Dion at Toottoot, our NZ Marklin dealer (oldtoot is his dad) has a downloadable list of CV settings he recommends.

Go to http://www.toottoot.co.nz click on 'Downloads' in the left hand menu then click on 'Recommended CV settings for Marklin Motors and LokPilot Decoders (pdf)' under 'ESU / Loksound Manuals.'

Hi Janne,

I know how you feel. I went from V3.5 loksound to V 4.0, and experienced exactly what you are talking about.
There is an auto tune feature with Ver 4.0, but this is not perfect, Can work really well, but sometimes is no better than the standard settings.
See this chapter in the V4 decoder manual 11.1.3. Automatic calibration of the motor.
Download link. http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

In my experience you have to adj the motor CV's individually until you get it running smoothly. Read the manual carefully, as this explains what CV's you need to adjust, for eg. if it is jerky in the first speed steps or in the middle etc.
You soon get the hang of it. Have a note pad handy to record what CV's you changed to get best results, so you can keep a track of which ones gave you best results for each loco.

All my loco's are DCM, and they all have different motor CV settings, This is due to different gearing, and just mechanical tolerences/running characteristics.
You will master it, just a little patience required.

Regards,
Brian.

I have fitted several Lokpilot V4.0 decoders to locos with each of the three Marklin motor types.
So far I have found that the default settings seem to work ok with the Small Flat Commutator Motor (SFCM) and the Drum Commutator Motor (DCM) but are completely wrong with the Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM).
Without exception all my LFCM locos ran terribly with the default settings. They jerked and juddered in the mid speed range and often lunged forward about 20 or 30 cm just before stopping when the controller was set to speed 0.
They all exhibited exactly the same symptoms.
The locos were:
3021, 3022, 3047, 3054, 3066, 3074, 3075, 3096 and SET800.

I tried the auto calibration feature of the decoder but it didn't really help.

I found a set of values posted on this site (sorry I can't remember who posted them but if you recognise the values as yours then please accept my thanks).

I have put these values into all the above locos and the results are much better - so much so that I haven't yet felt the need to tweak them any further.

The values are quite a bit different from the default values.
They are:
CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 38
CV 53 = 32
CV 54 = 8
CV 55 = 16
CV 56 = 112

As I say they work ok for me in these nine locos so give them a try.

Good luck.

Paul

Here is the results of my todays ESU locos CV programming:

3067 LFCM and LokPilot V4.0:

CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before)

Comments: Much better and smoother running, no jerks = perfect now!


"3096" ÖBB BR 86 LFCM and LokPilot 4.0:

CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before)

Comments: Same results as above. Much better and smoother running, no jerks = perfect now!


3149 SNCB BR 80 diesel SFCM and LokPilot V4.0:

CV 2 = 2 (was 3 before)
CV 52 = 38 (same as before)
CV 53 = 34 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 28 (was 30 before)
CV 55 = 175 (was 180 before)
CV 56 = 200 (same as before)

Comments: Much smoother running with new CV values than before, no jerks = almost perfect...


Then to my earlier version ESU locos (the pain in the *** really ):

3066 LFCM with ESU LokSound 3.5:

CV 2 = 2
CV 52 = 32
CV 53 = 120
CV 54 = 60
CV 55 = 105
CV 56 = 32

Comments: I don't know if all these CV values have even effects to this 3.5 version LokSound decoder or not? I tried ESU's LokPilot V4.0 recommended values, but with not better results. Everything else is okay, but with smaller speeds loco motor sounds like it would have motor brakes on and when loco speed gets higher this noise suddenly goes off and loco runs "free" and happy above that speed and with no "motor brakes" noise... If someone can recommend other CV values for this that would be great!


3075 BR 216 LFCM with ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5????

CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 40
CV 53 = 50
CV 54 = 40
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

Comments: As this loco runs very good I just checked these CV values and did not change them at all.


2855 BR 212 "EVA" diesel LFCM with ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5????

CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 30
CV 53 = 45
CV 54 = 35
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

Comments: This loco has the worst running quality of all of these ESU locos that I have . I have tried many different CV "combos", but I have not get it running very well. With these settings it jerks less and runs as good as I have been able to get it. With higher speed it runs ok, but when driving slowly and accelerating it jerks more or less depending of the settings. It's motor has also terrible "motor brakes" sound effect!!!

If someone could help with those earlier ESU decoder equipped locos good recommended or by own testing good found out values, please post them here. Locos 3066 and 2855 with LFCM.

Regards,
Janne

Hi Janne,

Well it looks like you have got it well sorted with V4 decoders.
Now you have a recorded reference with the different CV values which gives you a better starting point for future conversions.
As far as the V3.0/3.5 I found them easier to set up. Try some of these values. The one is from my BR86.

LS V3.5 BR86
CV 2 = 3
CV 53 = 40
CV 54 = 20
CV 55 = 38
CV 56 = 64

Brian.

Hi Janne,

For LP V3, CV 52 default is 0, so leave at 0, as is not even listed as a configurable CV. In the LS V3.5, CV 52 is only used for Loco consist setup.
For LP V4, CV 52 is for Load control parameter «K» for slow driving.
So as you can see, CV 52 is totally different between V3 & V4 decoders.
Always refer to the particular manual for different version decoders, as they are different in some area's.

My BR 86 is 5 pole DCM, but give those CV values a try.

Regards,
Brian.

Update regarding these older ESU decoder equipped locos. 3066 with ESU LokSound 3.5 decoder was the only one capable to even run with CV 52 = 0 . 2855 BR 212 "EVA" and 3075 must have that CV value 52 = 10 . If CV 52 = 0 in both of these locos then they don't move anymore and just keep some bzzzzzzzbzzzzzzzz sound from their motors. Both locos also respond for this CV 52 settings saving into loco with that funny brrrrrbrrrrr sound.

So as I am not sure what ESU decoders they are this is confusing... They both need that CV 52, but 3075 don't respond to CV programming for values CV 54, CV 55 or CV 56 by keeping that funny brrrrbrrrr sound. So that decoder model in my 3075 don't understand CV 54-56.

2855 BR 212 "EVA" makes that programming settings saving "writing" sound brrrrbrrrr in all these CV settings (I'm not 100% sure for CV 56 though...). So if it reacts to CV 52 and that value can not be kept as zero (0) maybe even this decoder is not then ESU LokPilot 3??? Maybe some other version then. Is it easy to identify different ESU LokPilot decoder types from some code/text or just by picture of it? Or do they have different physical measurements? I have bought both locos as second hand ESU LokPilot locos and remember that they were selled as LokPilot 3 version, but could be something else (version or even manufacturer?).

Janne

John,

So is it better to use a smaller CV 2 value if loco don't jerk when it starts moving? I used CV 2 = 2 in many locos, but have now increased that value a bit. Many Märklin motors are quite happy with CV 2 = 2 and starts to move nice, smooth and slowly. I have thought that the CV 2 value must also have an effect how the motor will wear as these very low rpm running must be somehow harder for the motor than when it already spins more freely with a bit higher rpm. Is this just my stupid thoughts or does this have some real effect in motor wear?

Janne

I did a basic maintenance for my 3066. I removed motor bogie, dismantled the motor and cleaned and lubricated everything (gears and axles). Now it runs smoother and that motor brake noise is gone!

Then I did same for my 3067 and first it ran really good. But suddenly it will not run at more speed as say 20-30 km/h if it would be a real 1:1 scale loco. What could be happened? It seems like motor don't have power to run at any higher speeds. I will soon make a decision that in the future = only Märklin decoders in my locos. This kind of thing has ever happened to any Märklin decoder locos that I own.

Maybe these ESU decoders are more suitable to people who like to make computer programming and so on...

And yes, I already re-opened this 3067 and double checked everything. Decoder defect or something else? Max speed = 64 . It can be changed to for example 1, but then loco hardly moves. Now it goes almost "walking speed". Any ideas????

Hi Janne,

Interesting reading trough your experiments

I found some good reading on this page regarding back EMF control.

http://www.amhobby.com/p...i/intro_to_bemf_pid.html

The PID control, as we know it today, was initially invented for auto steering on ships and that’s how I remember what all these fancy terms means! I have been behind the rudder of large super tankers and it’s very easy to overshoot or undershoot the set point (course). And having a constant error (like a strong wind or current) only makes it more complicated. A auto pilot with PID (where you can also adjust how aggressive or weak it should be – similar to what we do with the CV 54-55), is a very handy piece of engineering

Brgds - Lasse

There is also a "backdoor"you can try: the CV54-Zero-trick.
Warning: You will need a fairly long stretch of straight track for this!

1. write down the CV values it had before you start, as they will be overwritten!
   
2. put the control dial on zero (so that the loc is standing still)
   
3. then set CV54 to value 0
   
4. and press f1
   
5. The loc will take off at full speed and the ESU unit will check characteristics of the engine and adjust accordingly

It worked perfectly for my 3511 that I just converted (using this kit from Luessi in Switzerland this was a breeze; it only took 10 minutes of soldering) I was playng around witht the settings but it kept jerking on start and stop. After trying a few times, I started googleing and found this on another forum...
My problem was solved and the "C" runs as smooth as ever, like it did when still on analog.

Janne, I find this odd, although i don't use the motors you are using all my loco have been converted with a 5 pole highefficiency motor and all I do with my lokprogrammer set the motor CV's to the designated motor type.

as a project I once put a ESU perm. magnet with the original motor and spend hours trying to get it running smoothly without success.

John

Thanks so much for those CV parameters - that sounds like a perfect place for me to start and then see how mine runs. I will pay attention to the powershoe connector - isn't that an odd arrangement? Smooth operation in stop/start and slow speed running is perfect for my needs and knowing about the CV54-0 trick is going to be very handy!

I'm pretty sure that the only damage is to the PCB, so getting that board was a perfect solution. An extremely helpful post by French_Fabrice allowed me to find it - thanks my friend! This Lok has always had very nice operation due to the worm drive and high quality motor - not to mention that it is both beautiful and unique.

I worked around very similar stuff for years but I never got involved with the hardware, so I am a beginner when it come to electronic repairs. But this looks easy enough even for me, so it will be a fun place to start.

I will post my outcome to the thread that I started on this topic and which got me lots of helpful advice and a new Marklin friend just 10 miles from my house.

Unlike some forums this one is always fun and always helpful - train geeks are so far on the edge that I guess we don't even get trolls!

Glad to hear it all went as smooth as with mine. Two beautiful ladies back on the tracks then ;-)
Rainer Luessi also has a whole section about his own track and some explanations about conversions of various material and other useful tips. Highly recommended.

Have you done a good cleaning of the gears, motor, new brushes and oiling before you put in the new decoder ?

Hello
That information is from 2007, so I think LokPilot v4 is not included, it's even possible that v3 isn't included either. I think that data is for the older versions v1 and v2.
Anyway thank you and greetings

Hello!
Old timer locomotive made of Märklin do have porr contact on the track and if you shall use new decoder i recommended change out motor, because it seems they draw a lot power and might cause problem with the decoder.

Hi Goofy,
I have converted >30 old locomotives, some even 60 years old, with LFCM, SFCM and DCM motors. Changing out the motor is not necessary if you clean the motor and gears properly with Isopropanol. I also clean the rotor in an ultrasonic cleaner.
Next to that: the contact with the track is with the pickup shoe and the wheels, you have to clean those too (and probably replace the pickup shoe). Furthermore, a 5* motor will draw roughly the same power as an original motor....

Hi Jay
OK, I think I understand what you're dealing with.
First of all I suggest you retunn all the CVs to the original suggested values, as per the table on page 46 of the manual
Then do the check on CV 53 for the "regelungsreferenz" as described in paragraph 11.1.2.3
This is ***very important*** because it determines the interaction between the permanent magnet and the rotor electrical characteristics .
There are significant (constructive) variations in their original electro-magnetic characteristics (especially the magnetic flux of the permanent magnet) but also with the mechanical conditions (friction, weight, etc) of the locomotive.
Also, disable the automated acceleration/deceleration function during decoder adjustment.
Ignore CV 52 for the moment because it is exclusively dedicated to the running characteristics on speed step "1" , and has no impact on the rest of the speed range.
Now adjust CV 54 and 55 if you're not yet satisfied with the running characteristics at mid and high speed.Try accelerate/ decelerate manually, one speed step at the time.
Once you feel the engine is OK , you can now work on CV 51 (and later on 52) to fine tune the behaviour in speed step 1 and 2 (i.e: also when the lok comes to a stop!)
Now check how the lok behaves just on step 1 and on step 2...
If you're happy, you can re-enable automatic accel/decel ...and the lok should be smooth.
Good luck
Jacques

Ok, looks like it changed CV53, the "regelungs referenz" value.
Normally you should be able to verify now that your loko continue to accelerate even in the last few speed steps rather than no longer accelerating at 2/3 of the range (i.e. step 17...19)
That's the test to make sure CV 53 is in the right range.
It may sound strange to have to check behaviour at the higher speed settings to fine tune how it runs at the lowest speed, but that's how it works.
It is that test that allows you to verify that the magnetic circuit is not (over)saturated .
With a PCM speed regulation like in these decoder, the energy transmitted to the motor is proportional to the product of the pulse length multiplied by the pulse amplitude.
If there is too much energy injected in the motor at slow speed, it will likely manifest itself by that "jump" you observed.
CV 53 determines the amplitude of the pulse, and that's where you control how you stay below the overload threshold.

Let us know the end of the story...

Cheers

Jacques