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Offline lugacor  
#1 Posted : 21 November 2002 20:11:45(UTC)
lugacor


Joined: 21/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: ,
The only thing I think I have in common with you train gurus of this forum is that I own a Marklin train since mid-year(actually the most economic starter set) and that I am planning to enhance my basic layout with tracks, turnouts and possibly lights (I also share with Juan Carlos the fact that I am a Spaniard who lives in Madrid).

The big difference is that you all know a lot about Marklin Digital and I don't (though I am learning during the limited time I can devote to this). This why I would appreciate that some of you could perhaps take some time to help me in the decissions I need to make before Christmas relating to the Euros I want to invest in my current humble layout.

1)Where to buy. Thanks to this webpage I have found two German shops that seem to have amazing prices, even when you add up the transportation costs, when you compare them to the prices in the two or three Marklin dealers I have visited here in Madrid. So firts question: Do you guys purchase over the net? If this is the case, Would you recommend any specific retailer?

2)Turnouts and lights. Any opinion against investing in motoring and digitalizing the turnouts? I think I have read somewhere here that it is a waste of money to digitalize turnouts when you also plan to use traffic lights (as is my case), so I would like to hear your point of view. As to the lights themselves, I have not been able to understand how they work (even in the Marklin manual that I downloaded) but it seems that if you install them properly the trains will stop when they go red. Do they need special tracks or you achieve the desired "stop/go" effect by simply the correct wiring and connections? Any manual on signals for dummies you may be aware of? Just for your information my plan is to add around 12 turnouts and 4 traffic lights.

3)All of you here seem to be mad about a device called Intellibox, which seem to include all the functions of various Marklin components at the same time (if I understand correctly, the Control Unit, the Keyboard, the 80f control and the Interface). I obviously have the Control Unit, so would you still recommend me to go for the IB? If yes, is it easy to install for newcomers to this amazing world? And what should I do with my Control unit? Can I control a third locomotive with it? Can I power one of the circuits with it? This is probably one of the biggest doubts I have.

4)Will I need an additional transformer? Any other comments you may consider of assistance?

Than you in advance for the help and my apologies for bothering many of you with probably very dumb questions.

Luis<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Offline jcegido  
#2 Posted : 21 November 2002 23:51:21(UTC)
jcegido


Joined: 11/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi Luis,
Wellcome to the Marklin-users.net my Spaniard friend, many of your doubts have been mine before. You´re in the right place to clear them and to make new friends. I´m going to try help you although there are several friends here wiser than me that undoubtly will help you more.


[1)Where to buy. Thanks to this webpage I have found two German shops that seem to have amazing prices, even when you add up the transportation costs, when you compare them to the prices in the two or three Marklin dealers I have visited here in Madrid. So firts question: Do you guys purchase over the net? If this is the case, Would you recommend any specific retailer?]


I´ve experienced purchases in Lokshop and Reimann, (also in Ebay auctions), no problem at all, all of them were formal, clean and (if possible) quick. Something you have to know is that some shops, like Lokshop, charges you shipping and insurance costs. Some others like Reimann, don´t, if you buy for more than 350€. If they have the items stocked, you´ll recieve them within 4 to 7 days with standard delivery, less time with premium delivery. A very interesting advice is that you should make some calls to Barcelona ("Gotthard Trens" for instance), you´ll be surprised by prices, they are quite good, in many cases as in Germany. Email me and I´ll give you addresses, phone numbers and contact persons.

[)Turnouts and lights. Any opinion against investing in motoring and digitalizing the turnouts? I think I have read somewhere here that it is a waste of money to digitalize turnouts when you also plan to use traffic lights (as is my case), so I would like to hear your point of view. As to the lights themselves, I have not been able to understand how they work (even in the Marklin manual that I downloaded) but it seems that if you install them properly the trains will stop when they go red. Do they need special tracks or you achieve the desired "stop/go" effect by simply the correct wiring and connections? Any manual on signals for dummies you may be aware of? Just for your information my plan is to add around 12 turnouts and 4 traffic lights.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I´m making all turnouts work digital, if you plan to buy Intellibox and use memory functions, this would help to stablish itineraies. Lights will play just the way you say with proper decoders and relays. Take a glance on "Digital corner" and "Operation related" in this site. If you´re going digital, there´s no way back, you´ll go for more, so try to make some previsions.


[All of you here seem to be mad about a device called Intellibox, which seem to include all the functions of various Marklin components at the same time (if I understand correctly, the Control Unit, the Keyboard, the 80f control and the Interface). I obviously have the Control Unit, so would you still recommend me to go for the IB? If yes, is it easy to install for newcomers to this amazing world? And what should I do with my Control unit? Can I control a third locomotive with it? Can I power one of the circuits with it? This is probably one of the biggest doubts I have.]


I´ve got one Intellibox Control Unit, that has all those features you´ve written down, but you can control many more than 3 locos at the time, up to 80 digital addresses in Märklin-Motorola format and to 9999 addresses in DCC format. I bought an Intellibox Switch too, that has Keyboard functions (more than Märklin Keyboard) and Memory functions. I´ve got a Power 3 too, that is the Intellibox booster. My layout is divided in two circuits, one fed from the Intellibox (IB) (This one has a trafo), and the other one fed by the Power 3 booster (with another trafo). Your Control Unit is fully compatible with IB, you can use it as Slave of IB, for instance. Or you may sell it in Ebay (they are easily sold)



4)Will I need an additional transformer? Any other comments you may consider of assistance?



You´ll need another trafo if you have two circuits, for the booster, I think you can use your Control Unit as booster, but I´m not sure, I´m sure many friends here will help in this. What I´m sure is that you can use a cheap Märklin Delta control as Booster (the booster replays Control unit orders, and feeds a second circuit). I´ve got two Titan Trafos, powerful, not expensive, for my layout. Kevin recomended them and it was a wise advise.

Take it easy, you´ll reach where you want in the hobby, cause there are lots of helping hands here.
PS/ Do you know "Lista de Correo de Trenes Märklin" (LCTM), email me and I´ll give you details.

Best regards, enjoy


<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Juan Carlos
Juan Carlos
Offline Thanos  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2002 00:04:25(UTC)
Thanos


Joined: 19/03/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,088
Location: Athens,
Hi Luis and welcome to the forum! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

First of all I am not a guru but just another user who came into this world quite recently - there are some people in here who really KNOW things and sometimes I can't follow them! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> In a very short period of time you will be able to understand things. It's not that difficult, at least as it appears to be, so don't worry.
Secondly, your questions are not dumb I have been there!

OK! To start with, all of your questions are answered throughout this forum where all of the topics you raised are explained. A good way would be to follow me into the forum by reading my first topic... Go to the HO-Scale and choose to see all available topics! Find the topic "Some Layout Constructing Questions" and ... voila, that's me during the early days. Start reading...

Besides that, let's give you some hints... <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

1. You are right! Buying through the internet is very cheap! 90% of my layout stuff have been bought via the web! Go to the Links &
Downloads section - you will find a lot of web shops listed there. Start by comparing prices! May favourites? www.lokshop.de and http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

2. Turnouts and lights! That is a big issue to explain right now. No opinion against,at least by me! The signal can make the train stop and especially when digital locos are concerned you can even have smooth starts and stops! Correct wiring and connections is all you need plus the required gadgets of course. For example for one signal you 'll need (on top of what you have): a MAR72441 to manage the starts and stops, a digital decoder k83 to manage the MAR72441 and a keyboard (or the use of an IB) to manage the k83 (on/off of the signal) some wire, some rail insulators to isolate the tack section where the train is going to decelerate and you will be up and running in a few minutes. For turnouts, you would first of all need an electric turnout mechanism. Also, you would need either a k83 (capable to handle four turnouts) or a MAR74460 for each turnout and then a keyboard to manage the decoders. For each of the above gadgets you can find similar products by, for example, Viessmann or Uhlenbrock.
Anyway, I will not bombard you with more information right now! Go to the Digital Corner and start reading... <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

3. The IB is an alternative device that combines all separate boxes sold by Marklin into one single box. Everything is available for purchase but first of all you have to see what you need, size your layout and understand what these little gadgets do. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

4. An additional transformer maybe needed for many reasons (a lot of trains, too many lights, in other words power consumption). Don't bother with this yet. <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Whatever you need we will be glad to help. What I can suggest right now? Start reading the articles posted in this site and go into the digital world of model railroading step by step! However, if on the other hand you want to buy stuff as soon as possible, then give us an outline of what you want to do and we will be glad to help. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Best regards,

Thanos

PS! When I started writing these lines the topic had no responses! When I posted the topic Juan Carlos' answer was already there - you've beat me my Spaniard friend! <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
Thanos



Offline Lars Westerlind  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2002 00:46:11(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hi,
just a few additon from me:
2. Turnouts. Of course they should be electrified, but digital? IMHO it depends. Digital means far less cabling problems, and certainly makes life easier for temporary layouts. And, is a must at least partially, if you want computer control, memory operation etc. But for me, it's not half as important as digitalization of the locos. I mix the two things.
2. About train control. The tradional way, is to have an isolated section of track between the signal (the mid rail is isolated from the rest of the layout, a cable feeds it coming from the signal, which in turns get power from the trafo. When the signal is green, power flows through the signal to the track etc. With C track (I guess you have that), you should buy isolators (small red plastic hoods) and cable shoes to connect a cable to the track. Soldering is possible instead, but you need no special track.

However, this cuts the power, which is OK for an analogues and a delta loco, but not enough to my liking. I like smooth decelleration, and keeping lights and sound on... which makes it all much more complicated. I don't think you should bother if you are a 'starter', but there are articles on this site about this.

Regards,
Lars

Offline Bart  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2002 07:43:07(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Hi Luis, and wellcome to the forum!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I obviously have the Control Unit, so would you still recommend me to go for the IB?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=1 id=quote>
Just for clarity: Are you sure you have a Control Unit? With your starter set, you probably got the transformer (the white box labeled "transformer 32VA") or maybe a plain white & black transformer plus a Delta control, marked "Delta"?
Those are not the digital "Control Unit" (the box with a dial and approximately 20 small buttons).

Anyway, you have made an excellent choice!
Either the simple transformer or the Delta set are the best ways to start exploring and expanding your railroad.
When upgrading to digital some time later, you can keep and use all those boxes, so there is no waste of money.

But don't be in a hurry; When you browse through this forum, you'll learn that many of us enjoy analog (non-digital) operation, and you may like operating many trains and a big layout before converting to digital.

The real Märklin digital "Control Unit" is expensive, and that's why you hear us recommend the Intellibox (IB) for digital operation. The good news is that the IB really intergrates with the Märklin stuff, so there's no need for a final decision right now.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

*Bart
Offline lugacor  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2002 08:52:11(UTC)
lugacor


Joined: 21/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: ,
Thank you all, guys!!!!I am really overwhelmed by the quick and thorough comments. I think I have some homework for this weekend (BTW, Lars, I started with the digital starter set, so I definitely have already the 6021 unit)

Juan Carlos, you don't have a problem then if I directly contact you by e-mail?

Regards and thanks again,

Luis

Offline jcegido  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2002 15:33:08(UTC)
jcegido


Joined: 11/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi Luis, all,
No problem at all, you´ll be wellcome.

Juan Carlos
Juan Carlos
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