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Offline Alsterstreek  
#151 Posted : 24 April 2017 12:41:52(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Same operational effect strictly at water level with less ramp building and shortened outer loop = 12 m and inner loop = 5 m (ignoring future station trackage, respectively).
cz2017rev6artist.png
Serving suggestion:
blrr2017rrflg.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#152 Posted : 27 April 2017 13:11:44(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Adding some interest with the help of a mine next to the lower main line plus a high line coming from the "off"?
2017-04-27_12-05-03.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#153 Posted : 27 April 2017 13:41:08(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
For reference: Former DRGW Eagle River line south of Belden.
Rocky_Mountain_Views_-_Eagle_River_Canyon.jpg
Belden mine siding just next to the DRGW main line track.
2007-008-0401.jpeg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#154 Posted : 27 April 2017 15:20:24(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
In case somebody wondered what the station could look like: Just an initial sketch...

The idea of combining two „mattress-size“ foam board-base modules for the ease of transport, tracks to connect both modules in a confined area at one end for the ease of separation. One board is to represent a canyon scene, loosely inspired by the former DRGW Eagle River line south of Belden. For the board on the other side of a central divider I envisage a stacked terminal railroad, a parking space, stuffed with rolling stock. Return blobs = 4 m long = EMD F7 ABBA + 16 tin plate 50 feeters (or 20 plastic 40 feeters) + caboose.

Then, there are two separate racetracks (thus each river bank served by another line). Matching tunnel portals are marked with letters. Red letters indicate the first circuit and violet letters indicate the second one. The only ramp is (partially) hidden under the elevated town; the double-track ramp allows for train meets. Lower level stub tracks extending under the town and elevated passenger station are meant for freight cars. Stub tracks on the upper level are meant for passenger trains. Trackage in the lower left hand corner is for displaying large motive power.

So flat, good, square fun.

cz2017comb1artist.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#155 Posted : 12 May 2017 16:55:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
Forum member BrandonVA made me think: Why note evolve on an existing "successful" design? So, working from my L-shaped layout "Badland", I came up with improvements.

1. Convert mainline from double to single track, which:
- is more prototypical for US railroads;
- makes the line look longer;
- leaves more room for landscaping.

2. Fill the access bay with a Styrofoam hill, allowing to lay new rails on track level 4 to create a long siding for train meets (currently happening on the double track section).

to shift train meets which took place on the former double track section.

2017-05-10_10-48-01.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#156 Posted : 12 May 2017 17:08:18(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
Then, by altering the track level 0 the following goals are achieved

- two trains running on two separate circuits (red and green);
- two tracks separated by a river.

2017-05-11_13-00-13.png

Considering that higher track levels are overlaying the lowest one, the visible parts of track level 0 would be as follows.

2017-05-11_14-08-25v1.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#157 Posted : 12 May 2017 17:15:04(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Rotating the last sketch allows for comparison with a historic photo of the former Belden mine siding on the - now dormant - Tennessee Pass main line in Colorado.
2017-05-12_16-10-51.jpg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#158 Posted : 25 July 2017 15:30:35(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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cartoon.jpg
July 1956 issue of MODEL TRAINS. The cartoonist is R.O. Gilbert
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#159 Posted : 27 July 2017 23:50:11(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
As I have to live up to my reputation, I dreamt up another ultimate layout condensation - see snapshots. Max. size 4 x 8 ft. The evolution:
2017-07-26_16-53-03.png
1. The starting point is - what else - a dogbone. To save space - what else - the station area is placed inside one of the reversing loops. When having both loops visually separated and throwing the station loop turnout alternatively into either direction, and when viewing only the station loop area, the illusion is created that a train leaves the station to X-town and returns from X-town after some time, before leaving to Y-town before later returning from Y-town. In a similar manner, the same illusion would be created for the stationless mainline loop behind a scenic divider.
2. How to cope with long trains on a limited station surface? Coiling. On a helix.
3.Then condense the entire contraption by folding and twisting.

Finetuning:
2017-07-26_18-03-11.png
Conceal the station helix (or helix station), display an intimidating station throat and have station tracks disappear in the scenic divider under a faux station façade and/or road bridge in front of a city backdrop (has been done before, I was told). Wham, that's whimsical model railroading. Full roundtrip form would be 20 m.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#160 Posted : 29 July 2017 15:31:26(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
Note to myself on basic functionality of above design.

When having a dogbone with reversing loops, the latter need to be concealed for the sake of plausibility. This is eating precious space. The idea is to adapt a dogbone for making it socially acceptable to leave one or even both reversing loops in the open. A station would be sitting in the loop area instead of being located in between the loops and would still see a train departing into one direction and see the same train returning from the same direction. Both large and small layouts could benefit from this approach. Sprung turnouts allow for "mechanic automation".
2017dbl1loop-mania.png
Prototypical train running appearance to be reached by either concealing one blob and the hidden blob taking over shadow station duties...
2017dbl2loop-mania.png
... or having a "solid" view block separating both blobs.
2017dbl3loop-mania.png
Blobs do *not* need to be equally sized. One blob could have a train-lenght size and the other one could fill a room with book shelf right of way running along the walls. Alternatively, blobs could be stacked, twisted and folded. The "Hosentraeger"double crossover could be placed in a curve etc.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#161 Posted : 09 September 2017 14:15:45(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Pragmatism might be needed to make ends meet when space is limited.
2017loopmania1a.png2017loopmania1b.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#162 Posted : 09 September 2017 14:22:33(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
E.g., for a study like this one on 100 x 200 cm:
100x200rgmalennachzahlen1.png
Has it been tested? Yes, sort of:
2017hsb1test1.jpg
:o)
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#163 Posted : 30 September 2017 14:58:28(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
Trying to combine my beloved complicated station throats with a separate landscape by combining two modules is too space consuming for my taste. So I was thinking of stacking the two modules, dreaming up the 100 x 200 cm "Train-Room Mush-Room". A basement with a visible station throat and concealed coiling area for long trains crowned by an attic with a landscaped section.
train-room2017mush-room.jpg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#164 Posted : 30 September 2017 15:08:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
For the landscaped attic, I envisage to elaborate on an earlier design to make it fit on 100 x 200 cm.
cz2017rev5artist.png
A quick mock-up demonstrates the feasibility on 100 x 200 cm. Flat:
2017attic0mockup.jpg
Elevated:
2017attic1mockup.jpg
All curves with easements. Upper return blob not included yet.

Edited by user 24 May 2018 12:06:08(UTC)  | Reason: typo

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#165 Posted : 01 October 2017 01:07:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
First train-room mush-room basement attempts, starting with an oval helix with sidings coiled around the latter. Mind you that eventually only the outer two sidings shall be visible, while the "distribution clockwork" inside is concealed in the support structure on which the landscaped "attic" is supposed to rest.
IMG_9326.jpgIMG_9327.jpg

Then a trial incorporating the inverted return loop concept presented here:
https://www.marklin-user...d-innovations#post537826
inv2017loop1no.jpeginv2017loop2no.jpeg
The inverted return loop looks quite pleasant, but the overall result does not convince me. The curved turnouts behind the overpass are difficult to reach. Furthermore, the trackage looks not "fluid" enough.

Both trials deliver toy-like results, and styrofoam characteristics do nor allow for a connection to the attic. In addition, inner "distribution clockwork" turnouts are hard to reach. And most prominently, my minimum siding storage capacity requirement of a EMD F7 ABBA + 16 tin plate box cars (50 ft) + 1 caboose is not met: The inner siding capacity is one box car short, respectively.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#166 Posted : 01 October 2017 01:20:35(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
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Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
Today the breakthrough, a more sophisticated looking solution. I present Huevo depot, where Fanta Se and Grande lines merge to form the joint line to D’enfer (founded by French colonists), which is represented by the double track return blob (in the future mostly concealed). ATSF interchange to La Quinta is represented by the stub for the Mini Chief train, of course cutting recklessly through Grande tracks. The ascending line leads to Tennessee Williams Pass. The ceiling - 20 cm - of the underworld is ca. 1 cm below the loose end of high line. The styrofoam-soaked images cannot properly replicate the awesomeness of the appearance, but it is really looking good.
:o)
IMG_9397.jpgIMG_9402.jpgIMG_9407.jpg
Oh yes, another test passed: Even the shorter inner blob track is holding the obligatory ABBA + 16 box cars (50 ft) + caboose.

Track plan.
mush1room.png
Red = ascent to the upper world. Stub tracks still subject to change without prior notice. According to the track planner, there are considerable gaps, which I did not „feel“ when plugging together the ensemble. Further, according to the plan, dimensions are 101 x 211 cm, while I squeezed it effortlessly on a 100 x 200 cm surface.

Edited by user 12 July 2018 11:57:23(UTC)  | Reason: typo

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#167 Posted : 02 October 2017 08:56:58(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
Train-room mush-room basement mock-up.
IMG_9412.jpg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#168 Posted : 20 October 2017 15:04:39(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
Further to post 122.
shocky2017mountains-a.png
163 x 163 cm (access bay 65 x 65 cm). Out and back operations - at least twice around - with train meet in between. Ruling grade 4.3%.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#169 Posted : 20 October 2017 21:06:52(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
A forum member enquired if the design could be adapted to accommodate a Big Boy on a Walthers 130´(47 cm) turntable. I believe so.
shocky2017mountains-45-6a.png
Siding length extended and stub terminal replaced by a concealed double track return blob. Still on 163 x 163 cm, but the access bay shrunk to 60 x 60 cm.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#170 Posted : 05 November 2017 15:47:04(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
Another way to conceal a dogbone end loop:
modellbahn-impression42.jpgmodellbahn-wendlingen-bw2.jpg
http://www.edalon.net/mo...ellbahn-kehrschleife.htm
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#171 Posted : 05 November 2017 16:02:15(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
No circles or ovals involved here, but the mainline disappearing behind the tunnel portals could be curved. In addition, the first pair of crossovers to the right could be replaced by curved turnouts "swinging up left", thereby further reducing space requirements. Or the mainline could be connected to the reverse loop module like the one presented in the previous post, which would allow for turning and storing steam locomotives.
Fermodel2minories.png
This is a C track interpretation of the classic Minories concept by the late C. J. Freezer which was first published in 1957. The plan allows to model vibrant urban passenger (and express goods) traffic without requiring a great deal of space. Trains are hauled in by one locomotive that would then be uncoupled and remain caught until a fresh locomotive - having waited in the loco pocket - hauls away in the opposite direction. What I admire is how S-curves are avoided, thus ensuring nice swinging coach movements.
https://en.wikipedia.org...Minories_(model_railway)
Minories - close up.jpg
Note: folded in half lengthwise using a removable girder road bridge to hide the hinges.
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Offline baggio  
#172 Posted : 05 November 2017 17:27:37(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,658
Location: Toronto
Hi, Al:

Very interesting topic and pictures. ThumpUp

Could explain what the yellow bars in post 170 do?

Thanks.

Silvano
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#173 Posted : 05 November 2017 18:07:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Could explain what the yellow bars in post 170 do?
The author doesn´t say, but looking at a later blog photo (see attached), it seems as if they were placed in preparation of "filling" the tracks.
modellbahn-wendlingen-bw3.jpg
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Offline hvc  
#174 Posted : 06 November 2017 10:23:48(UTC)
hvc

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Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Today the breakthrough,
IMG_9402.jpg


Alsterstreek, this is awesome. Love your work.ThumpUp
- Herman
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#175 Posted : 07 November 2017 14:26:41(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Today the breakthrough
Alsterstreek, this is awesome. Love your work.ThumpUp

Thank you.

The urban planning committee has decided to press forward with the project, which has been baptized "Hi-Land". Further progress to be reported under:
https://www.marklin-user...d-and-Hi-Land#post554814
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#176 Posted : 25 November 2017 12:10:40(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
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Location: westernmost
Eric Miller´s circular GPM&C Ry in H0 scale.
GPM&C Railway Plan.jpg
Track plan
GPM&C Railway mock up.jpg
Mock-ups
GPM&C Railway mock2up.jpg

http://cs.trains.com/mrr...8631/2177191.aspx?page=5
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#177 Posted : 11 May 2018 15:04:57(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Another modeler, another scale, another idea.



http://www.enndingen.de/Bahnalitaeten
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#178 Posted : 15 May 2018 12:44:57(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Browsing through the gent's website I tried to understand the intricate N-scale track plan, which is a combination of dog bone courses.

ennderennsbruck2012.jpg
http://www.enndingen.de/.../ennderennsbruck2012.jpg

The circles on the lower right hand side represent a triple helix. There seems to be a shadow station (covered by a visible station area?) connected to the lines pointing into the void....
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#179 Posted : 29 May 2018 12:45:23(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Another jewel - Canadian Canyons - short video :

http://mrr.trains.com/la...adian-canyons-in-n-scale

track plan n scale canadian canyons 2018.jpg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#180 Posted : 28 June 2018 13:50:06(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Redux of the above on 2x7 ft door.



http://cprailmmsub.blogs...hompson%20River%20Canyon
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#181 Posted : 14 October 2018 21:19:22(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
Fiddletown-and-Copperopolis_Logo.jpg
by Carl Robert Fallberg
Map2.jpg
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#182 Posted : 14 October 2018 22:02:04(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
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Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post

Map2.jpg


You will use a lot of curved tracks with that one Alsterstreek Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#183 Posted : 06 December 2018 12:45:32(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Location: westernmost
Another contender to be considered in my view. Jim Griffin´s H0 scale DRGW La Plata Division layout:
http://www.actionroad.ne...Division/LPD-Concept.htm

TrackplanNewRGLPD.jpeg

And he even mirrors the actual Colorado Front Range situation.
FrontRange_1.jpg

His concept of choosing an era to operate by running valid rolling stock for that period is quite interesting. Let alone his El Cheapo but artsy approach in regards to trackage, layout construction plus the semi-shelf out-and-back nolix-helix mix.
187_Vasquez-2.jpegMoffatTunnel.jpeg5771Special-Cliff.jpeg1986.jpegServiceTracks1994.jpeg
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#184 Posted : 06 December 2018 16:00:05(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,817
Location: NY, NY
I too am a big believer in building a layout where the era can be dictated by the rolling stock, not the rest of the layout. And with european locales it really isn't that difficult Some issues in cities, but thats about it. Of course it all depends how much you plan on superdetailing your layout. Since my other love is cars, I have no problem swapping out the 1/87 vehicles as well :)
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#185 Posted : 21 March 2019 18:07:17(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
The simple life?
nrh8Oi9.jpg
Single level, confusing crossings, multiple trains, limited space.
a65Mx0G.jpg
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32611
Capture%20Trent.png
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#186 Posted : 21 March 2019 18:15:34(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,442
Location: westernmost
Multi-level, running three trains simultaneously.
2019-03-21_15-56-21.png
1229d9c7e6925df1a89064976afc5965.jpg
http://www.modelscenerya...el-railroad-track-plans/
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#187 Posted : 13 May 2019 16:52:31(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: westernmost
I'd like to cross-reference my below 2015 post here, since it was sitting in a dead thread while well fitting into the concept of ovals and circles.
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sedgar2 Go to Quoted Post
What are people using as an acceptable grade, that keeprealism and keeps a loaded power unit from spinning wheels.

Well, depends, as everything in life. As Ray pointed out up to 5% operations run well. Curved ramps cause more friction than straight ones, S-curves are worse than continuous curves. Another factor is train length (and consequently weight to be pulled). Then, a train moving over a 5% grade looks more acceptable than one sitting on one. My experience is that 3% is the minimum for aesthetics; and with 3% there are no limits when it comes to climbing ability.

Caveat: I experienced derailing on a (tunneled) 3% grade on a tight R1 radius stretch for heavy tin plate goods trains with more than 100 axles or passenger trains more than 8 coaches only.

;o)

Originally Posted by: sedgar2 Go to Quoted Post
What are the procedured to keep the tracks from separating?

C-track: none.


Originally Posted by: sedgar2 Go to Quoted Post
Any photos?

See below. Various C-track set-ups, all ramps curved, radius used in green fonts, grade in red fonts.

2015grade2-3.png2015grade3.png2015grade4.png2015grade5.png2015grade5-3.png
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