As a corollary to the above question, I wonder if MFX locos when shipped out from the factory do NOT have an address.

If so, then upon being put on a layout by the buyer the locos are given automatically an address that does not conflict with other locos on the layout.

Is this a correct proposition?

If so, then the mystery of the above matter could be solved by assuming that the dealer already registered the loco to make sure it worked.

If so, then by simply changing the address of the OLD loco so as to leave free the address used by the new loco one could register the new loco as usual.

Am I on to something?

Silvano

A distinction needs to be made between the mFX decoders actual unique address, and the virtual one assigned by a (each) CS2 as it builds its roster.

As each unique mFX is discovered by a CS2 , the CS2 assigns the next virtual address starting from 1.
It is this address that the direct select keyboard allows you to use as a quick dialup.

Back to your original issue -
while it is not expected that decoder IDs themselves might be the same - it is not unheard of either.

I think you need to provide more information about your loco and the actual symptom.

To answer the questions:

Forum: 3Rotaie;
Loco: Orient express;
Protocol: Marklin; and
Controller: CS2.

For me, the first question I need to have answered is this: when one buys a brand new loco shipped directly from the factory without having been touched by the seller, does that loco have an address or not?

Second question - if the loco does not have an address already, upon registration on the buyer's layout, does the loco check to find an EMPTY address that would not conflict with the addresses already used on the layout?

Thanks.

I think in the early part of the ECoS with RailComPlus was when you've changed the CV's on a loco decoder and put it back onto the track it wouldn't re register as Tom has explained above, now a days its not a problem anymore.

Silvano,

HO can translate Italian with google , no ?

Thewolf

Yes, HO, that was the problem in question: you buy a loco and does not want to be registered on you controller, say an MS2, because your MS2 has already given that address to another loco. However you do not know WHICH address.

In view of the above, then all you need to do is dust up your $50.00 MS1, have the loco registered there, then change the address on the MS1 to one free on the MS2 list. You then put the loco on the MS2 track again, the loco this time smiles at you and runs like the wind.

Is that all correct or am I missing something?

If I am right, then we should all have an MS1 handy for such (rare) cases when this happens (or call Mike, he'll know what to do).

Good enough to understand that this thread is in a secret area, only accessible for registered users.

With mfx, a loco will remember the ID of the controller and the address it was assigned. When it encounters a new controller it will prompt for a new address. If it encounters a known controller, it will not prompt for a new address.

Sometimes an old MS1 or the MS2 of a friend can break the lethargy.
Maybe even a test with an analogue transformer can break the lethargy.

Still speculating as I didn't see the original Italian question yet. But this sort of mfx problem has been discussed many times before on many fora.

It cannot harm to have a second mfx controller for testing purposes, even if it is just an MS1.

Well, the problem did exist and it manifested itself to that Italian user who had to send the brand new, expensive loco, back to the seller to fix.

This is what the seller told him in English:

"Hello Mr. Damilano,

with mfx-protocol the locos will get an internal address when they register. Every
loco has its own address. In your case it could be that the loco of set 26922 has
an address which is already registered in your CS2, but for another loco. So, it
won't register new.
You sent the loco back to us and we registered it on our CS3 (we haven't resetted
it). With this process the loco has got a new internal address. We sent it back to
you and the loco could register because it has now a new internal address which is
unknown in your CS2. That all happend in background.

You can also do that if you have a second mfx center like a Mobile Station or so.

I hope you understand my explanations.

Best regards

...."

Anyway, maybe it's me, but I am left still with some confusion about how this works and I would have liked to be CLEAR on point. I do not like the feeling that I may buy a new loco, not be able to use it and not know what to do about it. That's all.



Sorry, HO, I did not realize that only registered users could have access to the forum. I will ask on point and get back to you.

This doesn't altogether add up as an explanation of the problem. The description by Tom is a better explanation.

The reason this is not a good explanation (as in having previously had a loco from a same set) is incorrect is because you can have multiple locos from the same catalog number sets, and the mfx protocol will identify each one separately and assign each one a different mfx address. It can do this because each decoder has a different serial number (except in isolated cases as noted above).

Any problem I've ever had with a mfx loco failing to register has been solved by doing a reset of the MS2.

As Silvano does not, as far as I know, have the extra complication of a CS2 I suspect he needs nothing more complicated than that in the unlikely event of a faulty registration.

This statement implies that no attempt was made to check/update the decoder firmware, which may have assisted in cleaning up any registration recovery issues.

Note: I would expect ANY dealer to perform an update, any time a loco was sent in for repair - regardless of whether it was directly related to the reported symptom or not.

Yes, a loco has set an address by Maerklin before shipping. Please read always the attached manual for the loco first. Under the point "Functions" you always find a description of the pre settings and possibilities for this loco. Also the pre setted digital address of the loco is quoted there. Also it is mentioned, which functions are available for a use in the analogue modus.




If you buy a loco with a mfx or mfx+ decoder installed inside, the systems automatically recognizes the mfx modus and is setting up a correct, not used address. There the mfx is always used at first priority of Maerklin AC system, a conflict does not occur.

If you use the fx decoder or other formats as DCC, you have to set up the locos manually anyway. Then you are careful enough, not setting up a digital address twice. For the DCC programming Maerklin offers a special DCC calculator. See the homepage address here

http://www.maerklin.de/d...formationen/dcc-rechner/

Unfortunately as so often: only in German available.

By the way, at the moment it is the absolute advantage of Maerklin's mfx technology for locos that they are working bidirectional. This means that not only a signal is send from the controller to the engine. Also a signal - as a response - is send from the engine to the controller too. So all necessary information from a new loco is always automatically transmitted and installed between the loco and the system. It is obvious, that it is only functioning with controllers, who understand the mfx or mfx+ format.

Since I am a bit like Saint Thomas (who would not believe something unless he touched it with his hand), I dug up the booklets for two MfX locos that I have, the steam 36243 and the electric GTS 36619 and, sure enough, each one had a "function" heading and the address that was set at the factory. To my surprise, they BOTH had the same address: 24.

When I originally put these locos on my layout, neither had any problems in being recognized and being registered.

I then decided to check what address these locos have and to my surprise, once again, they BOTH STILL have the same address: 24.

Now, with the same address, I would expect that there would be confusion on the layout - not so at all.

Which, once again, makes me think that there is something here that does not make sense.

(Incidentally, I also checked the booklet for the entertainment car - 43868 and there are TWO addresses given: 78/79. When I checked the MS2, it had used the first address, 78.)

Anyway, thank you, Teewolf for taking the time to write such a long response, MUCH appreciated.

To you and all users I wish a HAPPY BEFANA (today "la Befana" is celebrated in Italy and other European countries. It's a bit like Santa Claus - brings presents to good children and coal to the bad ones. I always got presents....)

RailCom+ does the same as mfx, but faster and more reliable.
So the "absolute advantage" really is a "relative disadvantage" because mfx has a design flaw (confirmed by ESU - Märklin will probably never admit that) and mfx uses weak feedback signals that can easily be disturbed.

While RailCom+ is faster, the RailCom cut-outs can cause problems with some non-RailCom decoders.
So there is no system with only absolute advantages. But it is impressive to see RailCom+ at work at club meetings.

It's at moments like this that I feel like giving up on digital and sticking to analogue.

For the reason he stated. There are reasons for updates - they often fix existing problems that only surface when an item has been in the field for a while.

For a period of time I was involved with repairing PCBs out of minicomputers. Any PCB we sent back to the factory had all the current updates applied to it before it went to the repair bench. Often this was enough to fix whatever problem existed with the board.

CLEAR as a bell, THANK YOU Alan.

No, Ray, you did not confuse me.

What you did instead is made me realize that I was off the wall in thinking as I was with respect to mfx decoders.

THANKS!

Ray,
please read only page 21 English version of the manual for the MS 2 60653. Although there are much more other places you find described, that even a MS 2 in slave modus has a loco database. The storage space at the MS 2 is limited up to 40 locos (see page 5 manual). And what else is a storage space? A basement for data! Short: a database.

"It is possible with the “Slave” Mobile Station to enter locomotives from the database or
to enter them manually. If these locomotives are to be available on the “Master” Mobile
Station, then they must also be entered there. It is not possible to assume control of locomotives
from the “Slave” to the “Master”". - Quote from the MS 2 manual.

Why the hell do I have to enter locos from the database (or manually), if there is no database and the information shall come from the decoder? Is Maerklin stupid enough to write these words in his manual without any reason?

Of course there is no need to use the loco cards, except you have a fx-decoder. But the question and my answer was not generally. It was limited to the question and a proposal. Instead sending the loco to the dealer for programming. On page 6 of the manual you find the description how to set up a new loco via a loco card.

There you are able to understand some German as well, you find more descriptions on page 7 f of the manual. And on page 8 is a warning, that it is only functioning, if you did not alter the original set up digital address by Maerklin ("!Dies funktioniert nur, wenn die werkseitige Adresse der Lokomotive nicht verändert wurde."). So there is a need to know the original set up digital address by Maerklin.

I am asking myself, who is giving here misinformation.

And of course, if the loco is enrolling itself via the mfx signal, it automatically sets up various digital addresses, which are excluding any internal conflict. And this includes that they never set up one address twice. But this is one of the major advantages of mfx. You must not be a programmer to use the digital system! But also you do not have to know the actual used internal digital address while your loco is running on your layout.

regards
TEEWolf

Edited by user 08 January 2017 01:01:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi baggio,

no, please never confuses. There is absolutely no need to give up the digital MRR. It is fun and of­fers you so many choices and chances, you never get in a analogue system. And Maerklin helps everybody. Even people, who do not have a Master in Engineering or Computers.

The main problem is only, that in some communities some people, who do neither read the askers ques­tions nor do answer them, but they know everything. Then they lead you down into the deep valley of computer techniques, which has actually nothing to do with the original questions. Neverthe­less, I have the impression that also some people are not really reading carefully the questioner matters.

But always I am very delighted, when somebody sets up allegations without any substantiations and/or convincing evidences. Isn't this always very charming?

I agree completely with your statements.


My impression for Maerklin is, the engineers develop their articles in this direction very well. But your statement
is correct in my opinion.

I think exactly the same. M has a tremendous lack in its marketing, but not in its engineering. As a business man I do not understand, why M is unable to translate all its German publications into other languages, because they already provide the desired information. Ok, generally translations were expensive – 35 years ago, when I started into my business life in 1982. But today you get it via Google for free.

You know, it was the time right between the appearance of the first IBM PC at all and the IBM PC XT. 1983 my brother bought an IBM PC XT for 20.000 DM! In the same year I bought a VW GOLF I GTI, also for 20.000 DM. And today?

The listed price by VW in Germany for VW Golf GTI starts 2017 at 29.625 Euro (!!!). But for a computer you only have to pay round about 1.000 Euro in Germany. (yeah, of course it depends on the technical equipment inside, but for a reasonable gaming computer this is a achievable price.)


Ohlala, a very good question. I got this experience last year, when the toy shop, selling Maerklin in my home town, closed forever. Ok, the next dealer is about 20 km away. But I do not like him. I was there to get some spare parts and information. He neither ordered the spare parts for me nor could he give me advice. Finally I got both through the internet. – further questions?

Also the translation technology by computers will be much more developed as today. You will (and can) translate all Maerklin publications in German by yourself, if perhaps M has not yet done be­fore. As mentioned in other threads already, Maerklin is publishing plenty of information. But un­fortunately it is not good structured and often not translated into other languages.

A very typical example for me is M's book “Einstieg in Märklin Digital”, subtitle: “Die Mehrzugsteuerung”, M-art. # 03081. Get a look here:
http://www.maerklin.de/e...s/details/article/03081/

The tragic is, that on the backside of the cover M wrote: “Märklin Digital: Ihr Guide zum Thema digitale Steuerung” (translated: “Maerklin Digital: your guide on the subject of digital controls”). Maerklin is correct. I learned and still learning from this book of M's digital system. But why do they not publish it in English? Absolutely not understandable and I do not have an answer.

Well, today M is owned by a private business man, Mr. Sieber sen. His son, Sieber jr., is still too young to run a company like Maerklin, although he is already playing the general manager – but this is another story. Important is the senior. He controls the capital and built up already his own com­pany, the Simba-Dicky-Group. A German Ltd. and toy factory and dealer. This group does annually sales of about 600 to 700 Mio €.

As the main capital owner of Maerklin too (his son is the other one), he knows the wishes of cus­tomers. And as it was told to me, he himself should be seen very often in the Maerklin plants and buildings. It is only a matter of time, that there comes up significant changes in the M policy. But he has time. Although M has declining sales, they do have a profit rate by about 4% of sales, as the last published figures shows. Amazing.

No, that is not quite right. You do get a translation via Google, for free. But you don't necessarily get a good and correct translation via Google. That still requires a human with domain expertise and some solid knowledge in the languages in question. Just reading your posts, I can understand what you mean to communicate, but I feel pretty confident that someone who is only an English speaker (single language) would often draw incorrect conclusions of what you a writing. Because they don't understand the grammar and words used in both languages. I can spot text you write where I can see "ah, this was said in a German way and translated somewhat literally". Those are cases where the English version would never bee expressed that way.

This is all even more so critical and difficult in technical writing, where the precise term used can make a substantial difference due to what it can imply.

Going back to Baggio's response with the data requested they indicated:


So what is that exactly? Is it mfx? Is it Märklin Motorola?

From following the rest of the thread it appears it is mfx, but "Marklin" is not one of the actual protocol choices in the world, its a brand name. This is why the correct usage of terms is critical in translating and why its easy to get lost down the wrong rabbit hole when inaccurate terms are used.

Product documentation in general seems to be something of a dying art.

I recently bought a new Smart TV which came with a small pamphlet showing how to put the legs on and nothing else. Most items refer you to an online manual, which seems to be the easy way out, but some products don't even have this.

It seems to be assumed that buyers instinctively know how to work their new gadgets nowadays. Certainly teenagers don't seem to bother with instructions any more, they just switch on and play...

My experience with retaining the services of a professional translator through a company is that for a few hundred dollars you get plenty of text translated.

If you consider that such a translation will then be used for hundreds of locos/wagons, the overall cost does not seem to me all that important. This is particularly true if M used one company to do all its transaltions or better still hire a person to do that.

In this respect, given the use of English as a modern-day Esperanto, M's failure to do so seems odd.

Hi, Jim:

Take a look at my post no. 16 - it may help you. I quoted a bit of it.

Do you have an MS2 or do you know anyone /store that you can use to register the loco again separately?

While your problem may not be identical to the problem the Italian chap had, I think it comes down to the same thing: faulty MFX registration and the cure may still be changing the initial address.

It's worth a try.

If this does not work, try calling Mike at Westend Trains in Toronto at 416.251.6124 and explain the problem. Mike may be able to tell you what you can do to have the matter resolved faster than sending the loco back to Germany. Mike's e-mail is: westendtrains1@bellnet.ca Offer to pay a fee for the advice and assistance.

Let us know how this works out.

Hi Silvano,

I read that post and found it interesting but I have no other devices on which I can register that loco and I know only one other Märklin user anywhere nearby. I was under the impression that you could not change the internal address and that was how the mfx system kept track of each decoder, regardless of the virtual address each CS uses internally. It does seem that my CS2 has some reference to that chip now though because it does not find any unregistered decoders when I search.

I bought this from Euro Rail Hobbies in BC and I emailed Walter but I have not heard anything back yet. They have become virtually unreachable by email since their move, although occasionally I do get someone to answer the phone. I hope to talk to him next week and discuss options with the hope of not returning it to Germany and paying shipping charges.

I will post something if/when this is resolved. My last two Märklin purchases have been delivered with significant defects and I am starting to question investing more money into their products at this time.