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Offline Mark5  
#1 Posted : 13 March 2013 18:30:05(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,179
Location: Montreal
Hello all Marklinists,

Questions I do have:
1)
Do you think its worth it, and how complicated is it to take older analog DC models and convert them to run digitally on AC.
I have a pretty nice Athearn flywheel loco, and wondering what kind of performance it would give when converting to AC?
Has anyone converted these?

Also, I am also interested in buying some of the Rivarossi FS Locos, but not sure its worth the work to convert them to AC.
How well do older Rivarossi Locos convert over?

This leads me to my next question.
2)
For those of you who run both DC and AC on the same layout, what kind of running systems have you set up?

3)
WRT to K-track, it seems to me the two track rails are/can be isolated from one another,
has it worked for anyone to use K-track for both DC and AC if converted over with a toggle switch.
I understand the perils of getting wires crossed and isolating the two systems.
Wondering if its possible or if anyone on the forum does/has done/plans to do this?

Thanks in advance...
- Mark
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
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Offline kbvrod  
#2 Posted : 13 March 2013 19:47:16(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Mark,all,


>Do you think its worth it, and how complicated is it to take older analog DC models and convert them to run digitally on AC.
I have a pretty nice Athearn flywheel loco, and wondering what kind of performance it would give when converting to AC?
Has anyone converted these? <

How does it run on DC?BigGrin
A DC lok is easy to convert to 3-rail AC except for a few things.Is the motor ground to the chassis? Can you fit a shoe that will work?Things like that,...

>3)WRT to K-track, it seems to me the two track rails are/can be isolated from one another,
has it worked for anyone to use K-track for both DC and AC if converted over with a toggle switch.
I understand the perils of getting wires crossed and isolating the two systems.
Wondering if its possible or if anyone on the forum does/has done/plans to do this?<

The ETE module group has been doing this for years: http://www.ete.org/

K-track is used for that reason alone.

Dr D




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Offline Mark5  
#3 Posted : 13 March 2013 21:14:17(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,179
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post

[ . . . ]
K-track is used for that reason alone.
[ . . . ]


Thanks Kevin,
Good to know.
Better start using it for DC then instead of AC Wink

I looked at the ETE site to see if there was any info there, but did not find anything. I'd love to hear/see more discussion on how others have used and implemented it K-track for DC.

Also any tutorials here on DC to AC conversions? The keywords are so common that a search of it does not seem to yield anything.

- Mark






Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline Winterblade73  
#4 Posted : 13 March 2013 22:19:19(UTC)
Winterblade73

United States   
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 255
Location: San Diego CA
This was all I could find regarding the ETE specs for AC & DC operation

http://www.ete.org/modspecs2.htm#WIRING
Phil from SoCal
Member of ETE SoCal since 2011
ETE SoCal Facebook Page
Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer Luxembourgeois (CFL) Era III-VI
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Offline trainbuff  
#5 Posted : 13 March 2013 22:22:23(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 499
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post


. . .

Also any tutorials here on DC to AC conversions? The keywords are so common that a search of it does not seem to yield anything.

- Mark



Mark, hope this helps, not an Athearn flywheel, but it documents what I did to convert an old DC lok to run on AC: https://www.marklin-user...Finished.aspx#post74248. When I was researching the topic I found lots of info but I used google instead of the forum search. You can also search the forum by typing marklin-user.net along with any other key words in google. Most of the time the google search is quicker and easier for me.

Good luck
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Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 14 March 2013 03:48:41(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,146
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post

[ . . . ]
K-track is used for that reason alone.
[ . . . ]


Thanks Kevin,
Good to know.
Better start using it for DC then instead of AC Wink

I looked at the ETE site to see if there was any info there, but did not find anything. I'd love to hear/see more discussion on how others have used and implemented it K-track for DC.

Also any tutorials here on DC to AC conversions? The keywords are so common that a search of it does not seem to yield anything.

- Mark



One of the problems with K-track is not so much the single track sections, but the turnouts and double-slips. The electrical bridging of the two outer rails is repeated at both ends and isolating them is actually quite difficult.

Some months ago I completely stripped a K-track double-slip in an attempt to free a sticky blade, this gave me a good insight to the links between the rails and what would be required to isolate them. I was successful in freeing the sticky blade, but it was a big operation, which among others things required grinding off 4 rivets and working out how to secure them during reassembly.

I simply could not recommend it as a practical procedure but maybe I missed something obvious and if there is information on how to achieve electrical isolation of turnouts and double-slips I'd love to see it.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 14 March 2013 05:33:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,627
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the only difference between AC and DC is the loco it self, a track should not stop you to run both systems. a common solution to run both on the same track is for electric locos only; use an overhead system, does not apply to steam or diesel.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kariosls37  
#8 Posted : 14 March 2013 06:27:39(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
A word of warning, on more modern US locos thee wheels have relatively small flanges. In some cases(especially with M-track and the old style K track) they may have trouble staying on the track going through tight points. You may want to check this before rebuilding the loco.

Cheers,
Rick
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 14 March 2013 07:46:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,533
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
One of the problems with K-track is not so much the single track sections, but the turnouts and double-slips. The electrical bridging of the two outer rails is repeated at both ends and isolating them is actually quite difficult.
Slim K track turnouts do not have this connection and can be used out of the box for DC operation.
With the slim ones there is only one problem: you cannot get short locos over the slim double-slip because there is a long stretch without power (talking 'bout e.g. Köf II and Kö I here), but Bo'Bo' locos worked fine.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kbvrod  
#10 Posted : 14 March 2013 15:51:45(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
One of the problems with K-track is not so much the single track sections, but the turnouts and double-slips. The electrical bridging of the two outer rails is repeated at both ends and isolating them is actually quite difficult.
Slim K track turnouts do not have this connection and can be used out of the box for DC operation.
With the slim ones there is only one problem: you cannot get short locos over the slim double-slip because there is a long stretch without power (talking 'bout e.g. Köf II and Kö I here), but Bo'Bo' locos worked fine.




Hi all,
See: http://home.arcor.de/f.heitkamp...ioc/Seite03/index-3.html


Dr D

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