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Offline locogr  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2016 16:10:26(UTC)
locogr


Joined: 04/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello everyone!

This is my first ever post here, since I m new to this forum and brand new to this hobby too.

I recently bought the digital starter set 29074. I have to say that my first contact with Marklin was very disappointing.

I followed exactly the manual instructions included in the set for setting up the steam loco, but nothing seemed to work right.

First of all, the controller cannot recognize automatically the loco. It keeps saying no mfx loco found. Only thing that can be found is a dcc-0 loco, as the controller names it, with an era V-VI symbol, that runs only in full speed and does not go reverse.

The only way to be able to control the loco is to disable all protocols except mm2, and register the loco manually, from the database with product number 29161 (it's a br74). Even doing this, sometimes you have to manually push the loco to start moving. Additionally, when you set the speed too slow and the loco stops, you need to push it again with your finger to start moving again, even if you set the speed higher.

I bought another loco 36614, and I have almost the same behavior. The controller cannot find automatically the loco with mfx. It works fine only if you choose manually the loco from the database of the mobile station 2 (6057 black version). This time, fortunately, it is no necessary to choose only mm2 as a protocol, it works with the default option enabled in mobile station, that is all protocols enabled. It also doesn't have movement and pushing problems like the previous steam loco described above.

The strange thing is, that almost nothing of the above happens, if you try to control the locos with central station the store I made the purchase has. The steam loco br 74, registers automatically with mfx, but still you have to enter its address manually or it won't move. Even sometimes it needs a bit of pushing forward by finger, before it starts to move. I sent the steam loco back to my dealer for testing already, but isn't that strange? Anyone came up with same situation before?

What is wrong ? Bad loco? Bad ms2? Bad control box?

As far as I can tell, my mobile station 2 uses the latest software v2.5.

It's a pitty for a starter, to get a starter set and have all these problems. Not working as it should discourages newbies like me to go on with the hobby.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed.
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 04 September 2016 16:53:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi,

It's refreshing to find a newcomer to the Hobby so well versed in the use of the MS2, so first of all congratulations on that!

Did you buy this set from a local dealer? You should go back to the dealer and ask them to set up the whole set in their shop. There might be something wrong in one or more of the components, but it's difficult to tell from what you've reported exactly where the problem lies.

The loco in this set should register automatically. You should not have to do anything else other than place it on the track and press the "stop" button to power up the layout. There might be something wrong with the loco, especially if you say you need to push it to get it to move!

Just a thought, give your tracks a good clean. It could be that your tracks have become slightly oxidised from being exposed to warm moist air.

Your other loco 36614 is not an mfx loco, so that one will need to be registered manually exactly as you described.

Without any further information I would guess that your Br74 is faulty. Your dealer should replace it under guarantee.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 04 September 2016 17:17:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,727
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ray more or less said everything you could do or should know, except the loco has a worm gear you shouldn't push it.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline locogr  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2016 17:58:42(UTC)
locogr


Joined: 04/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Thank you so much for your immediate answer. The br loco is on its way for replacement already.

As for the 36614, didn't knew it was no mfx, so I m glad to hear that it's normal to manual register it, otherwise I could thought that the ms2 or the rail box is faulty.

Thank you again for your advice. I will keep post when I have further news from the faulty loco.
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 05 September 2016 05:04:10(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: locogr Go to Quoted Post
Hello everyone!

Hi,

This is my first ever post here, since I m new to this forum and brand new to this hobby too.

I recently bought the digital starter set 29074. I have to say that my first contact with Marklin was very disappointing.

I followed exactly the manual instructions included in the set for setting up the steam loco, but nothing seemed to work right.

First of all, the controller cannot recognize automatically the loco. It keeps saying no mfx loco found. Only thing that can be found is a dcc-0 loco, as the controller names it, with an era V-VI symbol, that runs only in full speed and does not go reverse.

The only way to be able to control the loco is to disable all protocols except mm2, and register the loco manually, from the database with product number 29161 (it's a br74). Even doing this, sometimes you have to manually push the loco to start moving. Additionally, when you set the speed too slow and the loco stops, you need to push it again with your finger to start moving again, even if you set the speed higher.

I bought another loco 36614, and I have almost the same behavior. The controller cannot find automatically the loco with mfx. It works fine only if you choose manually the loco from the database of the mobile station 2 (6057 black version). This time, fortunately, it is no necessary to choose only mm2 as a protocol, it works with the default option enabled in mobile station, that is all protocols enabled. It also doesn't have movement and pushing problems like the previous steam loco described above.

The strange thing is, that almost nothing of the above happens, if you try to control the locos with central station the store I made the purchase has. The steam loco br 74, registers automatically with mfx, but still you have to enter its address manually or it won't move. Even sometimes it needs a bit of pushing forward by finger, before it starts to move. I sent the steam loco back to my dealer for testing already, but isn't that strange? Anyone came up with same situation before?

What is wrong ? Bad loco? Bad ms2? Bad control box?

As far as I can tell, my mobile station 2 uses the latest software v2.5.

It's a pitty for a starter, to get a starter set and have all these problems. Not working as it should discourages newbies like me to go on with the hobby.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed.



Hi,

Because it is new: give the total set back to your dealer, where ever you bought it and get a new set. It minimize your hassle. The set is brand new! I cannot believe it.

But because of different indicators, I have a suspicion, but I cannot yet bring it to prove. Because I am still waiting for my CS3. To me it seems to be a problem of the MS2, the digital connector box (60116) and its software. I guess these modules does not have enough power to produce a sufficient strong digital signal to supply your locomotive with the necessary power, either to send and/or receiving from your loco. Give it back to Märklin and tell them: it does not work!

I think this, because you wrote it does work with a CS2. I know this effect by myself. I have a mfx loco which is not running under a power supply by a MS2 and a digital box connection, but it is running under a CS2 power signal supply.

Just a little background for my guess. The CS2 has 3A power supply, the MS2 only 1,9A. Again, I have to test it yet. But at the moment you cannot buy a CS3. The CS2 is still at dealers available, but still too expensive, after the announcement of the much better CS3 controller. But you have to know, if you use more electric power, you have to use also a cabling with a bigger profile as you find at the 60116. But this is another, more complicated theme.

At the moment I have 2 MS2 and one 60113 (the predecessor of the 60116) box and similar problems, but only if my tracks are a little bit dirty. So I bought several cleaner wagons and the cleaner dwarfs from NOCH. They are hanging always beneath one wagon in each train and do a good job, because my mfx is functioning without any problems. Nevertheless what troubles me, my locos with a mfx+ decoder on board does not (or perhaps not yet, because they are all newer as the mfx) show the problems of the mfx decoder locos. Again, I have to prove it, after getting my CS3.

Finally: don't worry - be happy!

regards

Wolfgang
Offline baggio  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2016 05:21:54(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Hi, Locogr:

I had a similar problem with my little diesel loco of the construction starter set: it needed to be slightly pushed to get going from start. The loco was replaced right away by Mike here at the Marklin shop.

Eventually, the problem resurfaced again on the new one. I think it was just a matter of a bit of a clean and done by Mike. Two or three years later, the problem has resurfaced again in one variation or another such that at lower speed the loco acts up a bit and makes noises. Probably it is due for another clean. I love this loco because it is a really good runner. BigGrin

I agree with you wholeheartedly that a new starter set should work very well right out of the box since a good experience is what "hooks" customers to Marklin. Sadly, it is not so.

Problems do surface on occasion. That is why I like to buy from a local dealer who is able to fix the problem(s) on the spot and under warranty if and when they occur. I found Marklin locos somewhat prone to needing the tender loving care of a technician. If not right away with time (under two years).

Still, you will find that Marklin is overall a good manufacturer, but probably no better than Roco and other 2-rail manufacturers. I found 2-rail locos less prone to problems (but they are all analogue locos or used on an analogue layout).

I do think that you will enjoy the digital environment Marklin has to offer, provided you lower your expectations a bit in terms of "superb quality": not so; but also NOT bad quality overall. Marklin is good, but far from perfect.

I keep two ovals - one inside the other - one digital - Marklin - and one analogue - 2-rail, Roco, Piko, Walthers and others. I really like having access to the best that is availble in both systems. Analogue is MUCH cheaper than digital. Marklin no longer makes analogue locos.

My two pennies' worth.

Silvano



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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2016 08:09:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
The CS2 has 3A power supply, the MS2 only 1,9A.
The CS2 60213 and early 60214 are limited to 2.4 A - not much more than the 1.9 A of the MS2.
And the 1.9 A of the MS2 are enough to have 6 locos running at the same time. So IMHO you cannot blame mfx registration problems on the amp rating of the MS2.
The MS1 only had 1.2 A max output and came with a 1.0 A power supply, but mfx registration worked with it.

The description given by locogr sounds like dirty/corroded track (pushing the locos on the track until they get contact), not like a lack of power.
Several years ago Märklin announced they were using a new plastic formula and no longer had to degrease the rails before installing them. Now we get dirty rails ex works.

Has anybody compared the internals of 60116 and 60113? It could be that 60116 was modified for FCC compliance, thus making it less sensible for mfx feedback.
See also:
https://www.marklin-user...r-50-mfx-loco#post525345
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline TEEWolf  
#8 Posted : 05 September 2016 17:09:01(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
The CS2 has 3A power supply, the MS2 only 1,9A.
The CS2 60213 and early 60214 are limited to 2.4 A - not much more than the 1.9 A of the MS2.
And the 1.9 A of the MS2 are enough to have 6 locos running at the same time. So IMHO you cannot blame mfx registration problems on the amp rating of the MS2.
The MS1 only had 1.2 A max output and came with a 1.0 A power supply, but mfx registration worked with it.

The description given by locogr sounds like dirty/corroded track (pushing the locos on the track until they get contact), not like a lack of power.
Several years ago Märklin announced they were using a new plastic formula and no longer had to degrease the rails before installing them. Now we get dirty rails ex works.

Has anybody compared the internals of 60116 and 60113? It could be that 60116 was modified for FCC compliance, thus making it less sensible for mfx feedback.
See also:
https://www.marklin-user...r-50-mfx-loco#post525345



Hi Tom,

first of all: please, who or what is IMHO?

second: did you read my post? Obviously not thoroughly.Crying

First I wrote from a suspicion Huh, which I cannot proof at the moment. But I have made some experiences and observations Blink. Second, my major fact in the post is not the electric power of the MS or CS. Huh There might be an influence out of them, but this always could be only a part of the problem, never the problem at all.

My major fact of the problem is the dirt on the tracks BigGrin and their effect on the bidirectional digital signals flushing over these tracks.Cool Third I explained, how I handle my "dirty problem"Huh and what are the results out of my solution.BigGrin You are free doing it different.

Regards

WolfgangCool
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2016 18:51:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
When the track is dirty then a controller with more power will not make the track cleaner nor will the loco get more power from the dirty track.

The programming track output of the CS2 has a rating of just 1.0 A - and loco registration on the programming track works fine. It probably works better than with the MS2, even though the latter has 1.9 A max output.

Do not expect better mfx registration from the CS2 just because the main track rating is higher.
But mfx registration may work better because hopefully the mfx input of the CS2 has a higher sensitivity (just speculation or wishful thinking).

Re IMHO: A list of MRR and general purpose acronyms can be found here:
https://www.marklin-user...tionary-of-Abbreviations
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline baggio  
#10 Posted : 05 September 2016 19:14:26(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
If I may, it would be better to use plain English for everyone's sake.

Having to look up a list of abbreviations when reading posts does not seem very efficient.

Thank you.

Silvano

P.S. A new starter set should have CLEAN tracks. How do they become dirty in the box?????
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 05 September 2016 19:28:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
If I may, it would be better to use plain English for everyone's sake.
There is a "P.S." in your post. So even you accept that some abbreviations are common knowledge, don't you?

How far do you let use go beside "P.S."?
"&c."?
"e.g."?
"i.e."?
"AFAIK"?
"IMO"?
"IMHO"?

We could all try to restrict ourselves to the ten hundred most common words of English.
https://blog.xkcd.com/20...ew-book-thing-explainer/
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Webmaster  
#12 Posted : 05 September 2016 19:44:39(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Well, we have to see positive at things and tolerate well established shortenings that have been used on the Internet for decades now - otherwise everything will go FUBAR... Wink Smile

The challenge is that most members are not native English speakers (including myself), and that international Internet community experience varies among us all
- So we just have to do our best to bridge the gaps... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 05 September 2016 20:06:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
If I may, it would be better to use plain English for everyone's sake.

Having to look up a list of abbreviations when reading posts does not seem very efficient.

Thank you.

Silvano

P.S. A new starter set should have CLEAN tracks. How do they become dirty in the box?????


I suppose you mean the tracks are oxid?
C tracks do oxid often and worse contact like K tracks.
I have seen model railway with both of the tracks and they do oxid a lot.
When i buy new tracks,i make sure to clean up them first on the rail and stud contact.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline baggio  
#14 Posted : 05 September 2016 21:59:54(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i buy new tracks,i make sure to clean up them first on the rail and stud contact.


How is it that brand new tracks are dirty (or oxidized, if you like)?

I mean they are in a CLOSED box, never used, so should they not remain nice and clean and ready for play?

Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 06 September 2016 00:41:53(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i buy new tracks,i make sure to clean up them first on the rail and stud contact.


How is it that brand new tracks are dirty (or oxidized, if you like)?

I mean they are in a CLOSED box, never used, so should they not remain nice and clean and ready for play?



Hi baggio,

I agree with you, absolutely. New tracks should not be dirty. This was another reason, why I recommended locogr to change his complete new set. But do we all know, what is packed at Märklin? Do we know, perhaps Märklin has packed some tracks already used for testing purposes before? What we knew is that one - out of how many people we are here? - has had no “luck”. I bought a starter set Bundesbahn 29040 myself and I was fully satisfied till up today. I unpacked it, plugged it together as the manual told me and it still run perfectly. But you know, sometimes "shit" happens.Crying

But also I agree with goofy's post #13 above. Perhaps our friend RayF - from Gibraltar - can tell us more about oxidation of tracks?

Because, as we all know, Gibraltar has not only the monkey mountain (MMBigGrin - no it is not a Märklin format!Laugh). It is surrounded by salty water and when you go there you always have this light salty water smell in the nose, what you always and only get near a sea. I have been at MMBigGrin and tested it. Good fresh airLove, sometimes with a fine vague breath of fish in it, but never continental dry! (oh la la - I am not dreaming of a white Christmas, but of a blue sky, sunny holiday in Gibraltar. Sitting down town on the docks of the bay, eating fish and chips, listen to the music of the seagulls, guzzle a glass of red wineBlushing, wouldn't it be fine?Mellow Sorry – back to hobby facts).

But I think for electronics and fine mechanical parts, like a model railroad, you have to take more care about it, as in a dry climate.

But what I was told at last years Märklin Days: never use an abrasive paper for cleaning tracks. Always use a felt or a woollen cloth. Märklin published in the Märklin Magazine something about cleaning. Find the links here:

MRR cleaning tip 1a

MRR cleaning tip 1b

And perhaps somebody knows the links to the English versions?BigGrin

Baggio – don't you live near the Great Lakes? They are the biggest sweet water area in the world. What climate is there?

Regards

Wolfgang
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Offline baggio  
#16 Posted : 06 September 2016 00:59:31(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Baggio – don't you live near the Great Lakes? They are the biggest sweet water area in the world. What climate is there?


Well, Teewolf, I live very close to Lake Ontario. It's very nice to look at but VERY polluted. I really don't think many people swim there. Some areas are better than others.

Having said that, there are wonderful cottage areas 100-300 kms away that are just great to enjoy during the summer for those who can afford a cottage. However, one can also rent a cottage at prices that rival hotel prices but allow many people to stay together for one rental fee: Maybe CAD$1,000.00 per week and up.

I would love to visit Gibraltar and our friend Ray, but is not likely ever going to happen.

Cheers everyone, fall is arriving. BigGrin
Offline PMPeter  
#17 Posted : 06 September 2016 04:34:34(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i buy new tracks,i make sure to clean up them first on the rail and stud contact.


How is it that brand new tracks are dirty (or oxidized, if you like)?

I mean they are in a CLOSED box, never used, so should they not remain nice and clean and ready for play?



The tracks are probably nice and clean from any dirt, oil, grime, and the like. However, depending on how long the track has been in the box it is still exposed to air unless someone has vacuum packed it or sealed it in plastic. Therefore any humidity or air quality changes will affect the tracks inside the boxes and can cause oxidization. Therefore, the longer the track has been in a box, the more likely it is that it will be oxidized and will not conduct electricity properly to the loco. We are dealing with very low voltages in our hobby and it doesn't take much to create an unwanted insulation.

Cheers
Peter
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Offline Rwill  
#18 Posted : 06 September 2016 08:55:40(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Well, we have to see positive at things and tolerate well established shortenings that have been used on the Internet for decades now - otherwise everything will go FUBAR... Wink Smile

The challenge is that most members are not native English speakers (including myself), and that international Internet community experience varies among us all
- So we just have to do our best to bridge the gaps... Smile



If we are not immediately familiar with the expression FUBAR then a quick google leaves us in no doubt !!!

Of course since most of us are fluent in Latin then PS is part of our daily vocabulary but maybe it is not quite so obvious: http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ps

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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 06 September 2016 09:02:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi everyone,

As Wofgang has pointed out I live in a warm moist environment and have some experience of oxidation of tracks.

The problem was much worse on my older M tracks, but C track rails are still made of metal and will oxidise. I have had no problems with my latest starter set, bought earlier this year on a visit to luxembourg, but older tracks which have been sitting in a box for a couple of years sometimes refuse to conduct electricity until cleaned thoroughly.

On my permanent layout the problem is made worse by dust settling on the tracks and mixing with oil deposited by locomotives. If I don't run trains at least every other day then I find "dead spots" appearing on the track. Occasionally I have to give the whole layout a good clean. I've found that a dry cloth dipped in white spirit or alcohol and rubbed vigorously over the tracks will take all deposits off the metal, ensuring good contact. If you have catenary this can be quite a challenge! Last year I took all the catenary off the layout to make the cleaning job easier, but since then the wires don't line up as well as they did and I can no longer run the locos with the pantographs up. I need to re-do the catenary at some point to get it right again.

Another victim of moist air is coach and wagon roofs. All my tinplate coaches and wagons with metal roofs have spots of rust. Eventually I will need to re-spray them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 06 September 2016 09:06:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
The tracks are probably nice and clean from any dirt, oil, grime, and the like.
Take some new tracks out of the box and wipe the outer rails with a white cloth.
Free of dirt? Yes.
But oil and blackening will leave traces on the cloth. The blackening improves the look, but is bad for the electric contact. The oil does not improve the electric contact either.
Contact problems can also exist inside the loco, e.g. between axle and frame. Some Märklin locos arrive dry as a bone, some locos arrive with oiled traction tyres and over-oiled axle bearings.


German text: "Um die Schienenstränge aus Metall herzustellen wird ein Öl verwendet, das bei den Gleiskörpern aus Kunststoff zu Schäden führen kann. Das Öl muss deshalb vor der Montage entfernt werden. Nicht so bei Schienen aus Luran® S. Hier ist das Entfetten nicht mehr notwendig, denn das ASA der BASF ist beständig gegen Öle und verhindert so Spannungsrisse und –brüche an den Gleishalterungen."

Short translation: Oil is required to shape the outer rails. With the new plastic formula, the rails can be mounted without degreasing them - a step that was formerly required.

Full article (German):
http://www.kunststofffor...uf-sicheren-gleisen_2918
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 06 September 2016 09:22:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
I suggest TS to clean the tracks and check inside of the locomotive.
Also clean the locomotives wheels by use chemical gasolin.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline dominator  
#22 Posted : 06 September 2016 10:15:05(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,196
Location: Kerikeri
Maybe you guys could use a little car polish sparingly on the rails. That would clean and polish them also leaving behind a light polish film whim may reduce oxidation. There is no substitute for using your set every day of course. i live in an area similar to Gibraltar so I have the same problem as ray [ including those bloody roof problems. I think I will have to start polishing all my metal rolling stock.
[ bloody big SIGH ]

When I first moved to Kerikeri I thoroughly cleaned all my rails and [ yes here it comes. a bad idea so one should do this ] wiped a minimal smear of oil on the rails. [ I basically barely dampened my finger with the oil and wiped it along the rails ] I have had no real problems but i do have to run my fingernail along the rails every now and again to remove the buildup of black stuff. [ no tunnels ]

I didn't touch my set up for nearly ten years while I spent the time with my Norton Commandos, became involved with bands again, and became an orphan.

I agree also with those who said to take the whole set back to the dealer and get them to make it run properly. You would not buy a new car, and accept having to push it to get it going would you.????

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline baggio  
#23 Posted : 06 September 2016 13:43:23(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
chemical gasolin


Gasoline? OhMyGod Confused
Offline Minok  
#24 Posted : 06 September 2016 23:39:09(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


first of all: please, who or what is IMHO?


IMHO: In My Humble Opinion - "In meiner bescheidenen Meinung"

OP (original Poster):

More generally, as others have said - even new in box, the parts are stored in a non-air-tight condition.
Over time the air and other manufacturing output (plastic offgas, general residue) can coat the rails or center conductor studs. Simple wipe down should clean.

Could also be oil/oxidation on the wheels and pickup slider on the locomotive.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 07 September 2016 09:15:41(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
chemical gasolin


Gasoline? OhMyGod Confused


Yes

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#26 Posted : 07 September 2016 10:31:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
chemical gasolin


Gasoline? OhMyGod Confused


Yes



Any solvent will do the job.

Of course one must be careful that the solvent does not attack the plastic roadbed
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#27 Posted : 07 September 2016 14:36:38(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Any solvent will do the job.
Of course one must be careful that the solvent does not attack the plastic roadbed

I clean my track with isopropyl alcohol. It is inexpensive, works very well, readily available and does not damage other parts. I also use it to clean the wheels of my rolling stock and the oil points in my locos. I have been using it for many years and I have never had any issues.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline TEEWolf  
#28 Posted : 07 September 2016 16:04:45(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


first of all: please, who or what is IMHO?


IMHO: In My Humble Opinion - "In meiner bescheidenen Meinung"

OP (original Poster):

More generally, as others have said - even new in box, the parts are stored in a non-air-tight condition.
Over time the air and other manufacturing output (plastic offgas, general residue) can coat the rails or center conductor studs. Simple wipe down should clean.

Could also be oil/oxidation on the wheels and pickup slider on the locomotive.


I agree with you. Do you have also further experiences with this "dusk to tracks"? I read in another thread, that on the tracks the major dirt is not the normal, regular dusk. It should be the abrasion from the wheels of the trains. Mainly from the locos with their traction tire rings on the wheels.
Offline TEEWolf  
#29 Posted : 07 September 2016 16:42:59(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Maybe you guys could use a little car polish sparingly on the rails. That would clean and polish them also leaving behind a light polish film whim may reduce oxidation. There is no substitute for using your set every day of course. i live in an area similar to Gibraltar so I have the same problem as ray [ including those bloody roof problems. I think I will have to start polishing all my metal rolling stock.
[ bloody big SIGH ]

When I first moved to Kerikeri I thoroughly cleaned all my rails and [ yes here it comes. a bad idea so one should do this ] wiped a minimal smear of oil on the rails. [ I basically barely dampened my finger with the oil and wiped it along the rails ] I have had no real problems but i do have to run my fingernail along the rails every now and again to remove the buildup of black stuff. [ no tunnels ]

I didn't touch my set up for nearly ten years while I spent the time with my Norton Commandos, became involved with bands again, and became an orphan.

I agree also with those who said to take the whole set back to the dealer and get them to make it run properly. You would not buy a new car, and accept having to push it to get it going would you.????

Dereck




Excellent Dereck,
but shouldn't be an avatar name like "track terminator" not be better than "dominator"? Laugh Love LOL
Wolfgang

PS (=post scriptum)BigGrin - sorry I am one of these latin fellowsLaugh , although I finished my Latin classes at the gymnasium (British I guess it is a grammer school?) at he age of 16! But thanks friends! All this good new informations and in addition these abbreviations for "PS" LOL - I really love it.
Love Love Love

Offline TEEWolf  
#30 Posted : 07 September 2016 18:19:35(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

As Wofgang has pointed out I live in a warm moist environment and have some experience of oxidation of tracks.

The problem was much worse on my older M tracks, but C track rails are still made of metal and will oxidise. I have had no problems with my latest starter set, bought earlier this year on a visit to luxembourg, but older tracks which have been sitting in a box for a couple of years sometimes refuse to conduct electricity until cleaned thoroughly.

On my permanent layout the problem is made worse by dust settling on the tracks and mixing with oil deposited by locomotives. If I don't run trains at least every other day then I find "dead spots" appearing on the track. Occasionally I have to give the whole layout a good clean. I've found that a dry cloth dipped in white spirit or alcohol and rubbed vigorously over the tracks will take all deposits off the metal, ensuring good contact. If you have catenary this can be quite a challenge! Last year I took all the catenary off the layout to make the cleaning job easier, but since then the wires don't line up as well as they did and I can no longer run the locos with the pantographs up. I need to re-do the catenary at some point to get it right again.

Another victim of moist air is coach and wagon roofs. All my tinplate coaches and wagons with metal roofs have spots of rust. Eventually I will need to re-spray them.



Thanks Ray for your very informative report, very kind and helpful.

But isn't it nice: you travel to Luxembourg to buy new dry tracks! Blink

Well, this with the catenary is indeed a problem. My link "MRR cleaning tip 1a" (post #15) shows you a very uncomplicated simple solution from the company "Joerger". (see pictures page 2 - bottom line).

But my proposal: BigGrin Cool BigGrin BigGrin
of course, Maerklin should develop a much more sophisticated solution. Confused I suggest a new “Cleaner-E-loco” in a fantasy design by Maerklin, Huh with an extra special 3rd pantograph on top, controllable also by a new function key – say function # 21 – for cleaning the catenary. And while this loco is at work, they should establish more new function keys. Perhaps # 22 to switch the power supply for the digital locos (only possible with digital Locos!) between the catenary and the electrical contact points (the so called pukos, “down under” the locos, between the two rails). Whereas in the future function # 23 and 24 always should be used for lifting and sinking the regular pantographs. This gives Maerklin new arguments for rising prices Angry Crying and offering a new loco. Flapper And myself makes the live easier: I do not have to take away and reposition the locos from the tracks switching between catenary and “down under” (sorry, did not find another English word) power supply. The effect for Maerklin: sales, sales and more new sales!Laugh Laugh Laugh

Further effect, because for the new function keys, you have to buy a “new CS 3 plus extra” (not yet on the market – but Maerklin never cares about that). LOL LOL LOL

Oh, here comes up an further abbreviation for Latin lovers Love , I learned during my study classes at university: “SPQR”.Huh
Regularly in Latin “SPQR” means “Senatus Populusque Romanus”
(= „the Roman Senate and the people of Rome”).
But which words do the abbreviation signify in the USA? Very obvious:
Small
Profits
Quick
Returns
LOL Love LOL Love LOL
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Offline Sparrow  
#31 Posted : 07 September 2016 19:19:29(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Hi guys.
I have lived both in a humid and a dry climate (and regarding humidity, both humid and hot and humid and tempered) and I have not found an extreme difference in the rate of dirt build up on my tracks. Rust has not been an issue either. Jerez is not far from Gibraltar (about 120 km) and 20 km from the coast, so overall climate is much the same, but local conditions can be different (of course living in the Rock is like living onboard a ship all year around). I, of course, agree that M track is much more rust prone than C track.
But I do find a difference between analog and digital operation. The former is virtually inmune to dirt, but the latter is much more sensible, especially when you run lightweight locos. My personal experience is that the problem comes more frecuently from the puko line than from the rails. Usually a clean cloth is enough to remove the offending dust or dirt layer, both from the rails and the pukos.

And on a different note, it is funny how internet jargon is permeating plain talk. My children say "LOL" a lot when they find something funny, but not funny enough to laugh openly. Needless to say that makes absolutely no sense in spanish!

Best regards.
Luis.
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Offline RayF  
#32 Posted : 07 September 2016 20:55:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Luis,

Here we have the dreaded "Levante" or Easterly wind which brings very hot and humid conditions. It can probably get hotter in Jerez, but the air will be drier.

I agree that Digital is more sensitive to dirty tracks than analogue. There are probably several reasons for this, but one thing I know for sure is that in digital operation I run my trains more slowly than in analogue, making it more likely that they will stall on a dirty patch.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Sparrow  
#33 Posted : 07 September 2016 23:54:56(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Luis,

Here we have the dreaded "Levante" or Easterly wind which brings very hot and humid conditions. It can probably get hotter in Jerez, but the air will be drier.

I agree that Digital is more sensitive to dirty tracks than analogue. There are probably several reasons for this, but one thing I know for sure is that in digital operation I run my trains more slowly than in analogue, making it more likely that they will stall on a dirty patch.



Yeah! Levante wind is the best kept secret in Cádiz. I´ve suffered it a lot of times, but this summer has been particulary unsparing regarding that particular wind. It is not that bad in Jerez, though, but the air is only marginally drier.

I concur in your interpretation on stalling. A typical carachteristic of digital driving is acceleration delay. No matter how fast you want a loco to run, it will always start slowly (just like IRL -In Real Life- he, he), and that is the most critical moment. If a loco is going to stall, it will likely do then, and that is very annoying. This could explain, at least in some cases, the need to push it to gain momentum enough to achieve a more steady run. A clean track and a well adjusted slider can solve a lot a problems.
Best regards.
Luis.
Offline RayF  
#34 Posted : 08 September 2016 00:25:10(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Sparrow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Luis,

Here we have the dreaded "Levante" or Easterly wind which brings very hot and humid conditions. It can probably get hotter in Jerez, but the air will be drier.

I agree that Digital is more sensitive to dirty tracks than analogue. There are probably several reasons for this, but one thing I know for sure is that in digital operation I run my trains more slowly than in analogue, making it more likely that they will stall on a dirty patch.



Yeah! Levante wind is the best kept secret in Cádiz. I´ve suffered it a lot of times, but this summer has been particulary unsparing regarding that particular wind. It is not that bad in Jerez, though, but the air is only marginally drier.

I concur in your interpretation on stalling. A typical carachteristic of digital driving is acceleration delay. No matter how fast you want a loco to run, it will always start slowly (just like IRL -In Real Life- he, he), and that is the most critical moment. If a loco is going to stall, it will likely do then, and that is very annoying. This could explain, at least in some cases, the need to push it to gain momentum enough to achieve a more steady run. A clean track and a well adjusted slider can solve a lot a problems.


Yes that's true.

Sometimes when the track is dirty I turn off the acceleration/braking delay with the tortoise icon, so that the loco accelerates faster and doesn't stall at slow speed.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline baggio  
#35 Posted : 08 September 2016 01:50:10(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
in digital operation I run my trains more slowly Woot than in analogue, making it more likely that they will stall on a dirty patch.


I told you slow speeds are BAD for you! LOL
Offline RayF  
#36 Posted : 08 September 2016 09:10:28(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
in digital operation I run my trains more slowly Woot than in analogue, making it more likely that they will stall on a dirty patch.


I told you slow speeds are BAD for you! LOL


I should have seen that coming! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline locogr  
#37 Posted : 08 September 2016 11:32:33(UTC)
locogr


Joined: 04/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Concerning the turtle icon on mobile station 2, when the turtle is bold the train accelerates and stops almost immediately.

If the turtle is not bold, the train starts and stops smoothly.

I got confused. Isn't that suppose to work the opposite way?
Offline RayF  
#38 Posted : 08 September 2016 13:28:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: locogr Go to Quoted Post
Concerning the turtle icon on mobile station 2, when the turtle is bold the train accelerates and stops almost immediately.

If the turtle is not bold, the train starts and stops smoothly.

I got confused. Isn't that suppose to work the opposite way?


No, it is working as intended. The button is for disabling the acceleration and braking delay. If it is not pressed then the loco accelerates and decelerates smoothly.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#39 Posted : 08 September 2016 13:31:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: locogr Go to Quoted Post
I got confused. Isn't that suppose to work the opposite way?
That's how "turn off" functions work.
The turtle icon turns acceleration and braking delay off. A rocket symbol might be more appropriate ...

I think even more people get confused by "squealing brakes off".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline locogr  
#40 Posted : 08 September 2016 14:16:05(UTC)
locogr


Joined: 04/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
That's true.

Common sense says, turtle is on, so stops smoothly.
Turtle is off, stops immediately.

Like the lights on/off button.

But...anyway... :-)
Offline baggio  
#41 Posted : 08 September 2016 14:22:13(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I will have to try again this turtle function. I have used it, but did not notice any difference in operation of the locos.

Frankly, if by putting it on, the train accelerates FASTER, then Ho is right, a rocket symbol would be better.
Offline locogr  
#42 Posted : 08 September 2016 17:00:04(UTC)
locogr


Joined: 04/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I will have to try again this turtle function. I have used it, but did not notice any difference in operation of the locos.

Frankly, if by putting it on, the train accelerates FASTER, then Ho is right, a rocket symbol would be better.


Indeed! Ha ha !

As for the difference in your trains, be sure they support abv function. (But I think almost all, even the cheapest locos,do)

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Offline jpaulfr56  
#43 Posted : 08 September 2016 19:49:22(UTC)
jpaulfr56

France   
Joined: 12/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 79
Location: BRETAGNE, Morbihan
Hi all,

Generally, the function « F4 » is used for two modes:

1 / A true “Turtle mode” for a limited number of locomotives: the max speed is divided by 2 or higher. For example, locomotives 39190 and 39221 models have this mode. It’s possible in this mode, to have a locomotive running at a very low speed for shunting.ThumpUp
For this mode it's necessary to switch"ON" the function F4.

Note: These 2 locomotives used a CSinus motor.

2 / A second mode "Direct Control", for a majority of locomotives, where acceleration and deceleration speed may be removed (F4 "ON"), and in this case the speed of locomotives move step by step and it’s possible to heard (perhaps it's necessary to have a musical ear Wink ) the changes of speed steps. Blushing
In this case "OFF" is the common mode which activates acceleration and breaking speed parameters.

Regards from Morbihan
Jean-Paul
Digital command TAMS Easy Control & iTrain. Period II & III
Link to my digital layout
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#44 Posted : 10 September 2016 17:00:52(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

P.S. A new starter set should have CLEAN tracks. How do they become dirty in the box?????


The box that the start set is packed in is made from polystyrene, of the type where they compress little balls into a mould and then do something (probably heat it) to make them all stick together in the required shape. You can see the little balls if you break a piece off, the rough broken edge plainly shows the ball shapes.

Like many such substances polystyrene is a form of plastic, and made from hydrocarbons.

Just like the vinyl paneling in cars is made from hydrocarbons, and exudes fumes that deposit on the inside of the windscreen creating a film that you have to periodically clean off, or else you have problems looking through the windscreen when driving into the sun, you need to initially clean the tracks of the film that comes off the polystyrene.

Now IIRC (see list of definitions already pointed to) the poster having the problem with a new start set is from North America, so his start set has probably been on a container ship for several days, crossing the North Atlantic in the full sun with the container thereby getting quite hot. This will exacerbate the amount of fumes given off by any plastic (just like leaving your car somewhere hot means you need to clean the windows inside more often) thereby increasing the likelihood of exported sets requiring track cleaning before use.

Now personally I find the best way of cleaning tracks is a piece of heavy cotton cloth, best form is some old lab coat or cutoff from some old jeans, and some isopropyl alcohol (as already mentioned) or medicinal alcohol such as people who have pierced ears use to clean their earrings and so on, as cleaning fluid.

I suspect that what Goofy is calling gasoline is possibly what some of us know as kerosene or paraffin. Personally I wouldn't use that as it can affect paint and plastics. If he means petrol then definitely don't use that, it is a bigger danger to paint and plastics as well as being a significant fire risk.
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Offline baggio  
#45 Posted : 10 September 2016 22:14:51(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Just like the vinyl paneling in cars is made from hydrocarbons, and exudes fumes that deposit on the inside of the windscreen creating a film that you have to periodically clean off, or else you have problems looking through the windscreen when driving into the sun, you need to initially clean the tracks of the film that comes off the polystyrene.

[This sounds VERY interesting. I have always had this problem but could never figure out why!!! Thank you.]



"Now IIRC (see list of definitions already pointed to)


Are you serious? You really expect readers to have a dictionary handy to read posts? Confused

I bet $1.00 against $100.00 that most readers simply ignore what is not clear on the face of the post and (maybe) keep reading to see what it is the poster is trying to say.

I REALLY think that short forms are for teenagers.

Most of us are well past that age.

My usual two cents' worth.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#46 Posted : 11 September 2016 00:07:11(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
first of all: please, who or what is IMHO?


Always remember, Google is your friend - I've said this before, I'll say it again.

Whenever Tom uses an abbreviation I don't know the meaning of, I google it!

So, IINM, IMHO, AFAIK and IIRC that's the best way to find stuff out before everything becomes FUBAR'd. IIGHT!?

Two good sites to help with this

http://www.internetslang.com/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#47 Posted : 11 September 2016 00:08:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Are you serious? You really expect readers to have a dictionary handy to read posts? Confused


If you're on the forum, you're already using a computer........

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

Having to look up a list of abbreviations when reading posts does not seem very efficient.


Maybe not, but you do learn something!
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xxupH0
Offline baggio  
#48 Posted : 11 September 2016 01:07:28(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Each one of us does what he thinks is best. For me, when I see short forms I simply ignore them.

I figure that if the writer cared about my understanding of what he is saying, he would use plain English.

With that, I will end my contribution to this sub-issue, which in fact has nothing to do with the actual topic: "Digital starter set problems!"
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#49 Posted : 11 September 2016 01:47:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
With that, I will end my contribution to this sub-issue, which in fact has nothing to do with the actual topic: "Digital starter set problems!"


No it doesn't, but you and TeeWolf raised the issue, so Juhan, I and others responded.

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Offline cookee_nz  
#50 Posted : 11 September 2016 11:49:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
With that, I will end my contribution to this sub-issue, which in fact has nothing to do with the actual topic: "Digital starter set problems!"


No it doesn't, but you and TeeWolf raised the issue, so Juhan, I and others responded.



IMHO, and FWIW, most of these acronyms are actually very few, and from what I've read, actually used quite regularly here so the majority become quickly remembered.

(In my humble opinion, and for what it's worth...)

I would doubt there are even 10 of them.

But I also take the point that abbreviations, acronyms etc are annoying when they are encountered unexpectedly and interrupt the flow of your reading, and made much worse if English is not your first language.

I work for a large IT corporate and regularly see abbreviations thrown about in bulletins, newsletters and reports with gay abandon where the assumption by the author is that everyone else also uses them on a daily basis and therefore are equally familiar with them.

It would be magic if the forum software could automatically recognise certain abbreviation or 'internet speak' and automatically make that word a hot-zone so that if you hovered the mouse over it, up would pop the full meaning.

Something along these lines that 'might' help some of you is that it you encounter an abbreviation, or even a word you don't know, high-light the word with your mouse, then click the right-mouse button to bring up the context menu. In that menu one of the options is to search google for the high-lighted word. It's quick and effective. Exactly how the context menu works will depend on your OS, Browser etc. This example is W10, with Chrome. (PS; Mac users, sorry, no right-click and I can't remember the steps to do the same thing)

HTH (Hope this helps) ThumpUp

Cookee

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Cookee
Wellington
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