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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2016 23:43:07(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybody

I did a test with a 74391 marklin connected on a 61841 marklin (M84) . As this is the software Itrain which controls the trains, the red wire has not been connected on the B of the track.

I did igt because my dealer said to me that the red wire is not required.

The wires of the signal 74391 are connected directly to the M84 on the good exit.

Problem : the leds of the signal do not light. No current for the led...I forgot on o 2 things in the connection M84-74391,

I work with a cs2 and a computer (Itrain)

I need help please

Thank you for your help ( a connections scheme, a diorama, a plan of connections, etc...Cool )

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#2 Posted : 22 July 2016 05:17:31(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybody

I know how to do. I found on Google how to light leds. I need nothing.

All that I wish is that Marklin makes a big effort to be more explicit in its explanations. As we say in Québec they are de maudits gros caves !!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you guys

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 22 July 2016 07:57:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,840
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

IIRC the default brightness on the m84 is 0 - set a value larger 0 to see the light.

I don't have those signals, but Peter Clapcott posted that information a few times on this valuable forum. This forum is such a great place to share solutions to common problems.

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
All that I wish is that Marklin makes a big effort to be more explicit in its explanations.
For the users of the forum it is less important who solved the problem ("Mike solved the problem for me" or "Google solved the problem for me"), but more important to read how it was solved.

It's only fair to credit who solved it, but the "how" is more important.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline xxup  
#4 Posted : 22 July 2016 09:13:42(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,062
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
...IIRC the default brightness on the m84 is 0 - set a value larger 0 to see the light......


I think that might be fixed now as I used a M84 to power three of the hobby signals and they worked perfectly without any changes to the m84..

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 22 July 2016 18:38:03(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

IIRC the default brightness on the m84 is 0 - set a value larger 0 to see the light.

I don't have those signals, but Peter Clapcott posted that information a few times on this valuable forum. This forum is such a great place to share solutions to common problems.

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
All that I wish is that Marklin makes a big effort to be more explicit in its explanations.
For the users of the forum it is less important who solved the problem ("Mike solved the problem for me" or "Google solved the problem for me"), but more important to read how it was solved.

It's only fair to credit who solved it, but the "how" is more important.


Hi Tom

It was very late when I had found the solution, especially that I spent 3 hours with the Bell Canada's technical service for a big problem

I wanted to explain this solution this morning and the solution is the one that you explained about the cv 38. It is informed in the manual of 60841 but as we say at my native country, it did not make "TILT" in the old brain..

I will try this afternoon, ...but I don't know how to reach the cv 38 in the cs2. I'll see

Thanks

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2016 00:08:14(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybody

I tried this afternoon to change the value of the cv38 for the decoder. Never I founded the cv 38. I give up

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2016 08:50:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,840
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Never I founded the cv 38. I give up
IMHO the CS2 is counter-intuitive, at least with respect to DCC programming.

You can add CV 38 to the list using the "+" button. It is not there by default.
There could be a CV list for m84 decoders, but I'm not sure. If not, you can create one yourself so you find CV 38 more easily the next time.

You are not the first who has problems with the CV screen of the CS2 - and you won't be the last.

You will be able to change CV 38 if you give it another try.
In the other thread, TEEWolf recommended values in the range 7 through 9.
Connect the M84 to the programming track output of the CS2 to make the changes.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Thewolf  
#8 Posted : 24 July 2016 02:18:24(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Never I founded the cv 38. I give up
IMHO the CS2 is counter-intuitive, at least with respect to DCC programming.

You can add CV 38 to the list using the "+" button. It is not there by default.
There could be a CV list for m84 decoders, but I'm not sure. If not, you can create one yourself so you find CV 38 more easily the next time.

You are not the first who has problems with the CV screen of the CS2 - and you won't be the last.

You will be able to change CV 38 if you give it another try.
In the other thread, TEEWolf recommended values in the range 7 through 9.
Connect the M84 to the programming track output of the CS2 to make the changes.



Thank you very much TomCool

I appreciated your reply and your advice

TeeWolf offered me to help me

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline TEEWolf  
#9 Posted : 24 July 2016 05:15:32(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi everybody

I did a test with a 74391 marklin connected on a 61841 marklin (M84) . As this is the software Itrain which controls the trains, the red wire has not been connected on the B of the track.

I did igt because my dealer said to me that the red wire is not required.

The wires of the signal 74391 are connected directly to the M84 on the good exit.

Problem : the leds of the signal do not light. No current for the led...I forgot on o 2 things in the connection M84-74391,

I work with a cs2 and a computer (Itrain)

I need help please

Thank you for your help ( a connections scheme, a diorama, a plan of connections, etc...Cool )

Thewolf



Hi Thewolf,

as I wrote in the other thread already with CV 38 you set up the brightness of your signal light. Maerklin is delivering the signal with CV38 = 0. So you do not see any light, while you install your signal. Maerklin has also forgotten, to write this in his documentation. I read it know in the new Maerklin book “Einstieg in Märklin Digital” 01/2015 - art# 03081 page 127. They recommend a value for CV38 between 7 to 9. But the programming must be done in the DCC format on a separate programming track. For this you need a MS2 or CS2 as a minimum. There you got a CS2 (happy railroader) you are able doing it by yourself. Hopefully it works and solves your problem.

Regards

TEEWolf

Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 25 July 2016 12:08:56(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,377
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
There is nothing new here, but PLEASE comprehensively define and qualify your environment/product.
BOTH when asking for advise and replying with "it works for me"


Hardware
The 60841 has at least two hardware versions (I will call them v1 and v2)

V1 = without SW8
V2 = with SW8

Firmware
These units also have update-able firmware. I am not aware of any updates that may be done by users, but the units from the factory may have changed over time.

FWIW
CV#7 = software version = 17 for 60841 s/n24101300782

If anyone has other variants, I would be happy to know what they are.
NOTE: When reading CVs, always ensure you have the external power supply for the m84 - if not you will probably loose information and the "17" will appear to show as "1"


Re CV38
I believe with SW8=ON, it overrides any CV#38 value, so the lights are on at a set value, and the brightness cannot be adjusted.
According to the manual this ships from the factory in the ON position, but you should always check.





Re: CS2 programing
In the CV programming function, you may load the "60841_dcc_m84.cs2" profile file to show all the usable CVs with their (German) description.
Peter
Offline Thewolf  
#11 Posted : 25 July 2016 17:47:14(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi evervbody

Thank you Peter for your reply.

I am going to read what you explain with a clear head and to try to understand. Sorry but for me in the first reading it's Chinese

You play in the digital as I drew up the balance sheet in accounting.


I have however the possibility of calling Mike, but he asserts that it is not necessary to change whatever or in the values of CV of 60841. What makes that I am even more put under stress.

A thing is sure: it is a typical case where I regret my old Belgium. In my native country, where I lived, I had 1 delear Marklin unless 5 km and 4 within a radius of 100 km. In montréal it is 4 hours by Via Rail or 5-6 hours with a car I think

I am going to take a little of rest with regard to the layout

Have a nice day

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#12 Posted : 25 July 2016 18:14:06(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybody

I am going to read attentively Peter's comment on the file M83-M84. I have just discovered it

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 25 July 2016 18:31:50(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Hi evervbody

Thank you Peter for your reply.

I am going to read what you explain with a clear head and to try to understand. Sorry but for me in the first reading it's Chinese

You play in the digital as I drew up the balance sheet in accounting.


I have however the possibility of calling Mike, but he asserts that it is not necessary to change whatever or in the values of CV of 60841. What makes that I am even more put under stress.

A thing is sure: it is a typical case where I regret my old Belgium. In my native country, where I lived, I had 1 delear Marklin unless 5 km and 4 within a radius of 100 km. In montréal it is 4 hours by Via Rail or 5-6 hours with a car I think

I am going to take a little of rest with regard to the layout

Have a nice day

Thewolf



Hi Thewolf

don't worry be happy.Huh While I was looking for some descriptions for your problem, at least I found a post from clapcott (wow, he is a real good specialist for Maerklin) about your problem from the year 2014Laugh - I should have searched this earlier and more thouroughful - sorry.

Link to clapcott's post.

See post #54 of the topic "Informative m83/60831 m84/60841 ( 60821 60822 ) - light reading - Perspective details about new items"

Also I found the following instructions for programming a m84 with a Control Unit, CS2 or MS2 at Maerklin's database - in various languages! It is the addition, what they forgot in the m84 manual.


m84 programming


Not enough? Oh indeed, I found another topic from 2014 "problem with m84". Please have a look here

problem with the m84.

You see, you are not alone and just ask the community or your wife! They help you all. And they are not 4 hrs away - only several clicks in the internet. So you have no need to give up, especially not your hobby.Cool Mellow

Regards

TEEWolf
Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 25 July 2016 19:22:35(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Hardware
The 60841 has at least two hardware versions (I will call them v1 and v2)

V1 = without SW8
V2 = with SW8

Firmware
These units also have update-able firmware. I am not aware of any updates that may be done by users, but the units from the factory may have changed over time.

FWIW
CV#7 = software version = 17 for 60841 s/n24101300782

If anyone has other variants, I would be happy to know what they are.
NOTE: When reading CVs, always ensure you have the external power supply for the m84 - if not you will probably loose information and the "17" will appear to show as "1"



Hi clapcott,

what do you mean by "SW8"?

I read, that indeed the m84 can be updated now with a new software version. But this has not yet happened.

But compared to the k84 (I do not have these k-parts, because my railway relaunch was to late for them, the m83/84 was already on the market) it has not a bipolare stability (whatever this means - do you know this?).

"If you want to realize the bistable state of the relays and the storage of the switching state you must use the 60822 (Universalversorgungseinheit = Universal Power Supply Unit? ?correct English translation?) and 66361 (Netzteil = power supply) - both together!" This I read at "Zugkraft Stucki", a Swiss Maerklin dealer with good technical informations and explanations in the internet. (sorry, all and only in German language).
But it will be an expensive stability.Huh


Quote:
Re CV38
I believe with SW8=ON, it overrides any CV#38 value, so the lights are on at a set value, and the brightness cannot be adjusted.
According to the manual this ships from the factory in the ON position, but you should always check.


Please see my post # 13 the link at "m84 programming".


Offline Thewolf  
#15 Posted : 25 July 2016 22:11:29(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi TEEwolf

Thank you for your last replies.

I read the Clapcott's post of best that I was able to.

Very, very, very technical.

I watched a video about a M83, it's a pity that it is not M84Laugh Cool Am told me that it had to be the same thing for M84.

So I decided to do a test. What do you think about this ?

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Harvey  
#16 Posted : 26 July 2016 03:51:36(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 520
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
I received the M84 this weekend and connected it to my layout - likely violating every suggestion.

The M84 is connected (red and brown wire) to a booster which is powered by the 60065 switch mode power pack. This booster is used to power all accessories. Separate boosters/CS2 and power sources are used to power freight and passenger lines. In total 3 sets of loop wires with 3 sets of power sources. I currently am feeding one red wire from the freight power source and 1 from the passenger power source. The M84 then routes power to hidden storage yards for each. I tested this on Sunday and I was able to turn power on/off to the storage yards. No problems to-date. I will use the M84 to turn on/off lights in stations or towns. But that is still to be built.

This likely adds nothing to the discussion and proves nothing. But this is what I have done.

Harvey
Offline Thewolf  
#17 Posted : 26 July 2016 17:30:54(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
I received the M84 this weekend and connected it to my layout - likely violating every suggestion.

The M84 is connected (red and brown wire) to a booster which is powered by the 60065 switch mode power pack. This booster is used to power all accessories. Separate boosters/CS2 and power sources are used to power freight and passenger lines. In total 3 sets of loop wires with 3 sets of power sources. I currently am feeding one red wire from the freight power source and 1 from the passenger power source. The M84 then routes power to hidden storage yards for each. I tested this on Sunday and I was able to turn power on/off to the storage yards. No problems to-date. I will use the M84 to turn on/off lights in stations or towns. But that is still to be built.

This likely adds nothing to the discussion and proves nothing. But this is what I have done.

Harvey


Hi HarveyCool

Happy for you Cool


My 60841 are not defective, they work correctly... it is the signals which do not worh ( the leds)Angry

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#18 Posted : 26 July 2016 17:43:50(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi all Cool

I made the test as I had said it in the comment of yesterday.

I followed correctly step by step the video of Peter, wiith attention and accuracy.


When I want to load the "60841_dcc_m84.cs2" profile n the CV programming function of the cs2 , nothing happens. I say well: absolutely nothing

I hate wasting my time and conclusion: in 8 am this morning, a parcel is sent to Mike with all 60841, the cs2 and 2 signals 74391

The worries: it is finished

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 27 July 2016 11:19:48(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,481
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
.......at least I found a post from clapcott (wow, he is a real good specialist for Maerklin).........


He cooks a pretty good sausages and eggs breakfast as well! Very talented is our Peter!
Offline Thewolf  
#20 Posted : 27 July 2016 13:50:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
I would be happy to enjoy his breakfast BigGrin
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline TEEWolf  
#21 Posted : 28 July 2016 04:00:23(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,455
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I would be happy to enjoy his breakfast BigGrin


Hi Thewolf,

you wrote you have a CS2. In the post from 2014 you see how to set up the CS2 for programming. There I am still waiting for my CS3 and do not have any CS2, I am unfortunately not able to do some pictures to show you, how to use the CS2 for programming. But by this post from 2014 it seems easy to me to set up the DCC programming mode at the CS2. Also you will find the description in the manual of the CS2.

But you also have to set up the DCC mode at the m84 before you start your programming. To set up the DCC mode at the m84, you have to set the dipswitch #10 (at the back of the m84) to "ON". Now you are in the DCC mode with the m84. Then you set up via your CS the brightness for your signal with the value eg 8. You only can choose a value for the brightness between 0 to 10. All values over 10 will be ignored. Then you save your settings to the m84 with your CS2. When you finished this, you have to set the dipswitch #10 to "OFF". Then the m84 is back in the operating system MM2 (this is the mfx format). Now your signal should shine.

The description you find in the the manual under the link "m84 programming" in my post #13. You mentioned, you are from Belgium. Perhaps your mothertongue is French? You also find the text in French in this manual, perhaps it helps too.

Regards

TEEWolf
Offline Thewolf  
#22 Posted : 28 July 2016 17:49:15(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I would be happy to enjoy his breakfast BigGrin


Hi Thewolf,

you wrote you have a CS2. In the post from 2014 you see how to set up the CS2 for programming. There I am still waiting for my CS3 and do not have any CS2, I am unfortunately not able to do some pictures to show you, how to use the CS2 for programming. But by this post from 2014 it seems easy to me to set up the DCC programming mode at the CS2. Also you will find the description in the manual of the CS2.

But you also have to set up the DCC mode at the m84 before you start your programming. To set up the DCC mode at the m84, you have to set the dipswitch #10 (at the back of the m84) to "ON". Now you are in the DCC mode with the m84. Then you set up via your CS the brightness for your signal with the value eg 8. You only can choose a value for the brightness between 0 to 10. All values over 10 will be ignored. Then you save your settings to the m84 with your CS2. When you finished this, you have to set the dipswitch #10 to "OFF". Then the m84 is back in the operating system MM2 (this is the mfx format). Now your signal should shine.

The description you find in the the manual under the link "m84 programming" in my post #13. You mentioned, you are from Belgium. Perhaps your mothertongue is French? You also find the text in French in this manual, perhaps it helps too.

Regards

TEEWolf


Hi TEEwolf I appreciated your reply Cool

But as I explained in my comment #18, I followed perfectly the steps described in the video of Clappcott.

But the step of loading of the "60841_dcc_m84.cs2" profile in the CV programming function of the cs2 was a failure . Nothing. Nada. Maybe the M84 is defective. I don't know. I am not a specialist. My wife said to me : ' ''why do you not test with another M84 ? '' My answer : ' Fuck off the M84 . I am sick of the M84. This is for Mike ''

I am not going to continue on this problem. I am not patient. I move on and everything is sent to Mike

Yes I am a Belgian,,,but I am also a Canadian. About the French language, I would like to say that I consider that Marklin like many others factories in the world have no respect for people who speak French, but they accept the money. I think also that it is necessary to recognize that the proportion of people who speak French who want to learn English is more important than the proportion of people who speak English who want to learn French.

In fact this is another problem of whom we get out of it very well.Finally I understand very well the utility of the law 101 in Quebec but I say it too much

I said all this in all simplicity without wanting to create any debate

.Regards

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#23 Posted : 02 August 2016 17:19:03(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,853
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi everybodyCool

I received news from Mike yesterday about M84 and 74391.

All M84 and 74391work. The M84 #1 ( the only one whom I wanted to change the CV 38) was defective (I understand why I failed) He changed the cv 38 o others M84. They are ok...but the replaced M84 worked perfectly without any changes to CV38.

Thus Marklin is able to reserve us some surprises I think Blink

Of course my wife with his logic quite feminine and from Quebec did not forget of to tell me "You see if had you insisted on the second instead of crying...'' No reply from meFlapper

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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