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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#1 Posted : 25 July 2013 15:21:04(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Hi,

Since this week I've got to look and play with my trains I have another question for the people who do it more regularly.

I have bought recently a couple of trains where the owner was overly enthusiastic about oiling and sometimes spraying wd40. Is there anyway to get rid of it without having to dismantle the whole thing apart? What about those ultrasound cleaners are they suitable for this?

thanks!
Alex
Offline Davy  
#2 Posted : 25 July 2013 17:12:50(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
No and ultra sound destroys more then its benefit.
M-track with a CS2.
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 25 July 2013 17:53:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,735
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Alex,

I use a spray wash intended for eletronic equipment. You can get it from any electronics shop. Just spray liberally in all the nooks and crannies and the old oil washes off.

For the maximum benefit, though, I prefer to open up the motor and give the commutator and brush plate a good clean.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 25 July 2013 17:55:30(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,735
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
By the way, WD40 doesn't do as much harm as the recommended oil, as it tends to evaporate away and only leaves a very light residue. The thicker oil gets mixed up with the sooty deposits from the carbon brushes making a paste that gums everything up. If the loco is very badly jammed I might give it a good spray with WD40 first, and then wash that off with sparay cleaner.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Yumgui  
#5 Posted : 25 July 2013 20:05:16(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Paris, France
Alex,

My two cents: No quick fixes (lol @ spray the loco with some magic fluid and poof, it works ... nah) ... take 'em apart (WD40 is good only for loosening rusty parts), brush all parts down with lighter fluid, then reassemble, spray with electronic cleaner on electrical connections only and oil carefully with Labelle 108 only where needed ...

... at least you can sleep at night knowing exactly what's up with each machine !

Yum Cool
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Danlake  
#6 Posted : 25 July 2013 20:58:36(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,533
Just a worth of cautions - I have managed to destroy 2 sets of gears on locomotives by using plastic safe electrical contact cleaner.

It's extremely efficient to clean the gear and motor block, but it makes everything bone dry and the quick evaporation makes all the gear briefly very cold. I suspect this does some damage, because despite some oiling or grease I cannot get the gears to run without a terrible squeaking noiseCrying

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Webmaster  
#7 Posted : 25 July 2013 22:47:57(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,065
Well... When I have had such issues, I have dismantled the loco & motor and washed the non electrical parts with plain dishwasher liquid or "Ajax" with a proper rinse with lukewarm water afterwards... Of course proper drying with eg a hair-dryer or empty airbrush power afterwards is mandatory.

Once tried to soak a chassis in alcohol, but that dissolved the red paint on the steam loco chassis & wheels so they got pink instead... Scared
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#8 Posted : 26 July 2013 03:52:37(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
I don't mind taking apart the brush plate and cleaning around there but when is all around the gears it seems like a nightmare to clean, I can never get it off. I can't think of the idea of dismantling everything.
The WD40 does evaporate but always seem to leave something behind so still worries me. It also worries me when there are plastic gears around or old plastic traction tyres. I wonder whether the wd40 may cause damage to the plastic. I also thought in dipping them in petrol (without electrics and leaving them there for a couple of minutes, I am not sure whether that will leave residues as well. My main problem is around wheels and gears. The labelle spray I never heard of it might not be available in Australia but i'll have a look later. I have a couple of electronics contact cleaners but did not help much.
Offline foumaro  
#9 Posted : 26 July 2013 05:20:35(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,291
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Be careful with the plastic parts of the loco when you use WD-40.I damage the plastic light bodyof the loco.It becames misty and not working,so i have to find another one to solve the problem.
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 26 July 2013 08:07:31(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,735
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
In my experience WD40 is quite benign compared to many solvents which are much more aggressive against plastics and paint. Of course, you must remove the plastic body and only spray the metal chassis to minimise collateral damage. The nylon gears used on locos should not be affected by WD40.

Alex, you haven't mentioned which locos you have the problem with. Perhaps if you are more specific we can help you better.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#11 Posted : 26 July 2013 12:40:05(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
In my experience WD40 is quite benign compared to many solvents which are much more aggressive against plastics and paint. Of course, you must remove the plastic body and only spray the metal chassis to minimise collateral damage. The nylon gears used on locos should not be affected by WD40.

Alex, you haven't mentioned which locos you have the problem with. Perhaps if you are more specific we can help you better.


Ha!!! It is not so easy because there are several with that problem. It was more a general question for when I have the right state of mind to do it. However I can tell you of two I have right now on my table with the problem a 3014 and a 3047 last one is not so bad but has lots of wd40 that makes it shinny and sticky an every time I touch it I seem to spread it over the body. I'll be happy to clean them now if there is a quick way. I would really like some spray degreaser -like mentioned in prior posts- as long as it doesn't have any secondary effects.

But if there is no easy way they'll have to wait a few weeks. I am concentrating now in fixing/restoring a very early crocodile and I don't want to end up opening a lot of locos during this week otherwise none will be done. If interested I have a thread going on about that crocodile in the collectors corner
Offline biedmatt  
#12 Posted : 26 July 2013 13:33:34(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I usually dip them in paint thinner for a few seconds and then blow them off with compressed air.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#13 Posted : 26 July 2013 14:05:52(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
I usually dip them in paint thinner for a few seconds and then blow them off with compressed air.


I think I might try that on a model without plastic bits and see. Thanks
Offline biedmatt  
#14 Posted : 26 July 2013 14:26:00(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Nylon gears should be okay for a short dunk. Paint doesn't affect them so the thinner is good for a short time. I do not let them soak though unless there isn't any plastic.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#15 Posted : 26 July 2013 14:41:38(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Nylon gears should be okay for a short dunk. Paint doesn't affect them so the thinner is good for a short time. I do not let them soak though unless there isn't any plastic.


Yes that's one of my worries because some of the ones I need to clean have the old style plastic tyres on the wheels. I am not too keen on exposing the nylon gears either but I imagine is not big deal. The plastic tyres are specially important because I can't replace them that I know.
Offline Chook  
#16 Posted : 27 July 2013 06:11:16(UTC)
Chook

Australia   
Joined: 15/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
I personally would not use paint acrylic thinners on my models.
I think that is using a "sledgehammer to crack a nut".

Methylated spirits and a paint brush would be my limit. The metho won't upset any coil windings or electronics either.

Regards........Chook.
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Offline intruder  
#17 Posted : 28 July 2013 00:58:38(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Webmaster wrote:
Well... When I have had such issues, I have dismantled the loco & motor and washed the non electrical parts with plain dishwasher liquid or "Ajax" with a proper rinse with lukewarm water afterwards... Of course proper drying with eg a hair-dryer or empty airbrush power afterwards is mandatory.


I also use this methode, including an old toothbtush. It Works Perfect, after adding very small amounts of oil to the gears and Axels.
I use the Märklin oil (Do not remember the article number).

Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#18 Posted : 28 July 2013 01:19:01(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Chook, I don't think anyone had plans for cleaning any of the electrical or electronics with paint thinner.
Offline cookee_nz  
#19 Posted : 28 July 2013 03:16:03(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,572
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Davy Go to Quoted Post
No and ultra sound destroys more then its benefit.


What is the issue with Ultra-Sonic cleaning? I have a small personal unit for about 10 years and have used it for cleaning many items including Faller Slotcar chassis, and Marklin motor parts - never had any problem.

Have you had a different experience?

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 28 July 2013 08:42:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,937
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
What is the issue with Ultra-Sonic cleaning?
It can turn small paint damages into big paint damages.
It seems that most locos won't get damaged.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Chook  
#21 Posted : 28 July 2013 13:44:52(UTC)
Chook

Australia   
Joined: 15/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Perth, Western Australia.
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
Chook, I don't think anyone had plans for cleaning any of the electrical or electronics with paint thinner.


When cleaning things with tooth brushes it is usual for the liquid to flick everywhere no matter how careful I am. Metho is just safer in this regard.

REgards......Chook.
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H0
Offline kbvrod  
#22 Posted : 28 July 2013 17:06:48(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Isopropyl alcohol
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Offline Janne75  
#23 Posted : 28 July 2013 19:51:19(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi Alex, all,

I have bought some of my second hand locos from Finland. One seller was over oiling his locos with WD40 or at least it smelt like it. Locos rubber traction tyres get very loose from oil and I had to replace all of them... Cursing

Best way is to take motor off and clean everything. I don't ever use anything else than paper and cotton sticks (normally used to cleaning ears etc.). When motor is off it is quite easy to wipe excessive oil (WD40) off from the sides of gears etc. There is not so many parts in these locos. I never take any pressed axles or gears off from my locos and have used this "method" succesfully.

PS. It is interesting to read your Crocodile project. You are making good casting parts.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#24 Posted : 29 July 2013 15:42:49(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Alex, all,

I have bought some of my second hand locos from Finland. One seller was over oiling his locos with WD40 or at least it smelt like it. Locos rubber traction tyres get very loose from oil and I had to replace all of them... Cursing

Best way is to take motor off and clean everything. I don't ever use anything else than paper and cotton sticks (normally used to cleaning ears etc.). When motor is off it is quite easy to wipe excessive oil (WD40) off from the sides of gears etc. There is not so many parts in these locos. I never take any pressed axles or gears off from my locos and have used this "method" succesfully.

PS. It is interesting to read your Crocodile project. You are making good casting parts.

Regards,
Janne


I am not surprised the WD is affecting the rubber, I use the cotton sticks too. In this particular case they are not enough. Luckily the 3047 since it's been sitting for a few days on my table while I admire it seems to be drying out and there is very little wd40 left although still looks glossier in the areas that was sprayed on.

Yes, there is plenty going on in the background with those parts for the crocodile. I 've been doing several things, made some mistakes but I am learning a lot. I'll be buying some machinery very soon to be able to do a more accurate job. By the time I finish I don't know whether the part would be any good but it would have cost me what one of those crocs in excellent condition would costLOL but I am hopping all my new skills and equipment will allow me to do other projects in future. Thank you for the comment.

Tom, the paint damage is a very good point which I did not consider but I suppose it will only affect the locos that already show bad signs of paint flicking off.

Thank you everyone for your input and if you have any other ideas keep them coming, everything is useful!
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Offline abisel  
#25 Posted : 30 July 2013 15:02:36(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
I am surprised no one has mentioned the use of automotive brake clean spray. It works great to blast away years of grime and leaves behind nothing. Just spray the area and follow up with blasts of air from your compressor until dry. Spin the gears/wheels and repeat as necessary. It will not attack paint, plastic, or rubber. I have not had any issues using the brake clean on my 3048. Once the gears/axles are cleaned, apply only two or three drops of the proper oil, run the engine for a few minutes and reapply another drop or two to the gears/axles. Then wipe up all excess.

WD40 was originally designed as a Water Displacement lubricant for use on missiles to combat corrosion. Although it has many uses such as a penetrating oil for rusty parts, it will attack all petroleum based products such as plastic, rubber and wiring insulation. Once the propellant dries, it leaves behind an oil film. Don't use it.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#26 Posted : 30 July 2013 15:11:35(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
I am surprised no one has mentioned the use of automotive brake clean spray. It works great to blast away years of grime and leaves behind nothing. Just spray the area and follow up with blasts of air from your compressor until dry. Spin the gears/wheels and repeat as necessary. It will not attack paint, plastic, or rubber. I have not had any issues using the brake clean on my 3048. Once the gears/axles are cleaned, apply only two or three drops of the proper oil, run the engine for a few minutes and reapply another drop or two to the gears/axles. Then wipe up all excess.



I agree brakeclean will work, just keep in mind to use it in a well ventilated area - it is potent stuff. :)

-Brandon
Offline Mark5  
#27 Posted : 31 July 2013 20:31:53(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Here is a tip from a painter...
Forget about using an old toothbrush flicking around solvent.... Confused

Most art supply stores will have hog's hair brushes Love from China for a couple of bucks... rather cheap.
Hog's hair is a very strong bristle and will clean with thinner or iso or whatever other "poison" you feel is best, but the point is brushes of various sizes can be cut down and made to fit any corner or cranny. Keep in mind it must be hog's hair... because, other acrylic or plastic brushes will just dissolve slowly with aggressive solvents. Its a very stiff bristle, and not the soft brushes you might know from your model/hobby shop.
Note that Hog's hair will not leave hair or lint behind like cotton from Q-tips. Mind you, a lint-free rag may be need to wipe solvent/oil/grime.

I might add, (off-topic) hog's hair brushes are great for weathering brick and roofs on your Faller/Vollmer/Heljan models... especially if your painting the mortar in between the bricks. Acrylic paints work great for this, as they can be easily wiped or dabbed off the surface, leaving the paint behind in the grooves. I use brunt umber, I feel black is too strong and overbearing. Will have to post some of our beauties one day!

BTW ... great thread!! I have to clean several locos!! Mellow

- Mark


Originally Posted by: Chook Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
Chook, I don't think anyone had plans for cleaning any of the electrical or electronics with paint thinner.


When cleaning things with tooth brushes it is usual for the liquid to flick everywhere no matter how careful I am. Metho is just safer in this regard.

REgards......Chook.
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
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Offline kbvrod  
#28 Posted : 31 July 2013 22:03:27(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
White vinegar.
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Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#29 Posted : 03 August 2013 22:50:42(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
A little update on this is due. Yesterday I just couldn't take the greasy smelly locos anymore. I've took two for sacrifice in the name of knowledge. One a 3048 which wasn't perfect but not too bad and should have probably been spared. The other one a 3005 in terrible condition and much more up to the task.

First one was the 3048 immersed in a methylated spirits bath, other than the brush holder, lamp and a couple of cables all electrics were removed.
After a couple of minutes it was lightly brushed and dried out. My results: it was cleaned but still some of the oil and possibly wd40 linger in some crevices.
There was a light white staining residue left on the black areas of the chassis which later on was cleaned by using some car polish and that ended up looking quite neat. The main problem was that it did affect the red paint of the wheels and the rods. It made it go a bit lighter in colour in some place it started to come off.

Since I wasn't convinced about that the 3005 was bathed in turpentine instead in this one the wheels were removed as well, the rest was the same as the 3048. Results: the turpentine turned dark almost immediately and the loco was cleaned by far more effectively. It has also softened the red paint of the wheels and the rods. However it didn't cause as much damage to the red paint as the metho produced on the 3048.

It was interesting to see the effect the turps caused on the toothbrush used for cleaning LOL which made check immediately the brush cover, 2 nylon gears and the few cables left. To my surprise none of them were affected but the toothbrush is a very good warning for removing all plastics. This method didn't leave stains behind.

My conclusion: while I am not disappointed because the two engines were not presentable the way they were. I will only repeat this on locos that have serious problems or that I am considering to refurbish quite extensively. No good engines should be put through this. After this I am more keen to try the ultrasound method.

Just a brushing with hog hair or plain plastic wouldn't have done. There was oil in the brushes cavities, in between the contact plate and the sky pick up and everywhere else you can or can't imagine. Below you'll find a couple of photos of the 3048 with the stains and after the car polish you can partially see one of the wheels and some of the damage. If I repeat this I'll go directly for the turpentine because it caused nowhere near as much paint damage and it was a much better cleaner.
Iamnotthecrazyone attached the following image(s):
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