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Offline applor  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2016 05:57:24(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi guys,

I have recently been building my new layout with K track and only wide radius points/track on the mainlines.

Unfortunately I have made a grim discovery. It seems my Marklin BR44's, of which I have two (37884 and 37889) both short circuit when travelling over wide radius turnouts (22715/22716) in the straight direction.

At first I thought it was the pickup shoe but with close examination at slow speed it seems it is actually the first axle on the tender.
I think the flanges may be a bit too wide with too short a shaft, which means as the axle travels over the point the wheel flange is actually just touching the centre stud at the turn!

This is quite a big issue and design flaw from Marklin. It is a difficult position now in trying to find a solution - maybe new wheel sets for the axles?

Has anyone else encountered this problem or has a marklin BR44 3788x series and Marklin K track wide radius turnout and can confirm?

I am now very worried I may have other locomotives with this problem as well. It looks like my BR50 (37848) may have the same tender, I will need to test it now and confirm.

Do you think I have any chance of Marklin responding to an e-mail about this and having a solution (such as alternate wheel sets)?
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2016 06:17:57(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Well I have done further testing and found that the problem is with only one of my turnouts in particular.

All my track is brand new so maybe its a manufacturing defect. I am still not sure what is causing it though.

When testing with my BR50 at the slowest speed, the pickup shoe is actually catching on something and the train stops moving and the wheels keep turning!
For the BR44, it results in a short circuit.

Good news I guess, in that it is only one faulty turnout. I just wish I had more time, I will need to try and diagnose what is wrong because with close inspection it appears identical to the other one right next to it that works OK...
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline applor  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2016 06:38:16(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Video showing the short circuit with the BR44 and me tapping the tender to fix:

modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by applor
Offline Dave Banks  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2016 06:45:20(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Hi Eric, my BR52 #37171 condenser tender would derail with regularity on my C-track Double slip. It was the loco that derailed & shorted out on the double slip that destroyed my CS2. So in a nut shell it was an expensive "ouch" on the pocket. Swap out the pickup shoe with another loco's & or change wheels as an experiment. Can you reduce the tension on the pickup shoe. You ending up with a short when it derails. Try some weight on the tender as an experiment. Confused
D.A.Banks
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2016 07:24:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Eric I've noticed there is some side movement on the tender, take the axle out and measure it against other axles and see if it is either to wide or to narrow and you should be able to correct it with some object.

sliders or pick up shoes depends what type it is, so I can't give you advice or suggestions what to implement.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Shamu  
#6 Posted : 19 November 2016 08:03:43(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
There was a similar thread a year or 2 back where someone used short bits of heat shrink tube on the pukos to prevent wheel contacting the pukos on a turnout...... or maybe a slip...... can't recall

EDIT:

See this post https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t34485-Best-K-track-turnouts--I-like-slims-but and in particular Fabrice's reply at post #5. The link in that reply shows a photo of how the sides of the puko are protected with HST.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 19 November 2016 08:11:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

I have recently been building my new layout with K track and only wide radius points/track on the mainlines.

Unfortunately I have made a grim discovery. It seems my Marklin BR44's, of which I have two (37884 and 37889) both short circuit when travelling over wide radius turnouts (22715/22716) in the straight direction.

At first I thought it was the pickup shoe but with close examination at slow speed it seems it is actually the first axle on the tender.
I think the flanges may be a bit too wide with too short a shaft, which means as the axle travels over the point the wheel flange is actually just touching the centre stud at the turn!

This is quite a big issue and design flaw from Marklin. It is a difficult position now in trying to find a solution - maybe new wheel sets for the axles?

Has anyone else encountered this problem or has a marklin BR44 3788x series and Marklin K track wide radius turnout and can confirm?

I am now very worried I may have other locomotives with this problem as well. It looks like my BR50 (37848) may have the same tender, I will need to test it now and confirm.

Do you think I have any chance of Marklin responding to an e-mail about this and having a solution (such as alternate wheel sets)?


I suggest you bend slightly stud centre or try cut 1 mm of the stud.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline French_Fabrice  
#8 Posted : 19 November 2016 09:20:27(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Eric,

Yes, as Shamu told you, I had similar problem.
The solution was to add heat shrink tube around some pukos, to prevent lateral contact of the wheel to the puko.

See there: https://www.marklin-user...ke-to-sawmill#post498222

I hope this will help you.

Cheers
Fabrice
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
Offline applor  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2016 05:24:25(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Hi everyone,

Thanks all for the replies and assistance. As previously discovered, my loks ran fine on the other wide radius turnout I had so my investigations have been focused on the turnout that fails.
I took notice that the short circuits appear to happen on the middle pukos, so I took out my ruler to measure.

I have discovered the faulty turnout has a distance of 3.5mm from puko to rail, while the others are 4mm.
While this is very small, it is clearly enough to cause an issue.
First, I tried some large pliers to pull the puko further away from the rail. I couldn't really move it but even the minuscule amount fixed the issue with the BR50.
The BR44's still had problems though, which is because their tender axles have a wide flange.

My method of rectifying this issue - trim the side off by a tiny amount using my dremel.

I can report this change has now fixed the problem!

For reference I have highlighted the pukos that were trimmed. Before laying each turnout I will have to measure this distance and modify if required to avoid this issue.

IMG_0877.JPG
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by applor
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