Lima NSB 2-rail analog DC? electric loco and Märklin analog catenary

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Lima NSB 2-rail analog DC? electric loco and Märklin analog catenary

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Janne75		#1 Posted : 21 June 2013 17:07:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,550 Location: Finland		Hello, I just tried to power this analog 2-rail Lima NSB electric loco from analog AC Märklin catenary. This motor is DC one if I have understood right? I just thought that I will get it going, but no success... Only smoke from powered pantograph! As I don't understand anything about these Lima 2-rail locos this is not a surprise. I wired first other motor terminal with a wire and connected other end of that wire to upper part of the pantograph. Upper part is metal and lower part is plastic. I did not have a clue which motor terminal is + and which is - I just wired first the left one. Results = nothing else happened than slight smoke between pantograph and catenary. Then I tried to connect the right side motor terminal and there was some noises from motor, but it did not run... And smoke was coming again between pantograph and catenary. The power was supplied only for a couple of seconds so I think that nothing was damaged. Are these "results" caused because of analog DC motor supplied with analog AC current? Is the only way to get it running to install a digital decoder suitable for DC motors and install a slider (pick-up shoe) under it? I would like to power this one from analog AC catenary and not install a slider under it, so if someone knows how to do it please let me know. Thanks in advance! PS. I'm sorry that this topic has Lima loco and not Märklin as this is Märklin forum... Best regards, Janne
		Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.


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rbw993		#2 Posted : 21 June 2013 18:00:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Janne, Sounds like you might have created a dead short on the first attempt. You must make sure that the motor is fully isolated electrically from the frame. And no you can't run a DC motor off analogue AC current. You will need either a decoder or a bridge rectifier for the motor. Problem with a the bridge rectifier is that the loco will only run in one direction. Roger
		Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.

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H0		#3 Posted : 21 June 2013 18:40:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,441 Location: DE-NW		Hi! With a suitable decoder (for DC motors with support for analogue AC operation), you can run the loco from the catenary. AC fed to a DC motor causes the motor to change direction 100 or 120 times a second with the changes of polarity. This way you can get noise and smoke, but no smooth running.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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mike c		#4 Posted : 21 June 2013 20:02:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,224 Location: Montreal, QC		I at first glance thought you intended to power the Maerklin catenary with DC power. This would be the easiest solution. You can power your Maerklin AC loks from the rails and power the DC electrics from the catenary. I do fear that you may have burned out your locomotive by powering it using an AC transformer. I would recommend you check the wires and test it using a DC transformer to make sure it is still working. Regards Mike C


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Janne75		#5 Posted : 21 June 2013 22:12:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,550 Location: Finland		Hi, What decoder do you recommend for this kind of loco? Is there some decoder that works without need to do changes to this DC motor? No, I want to power my analog AC electric locos from the catenary and also this DC motored NSB Lima loco. I want to get Digital signals with more reliable route = tracks. I don't need to be able to run any analog steam or diesel locos at my C-track Digital layout, but it is interesting to have AC powered analog catenary to supply power to analog electric AC locos. My turnout Digital decoders are connected to tracks also and my CS2 is feeding current to locos and turnout motors/lanterns. Then 6647 analog AC transformer supplies power to the catenary. I have a separate 6002 trafo for layout lights. Then a different transformer for Märklin my World series signals. These signals are not connected to track power as the red wires are not connected. They are only for looks and I run my trains according to these signals manually. Lima NSB pantograph is maybe not the best type to use with Märklin catenary as they are narrower than Märklin pantographs. It looks like that they could be run off the catenary wires if catenary wires are not very well alligned. What is the right position to hang catenary wires to the masts horisontally? Or is the slight movement of wires required or should they be attached tightly to the mast arms? I'm sorry for these stupid questions, but I'm a newbie with catenary. I think that when there is a full mainline route with catenary then it is more "tight" and at the moment when there is only a few masts and wires test section it is more "loose" wires as the ends are still open. I'm sorry for my bad English, but I hope that you will understand what I meant in this text... Cheers, Janne
		Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.


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H0		#6 Posted : 21 June 2013 22:20:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,441 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Janne75 Is there some decoder that works without need to do changes to this DC motor? I don't have any Lima locos. Changes to the motor are not required. But if the motor draws a huge current you will need a decoder that is strong enough (this is a problem with some older Roco models). If you take a decoder with overload protection, no damage should occur if motor current is too high for the decoder. I like ESU decoders, you don't. The mLD should also work.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS


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