Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Tiki734  
#1 Posted : 25 June 2016 10:11:56(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Hi
I recently picked up a 1940’s starter box which was in pretty poor condition and was close to being thrown out. In the past I have bought this exact starter set box and I had it repaired by a professional book restorer. He did a great job but it was expensive and took for ever. So this time I thought I would give it a go myself as it did not cost much US$1 plus postage US$22. The previous owner did not want to sell the original contents but he sent me photos which confirmed it was a RS 865/4. I have been in discussion with Roger Baker and we could not find any reference to this number in any catalogue. First photos are the condition I bought it in.
rs865_4 _2.jpgrs865_4 _1.jpg
There was a lot of sticky tape which had to be removed. I've never been successful with this, but it all came off and I managed to minimise anymore damage.P1220460.JPGP1220454.JPGP1220461.JPGP1220453.JPGP1220452.JPG
The best thing about buying the box was that it included 4 of the loose internal packaging pieces. These are really hard to get and they were in really good condition. Two of them were the older type with the blue backing to the cardboard. No idea why Marklin used this material. I studied the box lid that I had professionally restored and got a pretty good idea how they did it. I started with the lid and took the hard decision to remove the remains of sides of the lid. To blend in a new side would never have worked. This left me with a flat lid and no sides. I bought the cardboard and coloured card from a local art supplier and matched the colours as close as possible. The surface finish of the original paper is quite bumpy and there is no way this finish is available. This box is pre the alligator texture to the paper. I measured an original lid and made a new side and made sure that the joints were not at the corners. So it was made in two goal post pieces and joined in the middle. Dimensions were quite crucial as too small the lid would not fit over the box bottom and too big would leave gaps around the box lid.
P1220463.JPGP1220464.JPG
I then placed the 2 sections together over the box lid and bulldog clipped them together and checked it against the box bottom.
P1220467.JPG P1220466.JPGP1220465.JPG
Once I was happy with the fit the overlaps on each side marked and cut. I then used a paper glue to bond the edges and used brown paper picture framing tape to strengthen the joint. I used scrap offcuts to compress and hold the joints over night also using bulldog clips.
P1220469.JPGP1220470.JPGP1220468.JPG
The sides were now ready to be re-attached to the lid and it took some brain storming the best method. I made the hard call to glue on a new yellow internal cover. I decided that the restoration would be obvious and it would look neater done this way. It was over size as the new sides would be supported and glued the new internal.
P1220472.JPGP1220471.JPG
I picked up from my professionally restored box that he had just filled the gaps. So I mixed up some Plasti Bond which as luck be it was a deep red.
P1220496.JPG
As you can see from the photos the internal was quite badly water stained with splits, rips and bits missing so a partial replace would have looked really bad. The paper was trimmed to suit the side cardboard and the yellow sides measured and folded over.
P1220473.JPGP1220477.JPGP1220475.JPGP1220476.JPGP1220474.JPGP1220478.JPGP1220479.JPG
Once I was happy with the fit up. The new internal yellow card was glued to the lid. Good use of Koll's catalogues.
P1220480.JPG
This was the first stage that went a little wrong and I ended up with a little bit of trapped air. To late to pick it up. This new internal now gave really strong support for the sides. If you can zoom in you can see the trapped air in the middle of the yellow. Now to glue the sides to the yellow. Again using scrap cardboard and clips to sandwich the sides while the glue set.
P1220481.JPGP1220482.JPG
I now cut out the red sides. I tried to get some overlap at the corners. I used a thin metal sheet to fold over the edges.
P1220484.JPGP1220486.JPGP1220485.JPGP1220489.JPGP1220487.JPG
Once again used the same scrap cardboard to glue and fix the red over the sides.
P1220488.JPG
All four side glued I did a trial fit. It was tight but still passable. Any more and the gaps around the lid edges would have been too much as I had yet to decide how to cover them up.
P1220491.JPGP1220493.JPGP1220492.JPGP1220494.JPG
I used Plasti Bond which cures red to fill the edge gaps
P1220496.JPG
I had bought some artist paints and match coloured the yellow and red as far as possible. Hopefully the box will never see the damp as it will run.
P1220498.JPGP1220501.JPGP1220502.JPG
I then had a go at the box base and used wood glue and fixed up the side which had no red paper cover. Unfortunately this was the label side.
P1220505.JPGP1220499.JPGP1220495.JPG
Lastly I photo copied an original label.
P1220497.JPG
And finally the finished box.
P1220503.JPGP1220504.JPG
It would have taken me about 4 to 6 hours in total the evening and glue drying over night. So it took about 4 days from start to finish. It was lots of fun and I was lucky to have a good source of materials. It's obviously a restore so the intention is to not deceive but make something useful again. Sorry for the long blog and hopefully some of the members will enjoy nearly as much as myself or inspire them not to throw out any old boxes or even give it a go themselves. Hopefully I will find similar boxes in the future so I can fix then up.
Roger
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by Tiki734
Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 25 June 2016 11:20:55(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Tiki734 Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I recently picked up a 1940’s starter box which was in pretty poor condition and was close to being thrown out. In the past I have bought this exact starter set box and I had it repaired by a professional book restorer. He did a great job but it was expensive and took for ever. So this time I thought I would give it a go myself as it did not cost much US$1 plus postage US$22. The previous owner did not want to sell the original contents but he sent me photos which confirmed it was a RS 865/4. I have been in discussion with Roger Baker and we could not find any reference to this number in any catalogue. First photos are the condition I bought it in.

(snip)

It would have taken me about 4 to 6 hours in total the evening and glue drying over night. So it took about 4 days from start to finish. It was lots of fun and I was lucky to have a good source of materials. It's obviously a restore so the intention is to not deceive but make something useful again. Sorry for the long blog and hopefully some of the members will enjoy nearly as much as myself or inspire them not to throw out any old boxes or even give it a go themselves. Hopefully I will find similar boxes in the future so I can fix then up.
Roger


Hi Roger, great job and very rewarding to see the end result.

There is reference to the RS865 in the 1938 catalogue, on page 12. Although not specifically the RS865/4. On some other sets the /4 indicates 4 items of rolling stock and generally this relates to passenger sets, having 3 passenger coaches and 1 baggage car. Back in those days the start set numbering was quite a mystery with a few sets surfacing but not found in the general catalogue. It could be as simple as the RS865 being freight, and RS865/4 being passenger and if so, you are possibly looking at 3 x 327 and 1 x 328 coaches? (but that's just a guess)

rs865-1938-p12.jpg

Also the prefix on the label has relevance but my notes on this elude me for now. I'm sure Paul Deardorff may be able to add to this. Is it an 'I' making it I / RS865 /4 ?

PS - have you seen this site which deals with how to make replica boxes, and very effectively. Anyone who makes these with an intention to mislead is a scumbag but if you have an old item without a box it at least captures the essence of what it should have rather than just a plain box. And no problem on-selling it so long as the buyer is informed. A replica box is still better than a plain or no box IMHO.

Regards

Steve
NZ

Edited by user 26 June 2016 06:16:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#3 Posted : 26 June 2016 00:04:29(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
Very nice work, I have to eventually tackle a couple of boxes that way too.
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#4 Posted : 26 June 2016 04:23:23(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Excellent work! I very much enjoyed viewing the photos. Here is a related post that may provide some more info to readers: https://www.marklin-user...m366571-RS800#post366571

Paul
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by CCS800KrokHunter3
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.439 seconds.