with Mike at the Marklin shop.


Mink: this is possible ONLY with K track, unless you cut the C track underneath so as to sever the connection between the two rails. Sounds easy to do, but it isn't; not for me anyway.


Silvano

Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 31 January 2017 01:04:00(UTC)
Minok

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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Silvano, I can certainly feel our frustration. And it may be that I'm just confused about what the set up is. I've personally never run analogue trains, and only some digital, but in addition to having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express (at some point, and its a USA joke that doesn't translate outside of the US), I am an electrical engineer by training.

So when you say you have run Märklin AC, I assume you mean: Märklin 3 conductor trains on a 3 conductor track with central pickup shoe, powered by an AC transformer (trafo), with the DC supply disconnected.

And when you say 2 rail DC, I assume you mean some DC train powered by a DC power system, but with the AC transformer disconnected.

And I'm assuming you are using 3 conductor K-track with the two rails of k track disconnected from one another, so you have 3 independent conduction paths on the entire layout.
I'm also assuming that all of the track is electrically connected - that is that your not switching off power to segments other trains are on, even if they are not used.

What I'm puzzled about is how, when your running your DC train with DC power supply applied to the 3 conductor track, so + voltage on one rail, - voltage on the other rail, nothing connected to the center conductors, how is it the 3 conductor equipment (cars and loco) are not causing a short as they would conduct from the left to the right rail? Do have DC wheelsets on the Märklin locomotive with power pickups to the loco only happening from ONE side of the train? That might explain things.

Are the Märklin locos parked in an electrically isolated segment of the layout before you connect up the DC power supply?


I think my confusion comes from not being experienced in analogue running and not fully understanding the peculiarities of what bits of the layout are electrically connected to what other bits (via special tracks) and the changes in power supplies you are doing, all when switching from 3 conductor AC to 2 conductor DC running.

The 2295 provides for (near as I can tell) isolating one rail over some section of track, so you get 3 independent conductors in that area, with a connection off that segregated rail. The 2290 feeder track (Märklin indicates its only for Delta and Digital, which implies not for analogue AC operation) just patches the power into the rails. That, if its a siding, would provide isolating that Märklin loco on that siding, while its in that 2295 segregated segment past our turnout. So the AC signal you apply there nor the parked locomotive, would affect the main line connectivity and signal between the main line left and right tracks. But once the analogue AC powered loco pulls out of the siding on the the turnout/mainline, how does it get its power?

If you have disconnected the DC power supply and are also powering that main line by the same AC transformer, then things will work fine (since the DC locos would see no effective power (as both their wheel pickups see the same voltage, so a difference of 0 - aka off)

If you park the Märklin analog AC 3 conductor loco on its isolated siding, and THEN disconnect the transformer and connect a DC power supply to power your DC locos which then run on the main line, that would be fine too. Because the Märklin 3 conductor loco is on the electrically isolated section, so its conducting wheel/axles don't connect the two rails on the switch or main line (as on of the siding rails is isolated via the 2295).

Is that how you are running things in analogue (ac 3 conductor and dc 2 conductor)?

If not, maybe draw up a diagram that illustrates the way the electrical connections are in the states of AC analogue running, and DC analogue running, and post it.

But if that is how its set up and works, its surely due to the fact that you are using two different power supplies solutions on your layout, but only one of them at a time (The DC one connected to the left and right rails, the center pickups not connected; or the AC one connected to the outside rails, and the other to the center pickups).

With a Mobil Station I would think you can similarly change the location where the track box connects the power+digital signal to the track - either the outside rails (non Märklin DCC loco) or the outside + center for mfx digital loco. But you'd have to change the plugs (the center going to the one side rail) when you change over.

There is some small assumption or thing I'm not picking up on ....
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#20 Posted : 31 January 2017 01:24:42(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Hi, Mink:

I am not very good at making drawings Blushing but I made a video with respect to the Regio bi-level coaches.

In that video, right after the light goes on, on the lower part of the screen you can see the Marklin loco parked on one siding that feeds to a turnout. Before the turnout I put in the adapter that has one rail CUT and it's this cut that makes the AC current not interfere with the DC current (I think). If I put a loco/wagon beyond the adapter, then I have a short.

On the top part of the screen you can see two other sidings that have DC locos and both are fed to another turnout. Each siding also has the same adapter so I can turn on and off the DC current to that siding.

Hope this helps.

(I no longer have that layout - I change my layout pretty often.)

Here is the video:

Regio Wagons Video.

Offline baggio  
#21 Posted : 31 January 2017 01:30:20(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
To clarify: The top siding - the empty one - is the parking for the DC Ice Train that in the video is standing still on the perimeter of the oval.

(The Ice Train is actually digital, but I was running it in analogue DC as I still do.)
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 31 January 2017 08:31:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I'd say, if you have to change the power feed, you've somewhat change the track configuration, but yes.
A few years ago I saw a huge module layout at the IMA Cologne where they can run two-rail and three-rail trains at the same time. They switch segments between two-rail and three-rail as the train advances.
It's just a matter of flicking switches, not pulling plugs.

I am not sure but I think they even support digital and analogue at the same time. It just depends how many power supplies and what type of switches you have ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 31 January 2017 20:01:32(UTC)
Minok

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Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
I'd say, if you have to change the power feed, you've somewhat change the track configuration, but yes.
A few years ago I saw a huge module layout at the IMA Cologne where they can run two-rail and three-rail trains at the same time. They switch segments between two-rail and three-rail as the train advances.
It's just a matter of flicking switches, not pulling plugs.

I am not sure but I think they even support digital and analogue at the same time. It just depends how many power supplies and what type of switches you have ...


That must have been very interesting to see. Operating that layout would take some constant effort, but could be quite fun, flipping switches as the trains proceed down the tracks.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#24 Posted : 31 January 2017 20:35:20(UTC)
baggio

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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
I am finding that interacting with the trains as they run is a lot of fun.

In fact, I use the slave MS2 to control a second train while I control a first train with Master MS2. The effort needed to avoid a collision and keep a good distance between the two trains (especially when going at a good pace) makes it a lot of fun. ThumpUp

Come to think about it, even just flipping a switch of a digital turnout to have the train change direction keeps my interest up.

Interaction is particularly important to keep the interest up if one's layout is relatively small, as mine is.
Offline Minok  
#25 Posted : 31 January 2017 20:49:32(UTC)
Minok

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Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Before the turnout I put in the adapter that has one rail CUT and it's this cut that makes the AC current not interfere with the DC current (I think). If I put a loco/wagon beyond the adapter, then I have a short.


So that special rail where one side is cut, isolates one of the rails in the siding. That keeps the 3 conductor locos and cars from causing the left and right rails to be connected (shorted) when the track is powered by a DC power supply. Its not preventing AC current; just isolating the 3 conductor Märklin locomotive (and possibly cars) from causing the two rails to be connected.

When your switching between AC with 3 conductor with 2 common rails and center puko pickup operation, and DC with the 2 conductor on the rails operation, you are changing out power supplies and how they connect to the track, correct?

So if you want to use a Mobile Station 2 to run 3 rail mm/mfx Märklin trains and 2 rail DCC trains on the same layout, you would also have to change the power supply. Still using the same equipment but move the location of one of the track feed wires from the center studs to the outside studs (on the side you have isolated for the Märklin siding(s). In Märklin mode the two wires would go to one rail and the center conductors (pukos). In DCC 2 rail, the wires would go one to the left rail and one to the right rail. I'd think that would work so long as you only have locos and rolling stock compatible with that connection system on the non-isolated track main segments.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline baggio  
#26 Posted : 31 January 2017 20:52:57(UTC)
baggio

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Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
In fact, I am getting a switch in a day or two from Mike so as to see if I can finally accomplish the deed. BigGrin
Offline baggio  
#27 Posted : 02 February 2017 04:52:33(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
DEED ACCOMPLISHED ON TEST BENCH LAYOUT! ThumpUp ThumpUp

Today, I went to Mike's and obtained the following gear:

1. Blue Sea Systems WeatherDeck Panel switch;

2. Item no 7504 - the little clip that gives power to the centre rail WITHOUT affecting the two rails around it;

3. Mike's explanations on how to set it up at home - crucial. BigGrin


RESULT:

By flipping the switch one way or the other, I get to run on the same tracks either my Marklin 30000 OR my Roco diesel BR 218 (DCC). Cool

(I can also run my Roco Ice 2 loco that came with the digital starter set no 51256 [as did the Roco diesel BR 218 loco] but, inexplicably, after I run the Ice 2 loco for one minute, something in it creates a short and the MS2 red STOP light comes on. If I leave the loco on without moving it, this does not happen. This also does not happen if I run it in analogue and did not happen when I ran it in digital with the Roco Multimaus Confused)

Problem solved - at least as far as using BOTH Marklin and DCC on the same layout is concerned - now I have to deal with the Ice 2 issue. Such is life.

That is all from Toronto.

Over.

Silvano
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Offline Thewolf  
#28 Posted : 02 February 2017 15:06:33(UTC)
Thewolf

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Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hello Baggio Cool

It is a fact that Mike is one of the best delaers, Marklin technician. ...Personnally for me the best

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline mike c  
#29 Posted : 04 February 2017 02:07:03(UTC)
mike c

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Silvano,

one thing that you have to pay very careful attention to is to ensure that when you are running in DC or 2 rail DCC, that ALL locomotives, cars and coaches that are designed for operation on 3 rail AC are removed from that particular track/circuit as the non-insulated wheelsets on any of those will cause a short. I also don't know whether your track has any switch tracks on it, as Maerklin switch tracks also connect the two outer rails to each other. I know that some people have modified them to eliminate that issue.

I am also curious about the use of the Maerklin CS or MS with such a set up, as I am not sure what the MM signal might do to a straight DCC decoder. I wonder if the MM output can be disabled so that only the DCC signal is present.

I have a short test track that I can use either with AC or DC, much the way that Randy had it set up at John's Photo.

If you are going to use a switch to select AC or DC or MM Digital or DCC power source, I would recommend that you use a switch that allows you to select only one option, as having two connected at the same time can cause significant damage to equipment.

Try running the ICE2 and eliminate one intermediate coach as you go along until it is just powerhead and pilot coach. Does that model have a relay to select whether power is coming from the powerhead or the pilot coach? If yes, there may be some issue with the relay when used with Maerklin DCC.

Just out of curiosity. Can you power the ICE 2 from the catenary? If yes, try running it and see if the same problem occurs. As there is only one panto per consist, it should not have the issue mentioned above.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline baggio  
#30 Posted : 04 February 2017 07:38:42(UTC)
baggio

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Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
one thing that you have to pay very careful attention to is to ensure that when you are running in DC or 2 rail DCC, that ALL locomotives, cars and coaches that are designed for operation on 3 rail AC are removed from that particular track/circuit as the non-insulated wheelsets on any of those will cause a short.


Not if you use a Contact Track Set (no. 2295) that has one rail cut in the middle. I used this in an analogue set up - coming off a turnout - and worked very well. I even let a whole Marklin train stay there while I ran a DC train and had another parked. ThumpUp

The switch I got from Mike is just that, a switch, meaning I switch from one type or the other onto the track. It is not a splitter.

The Ice 2 train does not use catenary - see Marklin's description. I wonder if ANY of Marklin's present loco use catenary any more.

I am considering now the unthinkable: using a pre-cut (on the back) C track set of tracks in place of the horrible K track. Mike here would probably do it for me for a small fee. BigGrin The turnouts, however, may be more tricky.

Thank you for your feedback.





Offline kiwiAlan  
#31 Posted : 04 February 2017 20:29:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

The Ice 2 train does not use catenary - see Marklin's description. I wonder if ANY of Marklin's present loco use catenary any more.


The ET194 locos produced at the end of 2016 have the option of using catenary.

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Offline fkowal  
#32 Posted : 05 February 2017 00:43:57(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Toronto
Märklin does equip many of their electric locomotives to be run with catenary. However in recent years, particularly with less expensive models such as the 36xxx series the pantographs are not electrically connected so you must run these models from the track. You will need to see the little pantograph icon with the locomotive description in the catalogue to be assured catenary power supply will work.
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Offline baggio  
#33 Posted : 05 February 2017 06:58:21(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
So, I finally put together a simple oval in the shape of two herring bones such that in the middle it's almost like a reverse loop but it isn't. The train comes back in a separate track, adjacent to the first one.

The new K track layout runs DCC and, with a flip of the switch, Marklin.

As before, on the test track, the Roco Ice 2 train creates a short after running one minute or less. I have no idea what causes it but it has nothing to do with the set up since the other loco, BR 218, works very well. ThumpUp

(The problem with the Ice 2 is a pity since I now only have one DCC loco in good working order and I have no particular interest at this time to buy another DCC loco.)

What is important for me, though, is that I have accomplished a little feat: having both systems run on the same track.

Of course, I could not have done it without the helpful assistance of all who answered my questions here in this thread and Mike at the Marklin shop. ThumpUp

THANK YOU to all! BigGrin
Offline H0  
#34 Posted : 05 February 2017 08:35:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fkowal Go to Quoted Post
However in recent years, particularly with less expensive models such as the 36xxx series the pantographs are not electrically connected so you must run these models from the track.
They did the same with early Primex locos to save a few cents (class 141, maybe more).

The ICE 3 class 406 has a pantograph on the powered car and can be run from catenary.
The ICE 3 class 403 has no pantograph on the powered car and cannot be run from catenary.

Motorised pantographs are never electrically operational (at least I don't know any Märklin models). You would brick the loco when you lower the pantograph digitally ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#35 Posted : 06 February 2017 13:21:31(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Toronto
UNHAPPY DEVELOPMENT:

The BR 218 now has also the short problem when I run it with the MS2. Sad

I have tried shutting off the light on the BR 218 and it worked. After a while, the loco slowed down a lot but continued running and picked up speed back to normal. It kept on running.

I then tried turning on the cabin light and eventually the the short re-appeared - the MS2 dreaded red light came on.

I then tried again without the cabin light and it works fine.


WHY does the light make a difference????? Confused


I tried the same thing with the Ice 2 - no luck - the loco just keeps on shorting the MS2 with or without lights on.

Is there a problem with the set up, the locos or both?

Any suggestions?

Thank you.
Offline eroncelli  
#36 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:11:14(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
...

The new K track layout runs DCC and, with a flip of the switch, Marklin.


... BigGrin


I think you mean "2 rails" and "3 rails": you can have DCC and MM2/mfx in both rail systems (coding is not related to "rails").
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