Looking forward to answers to this excellent question.
Thanks for asking Francisco.

Great review Besra!
Thanks so much for posting this.

I am guessing you meant the "old 3-pole motor" in the statement above?
I'd love to hear more (see more) of one example of a 35xx loco that you converted.
What is HLA?

For your amusement, Google gives me
- Historic Langhorne Association
- HLA Genotype Imputation
- HLA-Dependent T Cell
- HLA-restricted epitopes
- HLA-based train control simulation system (prototype??)
- High-level architecture -
- HLA . Hong Leong Assurance

Right, none of the above get me closer.
Oh ...wait found this
HLA - Hochleistungsantrieb which translates as High Performance Drive.

But what actually does that mean in the MMR context?
A review of the HLA+Zimo decoders would make a great thread in itself.

- Mark

Besra many thanks for your answer, very clarifying!!
The locos in wich i want to install this decoder are a 3047 and a 3048, but if the results are good, perhaps i will fit it in some of my delta equipped ones.
Do you think the decoder will handle the smoke units and telex with no problems?
Should i use a relay?
Regards
Francisco

Hi Francisco,

I have a 3047 (BR 44) and a 3048 (BR 01), too . The 3047 is indeed equipped with the UB 76200 and running very good! This one you can try to convert without concerns.
The CVs controlling the motor regulation are

CV....value (default)....Meaning [as far as I know]

53....200 (150)..........EMF sampling interval
54....240 (130)..........P-value of PID controller (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
55....20 (30).............I-value of PID controller
56....55 (48).............EMF scaling
57....10 (3 ?).............D-value of PID controller
58....25 (25).............EMF sampling time

EMF sampling interval: How often the measurement is performed. Low values = short interval = high rate mean faster reaction but also less motor power at given EMF sampling time. Loco may tend to shake or jitter. Increase value if acceleration is inhomogeneous.
EMF sampling time: How long the measurement will take. High values = more time means higher accuracy and less motor power.
The higher the sampling rate the lower the sampling time has to be; very long times at high rates will not work as there is no remaining time to power the motor.


Concerning smoke units and TELEX:
TELEX is working fine in my BR 86 (3096).
I have no experience with smoke units and UB76200.

In general the 76200 produces a lot of waste heat compared to other decoders as it has to power the field coil and the armature. Further permanent load from a smoke unit may lead to overheating depending on how the decoder is mounted. The decoder is not destroyed by overheating but it will switch off the motor and the head lights start blinking. Track power has to be switched off and on to resume normal operation.
My recommendation is to mount it to the chassis using the screw from the reversing relay as this turned out to result in best heat dissipation. Be aware you need a few metal flat washers or something like that to keep sufficient distance between chassis and decoder. No part of the decoder other than the area around the mounting hole must ever make contact to the chassis or the decoder will immediately die! Use flat washers small in diameter (or, e.g., a M3 nut + washer) and make sure they do not short-circuit anything on the circuit board (but don't use plastic parts as this will hinder heat dissipation).

The motor of the BR 01 (3048) has a somewhat higher power consumption compared to other models (at least mine has). I have my doubts that the 76200 can be used here even though I've never tried. My 3048 got an ESU field magnet and runs good with a Zimo MX630. Very loud, though . The MX630 (1.0A continuous load max.) is more or less used to full capacity if the smoke unit is on: If the EMF sampling rate is set too high, the decoder will overheat. MX631 (1.2A ) or MX632 (1.6A) should be better.

Best regards
Besra

Edited by user 21 March 2013 18:26:42(UTC)  | Reason: motor parameters updated

Thanks for your answer Besra, well i have to wait the locos to get here and then order the decoders, so i think i will be able too some feedback in about a month....

No concerns with the 3047, as for the 3048:

I have another 01, converted with an high efficiency motor and a LP2.0 from many years now, it runs like heaven, but the motor plate does not fit at once, i had to made some modifications on it, the one that is coming, is as i said so mint, that i dont to touch it too much, i will give a try with the 76200 and see, as for the Hamo magnet, i have a 3022 with a LFCM converted with an ESU kit, and it is very noisy, also, driving characteristics are not the best, perhaps i have not try too much with CV, but i dont have that "feel" with electric locos......

When all the parts are here and conversions are done i will provide more feedback with the results, hope that at the time my CS2 will be back from Germany and not have to do all the configuration with the MS2 only.
Cheers
Francisco

Ok, back to this topic.....today have arrived a bunch of 76200 decoders, so far......not so good.......but i think that it is not a decoder problem, i think that perhaps it is the MS2 that really sucks!!!!
As many of you may know my CS2 is having a nice vacation at Goeppingen for about 4 months now so i have been forced to use my son's MS2 from a starter set, as i have already pointed out i am not happy with the performance of it since it does not recognize some locos equiped with ESU decoders, having not trouble with Maerklin ones equipped with MM2 or MFX, even some Deltas run well, but back to the topic...
I have installed one 76200 on a 3047, when tested it simples does not work well, i think it was a short but i double checked, and everything was ok, i programmes the values that Besra pointed early on the thread but the performance was poor, it jerks, seems to give no power to the coil at some speed steps, simply stops run sometimes, the max speed was very low, when i switch the lights on it simply stops, and the thing that most worried me was that with the throttle at 0, if i swichted the lights on, they blinked a lot, and in both directions of travel, i thought that i might be overheating, but the loco was stand still......perhaps the LCFM draws too much current? Well, i installed another one on a 3098, and everything was worse..........
I was almost giving it up, when i tried to make a test on analog, and...........everything was perfect!!!!! no flickering on the lights, stays on only on forward, and the max speed was the one that we are all used on an analog loco, just like a lightning!!!!
Step two: i have unpacked an old MS1, program a loco with adress 01 and.....yes, you are right, everything works as heaven again!!!! not a chance to test on a big track because i set up only 3 pieces of it but they worked fine.....
i will now search for a connector box to do the test on the layout and see....wich i have found and.....the locos works just fine!
Any ideas of why may i having this behaviour??
Regards
Francisco

Well, with the CS2 back it was easier to tune those decoders, and they are running very well, even if they are very sensitive to dirt in the tracks ( the layout has not have any intense use in some time now ), with a couple of turns everything is better now, i have fitted the units in a BR44, red BR03 and the black P8, in the two firts i have yet to wire smoke units and telex, but the 3098 is running just fine, take a look

Cool vids Francisco, thanks for sharing!

The one with the 03 impressively shows a well working load regulation of the 76200. I always wonder why some folks claim it has a bad (or almost no) load regulation. You proved them wrong!

The 3089 has no contact for a smoke unit, that's true. But it should be easy to solder a wire to the unit. Seuthe also offers wired smoke units (e.g. No. 100), if needed.

Best regards
Besra

Hi Francisco,

I'm very happy to hear these good results!


My 3089 had to run through lot of conversions until I was (and still am) satisfied: The first one was from analogue to a very early and very cheap Tams decoder (LD W-1 or something). Not so good. Running characteristics were comparable to Marklin c80 decoders of that time, the Tams additionally did offer programmable acceleration / deceleration rates but worst thing was the loco sometimes crawled away slowly when it was supposed to stand still. Next conversion was from Tams to Uhlenbrock 75200, first decoder with load regulation available for Marklin motors. The load regulation, even though far away from being perfect, was an improvement but the running characteristics did not satisfy me plus it was hard work to program CV's. So, next try: Uhlenbrock 76200. Much better, but still load regulation was less good than known from other conversions. I spent hours trying to find best CV settings but in the end I decided to convert it again. This time by removing the field coil, replacing it with an ESU magnet and adding a ZIMO MX630. Perfect, or better to say as good as can be expected considering the 3-pole armature in use.

Anyway, from your video it looks like one conversion is sufficient in your case ;)

When asking about SUSI modules I guess you are referring to sound modules? Sorry, I have no experience with them. The only modules I ever connected to SUSI ports were LISSY transmitters.

Best regards
Besra

Well, a couple of sound modules have arrived, along with the USB ladeadapter, wich i must say is cheap and easy to use, even if almost all the documentation is in German, not like the upgrade of mSD wich i cannot yet make sucessfully........
It works very well, here a sample with my old BR 44, now i will work with my BR 23