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Offline Janne75  
#1 Posted : 03 May 2013 20:39:46(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Hello all,

I have some ESU LokPilot V4.0 equipped locos. These are 3067 DSB Nohab that has LFCM, 3149 SNCB BR 80 that has SFCM and 3096 based BR 86 ÖBB that has LFCM. I have also a BR 212 (from 2855 EVA trainset) that has LFCM if I remember right and 3075 BR 216 that has also LFCM if I again remember right. These two have some earlier ESU LokPilot (3.0 or 3.5 version?). Then one 3066 SNCB Nohab with LFCM type motor and ESU LokSound 3.5 decoder.

With ESU LokPilot V4.0 instructions there comes recommended starting CV values for many types of different manufacturers motors. All "old" Märklin type motors SFCM, LFCM and DCM have the same "default values".

CV 2 = 4 (minimum speed)
CV 52 = 30
CV 53 = 50
CV 54 = 40
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

As I have managed to get some of my locos running smoother and better by adjusting these CV values above I would like to ask other forum members what kind of CV combos has resulted into very good running quality? And in what loco and with what motor type?

I have had experiences that with ESU decoders many of my locos are running worse than with Märklin 6090 or 6090X decoders. They "jerks" and it look really funny and that is far away from prototypically looking running charasteristics even if there is 126 speed steps and with long acceleration and braking delays. I have got them to run better but far from perfect. They also make some odd sound like motor braking or something like that.

If some of you have these CV values which work really well with these Märklin SFCM, LFCM and DCM type motors I would be very interested to see them. So please see your ESU LokPilot V4.0 type decoder equipped locos CV's from CS2 or some other controller which can show them. My experiences from default values in many locos are not so good. Locos can run with them but not very good... ThumbDown

I will not buy any ESU's anymore if I can not get them to run smoothly. I will use only Märklin decoders if problems are not solved by fine tuning these CV's as this should be the way to do it.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 03 May 2013 23:46:50(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,720
Location: New Zealand
Dion at Toottoot, our NZ Marklin dealer (oldtoot is his dad) has a downloadable list of CV settings he recommends.

Go to http://www.toottoot.co.nz click on 'Downloads' in the left hand menu then click on 'Recommended CV settings for Marklin Motors and LokPilot Decoders (pdf)' under 'ESU / Loksound Manuals.'
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Offline Janne75  
#3 Posted : 03 May 2013 23:54:05(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Many thanks!

So there is still hope with my ESU's then... and now when I see those CV values they are completely different what ESU recommended and all different motor types have their own CV "combo". This looks promising so far. On tomorrow I will test these with some of my ESU locos and if they start running better I adjust all of them with new CV values. ThumpUp I can see that here is not as many CV's as there is in my first post, but those values can be in ESU's recommended "default" values maybe? CV 52 and CV 56 is not listed. Or are these CV's for older ESU decoders than LokPilot V4.0?

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Lollo  
#4 Posted : 04 May 2013 09:31:40(UTC)
Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365
Hi Janne,

I know how you feel. I went from V3.5 loksound to V 4.0, and experienced exactly what you are talking about.
There is an auto tune feature with Ver 4.0, but this is not perfect, Can work really well, but sometimes is no better than the standard settings.
See this chapter in the V4 decoder manual 11.1.3. Automatic calibration of the motor.
Download link. http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

In my experience you have to adj the motor CV's individually until you get it running smoothly. Read the manual carefully, as this explains what CV's you need to adjust, for eg. if it is jerky in the first speed steps or in the middle etc.
You soon get the hang of it. Have a note pad handy to record what CV's you changed to get best results, so you can keep a track of which ones gave you best results for each loco.

All my loco's are DCM, and they all have different motor CV settings, This is due to different gearing, and just mechanical tolerences/running characteristics.
You will master it, just a little patience required.

Regards,
Brian.

Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
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Offline Janne75  
#5 Posted : 04 May 2013 10:34:03(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne,

I know how you feel. I went from V3.5 loksound to V 4.0, and experienced exactly what you are talking about.
There is an auto tune feature with Ver 4.0, but this is not perfect, Can work really well, but sometimes is no better than the standard settings.
See this chapter in the V4 decoder manual 11.1.3. Automatic calibration of the motor.
Download link. http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

In my experience you have to adj the motor CV's individually until you get it running smoothly. Read the manual carefully, as this explains what CV's you need to adjust, for eg. if it is jerky in the first speed steps or in the middle etc.
You soon get the hang of it. Have a note pad handy to record what CV's you changed to get best results, so you can keep a track of which ones gave you best results for each loco.

All my loco's are DCM, and they all have different motor CV settings, This is due to different gearing, and just mechanical tolerences/running characteristics.
You will master it, just a little patience required.

Regards,
Brian.



Thanks Brian,

Quite interesting that they have added text and instructions to chapter 11 in this ESU LokPilot V4.0 4th Edition. I have a mapped printed version of 3rd Edition from May 2011, so I have to update these pages into my map to be able to adjust CV values easier. This 4th Edition has much better explained what CV does what etc. There is also CV 51 and what it does. In my current 3rd Edition manual there is not this CV 51 in that table or in the text at those pages.

I will now try to change my 3149 SFCM motored little SNCB diesels motor CV values to those toottoot pages recommended values. They can be maybe for some earlier ESU decoder type as the values are very far from ESU's recommended starting values in their V4.0 manual. There is also less CV values than in the recommendation table. I will write down the current values, so it is easy to get back to these if results are worse than current.

I will let you know how it goes...

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Paul59  
#6 Posted : 04 May 2013 12:24:17(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: South East
I have fitted several Lokpilot V4.0 decoders to locos with each of the three Marklin motor types.
So far I have found that the default settings seem to work ok with the Small Flat Commutator Motor (SFCM) and the Drum Commutator Motor (DCM) but are completely wrong with the Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM).
Without exception all my LFCM locos ran terribly with the default settings. They jerked and juddered in the mid speed range and often lunged forward about 20 or 30 cm just before stopping when the controller was set to speed 0.
They all exhibited exactly the same symptoms.
The locos were:
3021, 3022, 3047, 3054, 3066, 3074, 3075, 3096 and SET800.

I tried the auto calibration feature of the decoder but it didn't really help.

I found a set of values posted on this site (sorry I can't remember who posted them but if you recognise the values as yours then please accept my thanks).

I have put these values into all the above locos and the results are much better - so much so that I haven't yet felt the need to tweak them any further.

The values are quite a bit different from the default values.
They are:
CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 38
CV 53 = 32
CV 54 = 8
CV 55 = 16
CV 56 = 112

As I say they work ok for me in these nine locos so give them a try.

Good luck.

Paul
Marklin HO using M track. ECOS 50200 software updated to version 3.7.0
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Offline Janne75  
#7 Posted : 04 May 2013 12:32:44(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
I had no success with the values from toottoot page as those are maybe for earlier versions. I even tried to set those other motor CV values to 0 that was not written at their page. CV 55 value of 12 is a very small value comparing to ESU's own recommended default starting value 175 for example. But leaving that CV 55 as 175 and CV 56 as 200 and just adjusting some of the other CV values gave me a bit better results than the previous ones. These are for 3149 with Märklin SFCM type motor (small flat commutator motor):

Previous CV values: (loco ran quite bad, jerks etc.)

CV 2 = 3
CV 52 = 38
CV 53 = 50
CV 54 = 30
CV 55 = 180
CV 56 = 200


New CV values: (loco runs much better with these CV's, smooth running, no jerks anymore) ThumpUp

CV 2 = 2 (smaller -1)
CV 52 = 38 (same as above)
CV 53 = 34 (smaller -16)
CV 54 = 28 (smaller -2)
CV 55 = 175 (smaller -5)
CV 56 = 200 (same as above)


Toottoot recommended CV: (for this SFCM, did not work with ESU LokPilot V4.0 not possible to use these values)

CV 2 = 6
(CV 52 = 30 or 0)
CV 53 = 20
CV 54 = 16
CV 55 = 12
(CV 56 = 200 or 0)

I tried to set ESU's recommended CV values for CV 52 and CV 56 or zero as their value (0). Neither worked well.



ESU's recommended CV: (bad running quality, loco jerks etc.)

CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 30
CV 53 = 50
CV 54 = 40
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

ESU recommends these CV values above as default starting values for all three older Märklin motors SFCM, LFCM and DCM. It did not give good results with my 3149 with SFCM.


Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 04 May 2013 17:04:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 04 May 2013 17:49:10(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Here is the results of my todays ESU locos CV programming:

3067 LFCM and LokPilot V4.0:

CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before)

Comments: Much better and smoother running, no jerks = perfect now!


"3096" ÖBB BR 86 LFCM and LokPilot 4.0:

CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before)

Comments: Same results as above. Much better and smoother running, no jerks = perfect now!


3149 SNCB BR 80 diesel SFCM and LokPilot V4.0:

CV 2 = 2 (was 3 before)
CV 52 = 38 (same as before)
CV 53 = 34 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 28 (was 30 before)
CV 55 = 175 (was 180 before)
CV 56 = 200 (same as before)

Comments: Much smoother running with new CV values than before, no jerks = almost perfect...


Then to my earlier version ESU locos (the pain in the *** really BigGrin ):

3066 LFCM with ESU LokSound 3.5:

CV 2 = 2
CV 52 = 32
CV 53 = 120
CV 54 = 60
CV 55 = 105
CV 56 = 32

Comments: I don't know if all these CV values have even effects to this 3.5 version LokSound decoder or not? I tried ESU's LokPilot V4.0 recommended values, but with not better results. Everything else is okay, but with smaller speeds loco motor sounds like it would have motor brakes on and when loco speed gets higher this noise suddenly goes off and loco runs "free" and happy above that speed and with no "motor brakes" noise... If someone can recommend other CV values for this that would be great! RollEyes


3075 BR 216 LFCM with ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5????

CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 40
CV 53 = 50
CV 54 = 40
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

Comments: As this loco runs very good I just checked these CV values and did not change them at all.


2855 BR 212 "EVA" diesel LFCM with ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5????

CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 30
CV 53 = 45
CV 54 = 35
CV 55 = 175
CV 56 = 200

Comments: This loco has the worst running quality of all of these ESU locos that I have ThumbDown . I have tried many different CV "combos", but I have not get it running very well. With these settings it jerks less and runs as good as I have been able to get it. With higher speed it runs ok, but when driving slowly and accelerating it jerks more or less depending of the settings. It's motor has also terrible "motor brakes" sound effect!!! LOL

If someone could help with those earlier ESU decoder equipped locos good recommended or by own testing good found out values, please post them here. Locos 3066 and 2855 with LFCM.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#9 Posted : 04 May 2013 18:10:13(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Paul59 Go to Quoted Post
I have fitted several Lokpilot V4.0 decoders to locos with each of the three Marklin motor types.
So far I have found that the default settings seem to work ok with the Small Flat Commutator Motor (SFCM) and the Drum Commutator Motor (DCM) but are completely wrong with the Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM).
Without exception all my LFCM locos ran terribly with the default settings. They jerked and juddered in the mid speed range and often lunged forward about 20 or 30 cm just before stopping when the controller was set to speed 0.
They all exhibited exactly the same symptoms.
The locos were:
3021, 3022, 3047, 3054, 3066, 3074, 3075, 3096 and SET800.

I tried the auto calibration feature of the decoder but it didn't really help.

I found a set of values posted on this site (sorry I can't remember who posted them but if you recognise the values as yours then please accept my thanks).

I have put these values into all the above locos and the results are much better - so much so that I haven't yet felt the need to tweak them any further.

The values are quite a bit different from the default values.
They are:
CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 38
CV 53 = 32
CV 54 = 8
CV 55 = 16
CV 56 = 112

As I say they work ok for me in these nine locos so give them a try.

Good luck.

Paul


Thanks Paul!

With your CV values for LFCM type motor I got two of my LokPilot V4.0 locos running much better today. Locos 3067 and 3096 based self modified ÖBB BR 86.

To these two those values are perfect ThumpUp . But for my 3149 SFCM type motor equipped SNCB diesel I found out good values by testing. I don't want to do anything for my 3075 as it runs good. But 3066 and 2855 needs adjusting. Both are with LFCM motor and 3066 has ESU LokSound 3.5 and 2855 (BR 212 "EVA") has maybe ESU LokPilot 3 decoder? I am not sure and could not find any version number from it.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Lollo  
#10 Posted : 05 May 2013 00:15:02(UTC)
Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365
Hi Janne,

Well it looks like you have got it well sorted with V4 decoders.
Now you have a recorded reference with the different CV values which gives you a better starting point for future conversions.
As far as the V3.0/3.5 I found them easier to set up. Try some of these values. The one is from my BR86.

LS V3.5 BR86
CV 2 = 3
CV 53 = 40
CV 54 = 20
CV 55 = 38
CV 56 = 64

Brian.
Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
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Offline Janne75  
#11 Posted : 05 May 2013 00:46:29(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne,

Well it looks like you have got it well sorted with V4 decoders.
Now you have a recorded reference with the different CV values which gives you a better starting point for future conversions.
As far as the V3.0/3.5 I found them easier to set up. Try some of these values. The one is from my BR86.

LS V3.5 BR86
CV 2 = 3
CV 53 = 40
CV 54 = 20
CV 55 = 38
CV 56 = 64

Brian.


Thanks Brian! ThumpUp

Are these CV values for a BR 86 with LFCM type motor or some other type? I hope so as I have only LFCM type motors in these older ESU locos (3066 ESU LokSound 3.5, 3075 ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5? and 2855 "EVA" BR 212 with ESU LokPilot 3 or 3.5?). I will try those values tomorrow. What about CV 52? Should it then be zero = 0 or is it a CV value which these ESU's don't understand = ignore?

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Lollo  
#12 Posted : 05 May 2013 06:49:07(UTC)
Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365
Hi Janne,

For LP V3, CV 52 default is 0, so leave at 0, as is not even listed as a configurable CV. In the LS V3.5, CV 52 is only used for Loco consist setup.
For LP V4, CV 52 is for Load control parameter «K» for slow driving.
So as you can see, CV 52 is totally different between V3 & V4 decoders.
Always refer to the particular manual for different version decoders, as they are different in some area's.

My BR 86 is 5 pole DCM, but give those CV values a try.

Regards,
Brian.
Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
Offline Janne75  
#13 Posted : 05 May 2013 11:21:21(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Lollo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne,

For LP V3, CV 52 default is 0, so leave at 0, as is not even listed as a configurable CV. In the LS V3.5, CV 52 is only used for Loco consist setup.
For LP V4, CV 52 is for Load control parameter «K» for slow driving.
So as you can see, CV 52 is totally different between V3 & V4 decoders.
Always refer to the particular manual for different version decoders, as they are different in some area's.

My BR 86 is 5 pole DCM, but give those CV values a try.

Regards,
Brian.


Thanks again Brian,

I modified CV values for my 2855 BR 212 "EVA", 3075 and 3066. I used those CV settings that you gave for LokSound 3.5. As I just read your message I included CV 52 = 10 to all of these locos, but best to set that value then as CV 52 = 0 instead of 10.

When I made CV adjusting I noticed some things. That BR 212 responded well to all commands and made that funny sound when saving each CV setting into locomotive. It runs now much better! ThumpUp This one must be a LP 3 decoder.

But my 3075 must have some earlier ESU LokPilot version than 3 as it don't respond to all CV values saving with that funny sound when saving them. It does this only with some of them (not for CV 54, 55 and 56 if I remember right). But it runs good now aswell. Not very bad before, but even better now. No jerking and perfect slow running charasteristics like that BR 212 has now.

Those CV settings worked also well for my 3066 with LokSound 3.5 decoder. I also set CV 52 = 10 to this one, but I will set it for zero value = 0 when I read your previous message. It runs good, no jerking and fantastic slow running charasteristics. But it does have that "noise" from motor/gears which ends at higher speeds. Like motor brakes on sound/noise. I think that it is best to open the motor and lubricate it and gears well. Every axle and so on. This loco has 5-pole armature like your BR 86 has.

It is really cool that I could get these CV values and managed to get my ESU locos to run MUCH smoother. If you ever come to Finland I can buy you some drinks! Wink

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#14 Posted : 05 May 2013 13:34:43(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Update regarding these older ESU decoder equipped locos. 3066 with ESU LokSound 3.5 decoder was the only one capable to even run with CV 52 = 0 . 2855 BR 212 "EVA" and 3075 must have that CV value 52 = 10 . If CV 52 = 0 in both of these locos then they don't move anymore and just keep some bzzzzzzzbzzzzzzzz BigGrin sound from their motors. Both locos also respond for this CV 52 settings saving into loco with that funny brrrrrbrrrrr Wink sound.

So as I am not sure what ESU decoders they are this is confusing... They both need that CV 52, but 3075 don't respond to CV programming for values CV 54, CV 55 or CV 56 by keeping that funny brrrrbrrrr sound. So that decoder model in my 3075 don't understand CV 54-56.

2855 BR 212 "EVA" makes that programming settings saving "writing" sound brrrrbrrrr in all these CV settings (I'm not 100% sure for CV 56 though...). So if it reacts to CV 52 and that value can not be kept as zero (0) maybe even this decoder is not then ESU LokPilot 3??? Maybe some other version then. Is it easy to identify different ESU LokPilot decoder types from some code/text or just by picture of it? Or do they have different physical measurements? I have bought both locos as second hand ESU LokPilot locos and remember that they were selled as LokPilot 3 version, but could be something else (version or even manufacturer?).

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 05 May 2013 13:46:53(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,579
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne, some motors behave differently although its the same motor.

I have programmed a lot of them but trying to copy one to another identical loco hasn't helped me at all.
CV 2 has a big role for your loco to start smoothly without a jerk some others you need to increase it to 3, I don't have any problems with my Roco locos.
It sometimes takes me more than an hour to get them right some don't need any adjustment.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Janne75  
#16 Posted : 05 May 2013 14:23:57(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Janne, some motors behave differently although its the same motor.

I have programmed a lot of them but trying to copy one to another identical loco hasn't helped me at all.
CV 2 has a big role for your loco to start smoothly without a jerk some others you need to increase it to 3, I don't have any problems with my Roco locos.
It sometimes takes me more than an hour to get them right some don't need any adjustment.

John


John,

So is it better to use a smaller CV 2 value if loco don't jerk when it starts moving? I used CV 2 = 2 in many locos, but have now increased that value a bit. Many Märklin motors are quite happy with CV 2 = 2 and starts to move nice, smooth and slowly. I have thought that the CV 2 value must also have an effect how the motor will wear as these very low rpm running must be somehow harder for the motor than when it already spins more freely with a bit higher rpm. Is this just my stupid thoughts or does this have some real effect in motor wear?

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 05 May 2013 16:09:47(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,579
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Janne, some motors behave differently although its the same motor.

I have programmed a lot of them but trying to copy one to another identical loco hasn't helped me at all.
CV 2 has a big role for your loco to start smoothly without a jerk some others you need to increase it to 3, I don't have any problems with my Roco locos.
It sometimes takes me more than an hour to get them right some don't need any adjustment.

John


John,

So is it better to use a smaller CV 2 value if loco don't jerk when it starts moving? I used CV 2 = 2 in many locos, but have now increased that value a bit. Many Märklin motors are quite happy with CV 2 = 2 and starts to move nice, smooth and slowly. I have thought that the CV 2 value must also have an effect how the motor will wear as these very low rpm running must be somehow harder for the motor than when it already spins more freely with a bit higher rpm. Is this just my stupid thoughts or does this have some real effect in motor wear?

Janne


Janne,

I'm not qualified to answer this question but unless the motor doesn't make any odd noise it should be ok.

Lots of Märklin modelers are not aware of, the motors or should I say brush plate is sometimes the culprit plus there is some movement with the motor itself, miniscule but
in some cases the outcome is noticeable.

John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline Janne75  
#18 Posted : 05 May 2013 18:58:43(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
I did a basic maintenance for my 3066. I removed motor bogie, dismantled the motor and cleaned and lubricated everything (gears and axles). Now it runs smoother and that motor brake noise is gone!

Then I did same for my 3067 and first it ran really good. But suddenly it will not run at more speed as say 20-30 km/h if it would be a real 1:1 scale loco. What could be happened? It seems like motor don't have power to run at any higher speeds. I will soon make a decision that in the future = only Märklin decoders in my locos. This kind of thing has ever happened to any Märklin decoder locos that I own.

Maybe these ESU decoders are more suitable to people who like to make computer programming and so on... Cursing

And yes, I already re-opened this 3067 and double checked everything. Decoder defect or something else? Max speed = 64 . It can be changed to for example 1, but then loco hardly moves. Now it goes almost "walking speed". Any ideas???? Confused
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#19 Posted : 02 June 2013 16:56:23(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Today I got my Nohab 3067 DSB running normally again. I changed maximum speed setting from 64 to 255 and now it runs ok. I just wonder why I had to set maximum speed setting to this high as my other ESU locos are happy with value 64. Maybe it has to do something with motor CV value settings or I have messed something else, who knows... Wink

But now when it runs good I will not touch anything in any of my loco CV or POM values if there is ESU decoder in the loco. I will not buy more ESU decoders or locos equipped with ESU decoders. The reason for this is that I always mess up with their settings and change something in basic CS2 loco settings screen, CV values or POM values (CV values also). I want locos that run perfectly from the factory. So if I buy more locos they will all be only Märklin in the future.

Some locos run really nice and smooth with ESU LokPilot 4 decoders, but not all. It can be tricky to get the settings right if no loco jerking is what is excpected. These decoders are cheap for their many good properties, but in my opinion a too complicated way to get a smooth running loco. I have almost every loco I want so these six ESU equipped locos will be the last ones.

I appreciate all people who have skills to set their locos running smoothly with these decoders and can understand that it is the most cost effective way to digitalise locos with these same properties.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Danlake  
#20 Posted : 02 June 2013 18:22:38(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Hi Janne,

Interesting reading trough your experimentsCool

I found some good reading on this page regarding back EMF control.

http://www.amhobby.com/p...i/intro_to_bemf_pid.html

The PID control, as we know it today, was initially invented for auto steering on ships and that’s how I remember what all these fancy terms means! I have been behind the rudder of large super tankers and it’s very easy to overshoot or undershoot the set point (course). And having a constant error (like a strong wind or current) only makes it more complicated. A auto pilot with PID (where you can also adjust how aggressive or weak it should be – similar to what we do with the CV 54-55), is a very handy piece of engineeringThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Danlake
Offline Janne75  
#21 Posted : 02 June 2013 18:46:55(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,584
Location: Finland
Lasse,

Thanks from very interesting information of other application for PID where CV values are used ThumpUp . I thought before that these are only used for MRR controlling.

Edit: I just read that web-site which link you posted. There is much information that helps to understand how motor load control (MRR cruise control BigGrin ) works. Thanks very much!

Best regards,

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline tjones  
#22 Posted : 22 February 2016 19:22:14(UTC)
tjones


Joined: 06/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 23
There is also a "backdoor"you can try: the CV54-Zero-trick.
Warning: You will need a fairly long stretch of straight track for this!
  1. write down the CV values it had before you start, as they will be overwritten!
  2. put the control dial on zero (so that the loc is standing still)
  3. then set CV54 to value 0
  4. and press f1
  5. The loc will take off at full speed and the ESU unit will check characteristics of the engine and adjust accordingly


It worked perfectly for my 3511 that I just converted (using this kit from Luessi in Switzerland this was a breeze; it only took 10 minutes of soldering) I was playng around witht the settings but it kept jerking on start and stop. After trying a few times, I started googleing and found this on another forum...
My problem was solved and the "C" runs as smooth as ever, like it did when still on analog.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#23 Posted : 23 February 2016 03:23:59(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,171
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: tjones Go to Quoted Post

My problem was solved and the "C" runs as smooth as ever, like it did when still on analog.


Thanks so much for your post - my very first use of a LokPilot 4 will be in my 3611 and your suggestion sounds like exactly what I may need to do.

The PCB in my 3611 is damaged and a few weeks ago I ordered the LokPilot and the Luessi board from your link to repair it. It is good to hear that it went so well for you.

Would you care to share the CV values that were generated when you did the CV54-Zero trick?

Thanks,

Jim

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 23 February 2016 07:23:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,579
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Janne, I find this odd, although i don't use the motors you are using all my loco have been converted with a 5 pole highefficiency motor and all I do with my lokprogrammer set the motor CV's to the designated motor type.

as a project I once put a ESU perm. magnet with the original motor and spend hours trying to get it running smoothly without success.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline tjones  
#25 Posted : 23 February 2016 21:33:02(UTC)
tjones


Joined: 06/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post


Thanks so much for your post - my very first use of a LokPilot 4 will be in my 3611 and your suggestion sounds like exactly what I may need to do.

The PCB in my 3611 is damaged and a few weeks ago I ordered the LokPilot and the Luessi board from your link to repair it. It is good to hear that it went so well for you.

Would you care to share the CV values that were generated when you did the CV54-Zero trick?

Thanks,

Jim



Hi Jim,

I hope the PCB is the only thing damaged there? The instructions with the kit are crystal clear and all you need to do is resolder the cables in the same order on the new board as on the old one. I only had to bend the holder for the powershoe a little bit inward so that it attached.

Here are the values for the 3511 that the decoder generated itself.
CV2=0
CV52=8
CV53=134
CV54=45
CV55=12
CV56=255

I am sure it could be improved still, but this makes her start and stop very smoothly, without any jumps, and drive at low speed without any problems.

Good luck,
V

Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 24 February 2016 01:43:57(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,171
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: tjones Go to Quoted Post

Hi Jim,

I hope the PCB is the only thing damaged there? The instructions with the kit are crystal clear and all you need to do is resolder the cables in the same order on the new board as on the old one. I only had to bend the holder for the powershoe a little bit inward so that it attached.

I am sure it could be improved still, but this makes her start and stop very smoothly, without any jumps, and drive at low speed without any problems.

Good luck,
V

Thanks so much for those CV parameters - that sounds like a perfect place for me to start and then see how mine runs. I will pay attention to the powershoe connector - isn't that an odd arrangement? Smooth operation in stop/start and slow speed running is perfect for my needs and knowing about the CV54-0 trick is going to be very handy!

I'm pretty sure that the only damage is to the PCB, so getting that board was a perfect solution. An extremely helpful post by French_Fabrice allowed me to find it - thanks my friend! This Lok has always had very nice operation due to the worm drive and high quality motor - not to mention that it is both beautiful and unique.

I worked around very similar stuff for years but I never got involved with the hardware, so I am a beginner when it come to electronic repairs. But this looks easy enough even for me, so it will be a fun place to start.

I will post my outcome to the thread that I started on this topic and which got me lots of helpful advice and a new Marklin friend just 10 miles from my house.

Unlike some forums this one is always fun and always helpful - train geeks are so far on the edge that I guess we don't even get trolls!

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline dickinsonj  
#27 Posted : 20 March 2016 23:48:58(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,171
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: tjones Go to Quoted Post

I am sure it could be improved still, but this makes her start and stop very smoothly, without any jumps, and drive at low speed without any problems.

Good luck,
V


I installed the new PCB today, and it was as easy as you suggested. I used the CV values that you supplied and my 3611 now runs perfectly. Smooth starts and stops and great slow speed running. I also had to bend the power shoe holder just a bit for good contact, so I am glad you mentioned that. Thanks for your help and input. It is great to see my Class C back on the track and running so well.

I can highly recommend the Luessi board, which made the custom installation of a new decoder in my Lok quick and easy. I need to spend some time on the Luessi site and see what else they have that I might be able to use.

Jim
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline tjones  
#28 Posted : 04 April 2016 20:51:21(UTC)
tjones


Joined: 06/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post


I installed the new PCB today, and it was as easy as you suggested. I used the CV values that you supplied and my 3611 now runs perfectly. Smooth starts and stops and great slow speed running. I also had to bend the power shoe holder just a bit for good contact, so I am glad you mentioned that. Thanks for your help and input. It is great to see my Class C back on the track and running so well.

I can highly recommend the Luessi board, which made the custom installation of a new decoder in my Lok quick and easy. I need to spend some time on the Luessi site and see what else they have that I might be able to use.

Jim


Glad to hear it all went as smooth as with mine. Two beautiful ladies back on the tracks then ;-)
Rainer Luessi also has a whole section about his own track and some explanations about conversions of various material and other useful tips. Highly recommended.
Offline dickinsonj  
#29 Posted : 05 April 2016 01:12:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,171
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: tjones Go to Quoted Post

Glad to hear it all went as smooth as with mine. Two beautiful ladies back on the tracks then ;-)
Rainer Luessi also has a whole section about his own track and some explanations about conversions of various material and other useful tips. Highly recommended.


I saw those areas on his site and have not taken the time to go back a check them out. Thanks for the recommendation - I will put that on my to-do list now for sure. I just finished my BR 103 upgrade to 5-pole and a programmable MM chip with primitive load compensation. It went pretty well but of course it does not run like the LokPilot.

I really need to stop buying stuff for a while anyway and that makes for a good time for some self-education. Cool

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Oliver nagel  
#30 Posted : 13 April 2016 03:17:57(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
Have you done a good cleaning of the gears, motor, new brushes and oiling before you put in the new decoder ?
Offline Jvdwaa  
#31 Posted : 27 September 2019 12:16:06(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Here is the results of my todays ESU locos CV programming:

3067 LFCM and LokPilot V4.0:

CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before)

Comments: Much better and smoother running, no jerks = perfect now!

Janne


Hi Janne,

Found your post from 6 years ago, and you made me very happy BigGrin
I have been struggling with the LFCM motors since the lokprogrammer updates after version 4.11.9184. Running was OK, but the jerking when stopping the loco was terrible: sometimes the loco would jump 10-15 cm forward. Especially when driving via software (like the popular Koploper in the Netherlands) this behavior is hopeless, because the locos will and up on a turnout instead of before.

What I don't understand in this is that Esu has not altered anything in the default LFCM settings, as I am not the only one encountering this problem. As it is also very difficult to get into direct contact with Esu, I guess this problem will not be solved by them Sad
Offline LongHairedDavid  
#32 Posted : 27 September 2019 14:02:40(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: Jvdwaa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
As it is also very difficult to get into direct contact with Esu, I guess this problem will not be solved by them Sad


Have you tried the ESU forums?

http://www.esu.eu/en/forum/forums-overview/

Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
Offline Jvdwaa  
#33 Posted : 27 September 2019 20:51:05(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jvdwaa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
As it is also very difficult to get into direct contact with Esu, I guess this problem will not be solved by them Sad


Have you tried the ESU forums?

http://www.esu.eu/en/forum/forums-overview/



That was the route I started with 3 years ago, but as with many forums, the supplier is not acting actively (at least not noticeably).
I did get some other suggestions for the decoder settings, but none of them were satisfying (to put it mildly).
Of course I posted the settings above on the Esu forum, so at least they can be found.
What really would be an improvement if Esu would use the questions and proper answers to create a good knowledge base, so users can find answers directly instead of plowing through uncountable pages with irrelevant information....

Edited by user 28 September 2019 10:55:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline amartinezv  
#34 Posted : 28 September 2019 04:00:25(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 251
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Dion at Toottoot, our NZ Marklin dealer (oldtoot is his dad) has a downloadable list of CV settings he recommends.

Go to http://www.toottoot.co.nz click on 'Downloads' in the left hand menu then click on 'Recommended CV settings for Marklin Motors and LokPilot Decoders (pdf)' under 'ESU / Loksound Manuals.'


Hello
That information is from 2007, so I think LokPilot v4 is not included, it's even possible that v3 isn't included either. I think that data is for the older versions v1 and v2.
Anyway thank you and greetings
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline Jvdwaa  
#35 Posted : 28 September 2019 14:20:19(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8

And I thought I had the one-size-fits-all solution for LFCM motors + Lokpilot 4.0 + Hamo magnet with the settings of Janne75:
CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before).

No such luck however, I tested the same settings with a 3053 (E03), and the slow driving was hopeless. Maybe the settings will work with my other LFCM motors (3021, 3048. etc), but for the 3053 it is back to the testing board.

I did find a suggestion to modify CV10 (after switching on the Adaptive Regulation Frequency in CV124.4. That did modify some of the jumping after stopping, but not completely (sometimes it jumped, sometimes it didn't).
Offline Goofy  
#36 Posted : 28 September 2019 16:21:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
Hello!
Old timer locomotive made of Märklin do have porr contact on the track and if you shall use new decoder i recommended change out motor, because it seems they draw a lot power and might cause problem with the decoder.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline jvuye  
#37 Posted : 28 September 2019 23:43:56(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,684
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Jvdwaa Go to Quoted Post

And I thought I had the one-size-fits-all solution for LFCM motors + Lokpilot 4.0 + Hamo magnet with the settings of Janne75:
CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before).

No such luck however, I tested the same settings with a 3053 (E03), and the slow driving was hopeless. Maybe the settings will work with my other LFCM motors (3021, 3048. etc), but for the 3053 it is back to the testing board.

I did find a suggestion to modify CV10 (after switching on the Adaptive Regulation Frequency in CV124.4. That did modify some of the jumping after stopping, but not completely (sometimes it jumped, sometimes it didn't).


Dumb question maybe on my part, but have you tried the automatic set up feature? (as described in the ESU manual °
I have found that it's a very good start.
Also an observation from many years (over 20...) of fiddling with that stuff: I have found that you may need to (progressively) lower the reference voltage before you can get a grip on excessive "jerking".
Good luck
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Jvdwaa  
#38 Posted : 29 September 2019 14:30:43(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Hello!
Old timer locomotive made of Märklin do have poor contact on the track and if you shall use new decoder i recommended change out motor, because it seems they draw a lot power and might cause problem with the decoder.


Hi Goofy,
I have converted >30 old locomotives, some even 60 years old, with LFCM, SFCM and DCM motors. Changing out the motor is not necessary if you clean the motor and gears properly with Isopropanol. I also clean the rotor in an ultrasonic cleaner.
Next to that: the contact with the track is with the pickup shoe and the wheels, you have to clean those too (and probably replace the pickup shoe). Furthermore, a 5* motor will draw roughly the same power as an original motor....
Offline Jvdwaa  
#39 Posted : 29 September 2019 14:34:52(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jvdwaa Go to Quoted Post

And I thought I had the one-size-fits-all solution for LFCM motors + Lokpilot 4.0 + Hamo magnet with the settings of Janne75:
CV 2 = 4 (same as before)
CV 52 = 38 (was 30 before)
CV 53 = 32 (was 50 before)
CV 54 = 8 (was 40 before)
CV 55 = 16 (was 175 before)
CV 56 = 112 (was 200 before).

No such luck however, I tested the same settings with a 3053 (E03), and the slow driving was hopeless. Maybe the settings will work with my other LFCM motors (3021, 3048. etc), but for the 3053 it is back to the testing board.

I did find a suggestion to modify CV10 (after switching on the Adaptive Regulation Frequency in CV124.4. That did modify some of the jumping after stopping, but not completely (sometimes it jumped, sometimes it didn't).


Dumb question maybe on my part, but have you tried the automatic set up feature? (as described in the ESU manual °
I have found that it's a very good start.
Also an observation from many years (over 20...) of fiddling with that stuff: I have found that you may need to (progressively) lower the reference voltage before you can get a grip on excessive "jerking".
Good luck


Hi Jvuye,
I did try the automatic setup with my 3053, but that was already a long time ago. I am going to make a test track to do that test again. However, my experience was that I ended up with the default settings as generated by the lokprogrammer. Will report back after testing.
The main problem I encounter is the jump forward after a stop, not the driving characteristics as such.
Offline jvuye  
#40 Posted : 30 September 2019 15:37:21(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,684
Location: South Western France
Hi Jay
OK, I think I understand what you're dealing with.
First of all I suggest you retunn all the CVs to the original suggested values, as per the table on page 46 of the manual
Then do the check on CV 53 for the "regelungsreferenz" as described in paragraph 11.1.2.3
This is ***very important*** because it determines the interaction between the permanent magnet and the rotor electrical characteristics .
There are significant (constructive) variations in their original electro-magnetic characteristics (especially the magnetic flux of the permanent magnet) but also with the mechanical conditions (friction, weight, etc) of the locomotive.
Also, disable the automated acceleration/deceleration function during decoder adjustment.
Ignore CV 52 for the moment because it is exclusively dedicated to the running characteristics on speed step "1" , and has no impact on the rest of the speed range.
Now adjust CV 54 and 55 if you're not yet satisfied with the running characteristics at mid and high speed.Try accelerate/ decelerate manually, one speed step at the time.
Once you feel the engine is OK , you can now work on CV 51 (and later on 52) to fine tune the behaviour in speed step 1 and 2 (i.e: also when the lok comes to a stop!)
Now check how the lok behaves just on step 1 and on step 2...
If you're happy, you can re-enable automatic accel/decel ...and the lok should be smooth.
Good luck
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline Jvdwaa  
#41 Posted : 03 October 2019 10:42:02(UTC)
Jvdwaa

Netherlands   
Joined: 04/04/2017(UTC)
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jay
OK, I think I understand what you're dealing with.
First of all I suggest you retunn all the CVs to the original suggested values, as per the table on page 46 of the manual
Then do the check on CV 53 for the "regelungsreferenz" as described in paragraph 11.1.2.3
This is ***very important*** because it determines the interaction between the permanent magnet and the rotor electrical characteristics .
There are significant (constructive) variations in their original electro-magnetic characteristics (especially the magnetic flux of the permanent magnet) but also with the mechanical conditions (friction, weight, etc) of the locomotive.
Also, disable the automated acceleration/deceleration function during decoder adjustment.
Ignore CV 52 for the moment because it is exclusively dedicated to the running characteristics on speed step "1" , and has no impact on the rest of the speed range.
Now adjust CV 54 and 55 if you're not yet satisfied with the running characteristics at mid and high speed.Try accelerate/ decelerate manually, one speed step at the time.
Once you feel the engine is OK , you can now work on CV 51 (and later on 52) to fine tune the behaviour in speed step 1 and 2 (i.e: also when the lok comes to a stop!)
Now check how the lok behaves just on step 1 and on step 2...
If you're happy, you can re-enable automatic accel/decel ...and the lok should be smooth.
Good luck
Jacques


Hi Jacques,
I did an automatic tuning of the 3053/E03 and guess what? It came back with different settings than 3 years ago, and these settings seem to have solved the "jumping forward" problem.
CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 24
CV 53 = 44
CV 54 = 50
CV 55 = 24
CV 56 = 112
The slow driving can be smoother, but that is a matter of fine tuning.

Joost
Offline jvuye  
#42 Posted : 04 October 2019 10:56:59(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,684
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Jvdwaa Go to Quoted Post


Hi Jacques,
I did an automatic tuning of the 3053/E03 and guess what? It came back with different settings than 3 years ago, and these settings seem to have solved the "jumping forward" problem.
CV 2 = 4
CV 52 = 24
CV 53 = 44
CV 54 = 50
CV 55 = 24
CV 56 = 112
The slow driving can be smoother, but that is a matter of fine tuning.

Joost


Ok, looks like it changed CV53, the "regelungs referenz" value.
Normally you should be able to verify now that your loko continue to accelerate even in the last few speed steps rather than no longer accelerating at 2/3 of the range (i.e. step 17...19)
That's the test to make sure CV 53 is in the right range.
It may sound strange to have to check behaviour at the higher speed settings to fine tune how it runs at the lowest speed, but that's how it works.
It is that test that allows you to verify that the magnetic circuit is not (over)saturated .
With a PCM speed regulation like in these decoder, the energy transmitted to the motor is proportional to the product of the pulse length multiplied by the pulse amplitude.
If there is too much energy injected in the motor at slow speed, it will likely manifest itself by that "jump" you observed.
CV 53 determines the amplitude of the pulse, and that's where you control how you stay below the overload threshold.

Let us know the end of the story...Wink

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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