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Offline Sandyford  
#1 Posted : 01 December 2012 18:55:49(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
I have just extracted my Marklin equipment from long-term closet exile and set them up on a permanent layout designed around the Tannenbaum. After a little breaking in, the track is fine and my two digital locomotives, 37xx, run fine. Most of the stuff even stays on the track.

BUT ... my old-time favorite of all toys, my 3514, doesn't respond to commands. Here's what I know:

The decoder is set to 02

The lights go on and off with the function switch

After disassembly, the motor works fine with a 9V battery lead

The controller bit switches are all 'off'

No wheels are binding - everything turns freely

There are no cracks or loose wires in the controller. Having determined that the blue and yellow wires powered the DC motor, I touched the leads where they were soldered to the decoder and presto it seemed to move readily

And here's what I think:

That decoder / rectifier board looks expensive and hard to get.

Any ideas from anybody???? I love these trains - and I don't want to trash the decoder. I'm hoping that I'm doing something wrong. The instruction sheet is long gone.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

Sandy
Offline Yumgui  
#2 Posted : 01 December 2012 19:04:33(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Paris, France
Hi Sandy, and welcome to the forum ^^ !

Originally Posted by: Sandyford Go to Quoted Post
The instruction sheet is long gone.

While I have no knowledge of the decoder issues this loco may have, I can only upload the exploded diagram ...

Hope it helps,

Y Cool
File Attachment(s):
3514_explo.pdf (150kb) downloaded 59 time(s).
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline Ian555  
#3 Posted : 01 December 2012 19:07:15(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,990
Location: Scotland
Hi Sandy,

Welcome to the forum. ThumpUp

Ian.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ian555
Offline Sandyford  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2012 19:44:33(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Hi Sandy, and welcome to the forum ^^ !

Originally Posted by: Sandyford Go to Quoted Post
The instruction sheet is long gone.

While I have no knowledge of the decoder issues this loco may have, I can only upload the exploded diagram ...

Hope it helps,

Y Cool


Wow - Thank you! I hope you're enjoying Paris!

Offline Yumgui  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2012 20:43:23(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,659
Location: Paris, France
Sandy,
Born in LA, raised in NH, and living in Paris ... goin' east, so far so good ^^ ThumpUp

Plz let us know how your "extracted Marklin equipment from long-term closet exile" is going ... ^^

Yum Tongue
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline arconell  
#6 Posted : 02 December 2012 00:33:40(UTC)
arconell


Joined: 27/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Kreis Kleve, Germany
Hi Sandy,
You said that the (delta) decoder address is set for 02. You go on saying that the "controller bit switches are all 'off'" Assuming the controller bit switches are the 4 dipswitches on a little block on the board, than it is either one or the other. For digital address 02 you need to set the following: 1 = 0n, 2 = off, 3 = off, 4 = off

Here is a list of all 15 addresses available in Delta decoders with their settings: http://www.pallund.dk/deltaadd.htm

Hope it works out under the christmas tree,

Robert
Offline Sandyford  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2012 07:37:15(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: arconell Go to Quoted Post
Hi Sandy,
You said that the (delta) decoder address is set for 02. You go on saying that the "controller bit switches are all 'off'" Assuming the controller bit switches are the 4 dipswitches on a little block on the board, than it is either one or the other. For digital address 02 you need to set the following: 1 = 0n, 2 = off, 3 = off, 4 = off

Here is a list of all 15 addresses available in Delta decoders with their settings: http://www.pallund.dk/deltaadd.htm

Hope it works out under the christmas tree,

Robert


Thanks Robert. This locomotive appears to be a little unusual, from what little I know. It has a DC motor, and a six-bit decoder set to address 02. The decoder is part of the electronics in the tender. The other stuff in there must be some kind of rectifier because of the DC motor. There are analog versions of the 3514 and I don't know how to differentiate them when looking for information. Something in the DC motor controller just isn't working. That's what stumps me, and I don't know where to get a new decoder board with the rectifier necessary to run this motor.

Anyhow, this locomotive used to run just fine, and it does partially respond to commands from the condroller sent to address 02. So, I don't think it's a Delta decoder. And, like I said, the motor runs when I 'jump start" it with a 9V dry cell.

The controller dipswitches I'm speaking of are on the digital controller that hooks up to the transformer. They're all off. I think they always have been off.

Anyhow, thanks for your reply. This forum looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.

Sandy
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 02 December 2012 09:48:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,816
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Sandy!
Originally Posted by: Sandyford Go to Quoted Post
There are analog versions of the 3514
All 3514 should have been analogue "ex works", so I presume yours has been modified. Or maybe it's a 3614 (both have the operating number 2004), but that should have 8 DIP switches on the decoder.

Maybe it's a 6080 decoder - and the transistors that control the lights are still working, but maybe the transistors for the motor have died (or a wire broke off).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Paul59  
#9 Posted : 02 December 2012 10:56:43(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: South East
Originally Posted by: Sandyford Go to Quoted Post

There are no cracks or loose wires in the controller. Having determined that the blue and yellow wires powered the DC motor, I touched the leads where they were soldered to the decoder and presto it seemed to move readily


Hi Sandy,
If it worked when you touched the solder joints on the motor leads/decoder then it would suggest a 'dry' solder joint. This is unusual but not unheard of.
Depending on your soldering skills you could try remaking the joint - but be extremely careful especially as there are often other solder joints very close.

Paul
Marklin HO using M track. ECOS 50200 software updated to version 3.7.0
Offline Webmaster  
#10 Posted : 02 December 2012 11:15:25(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,036
The 3514 is indeed analog, so it could have been converted with a 3611/3611 board in the tender.

These old 3611/3614 have a chip called LME03, which is an ancient piece of silicon. It only recognizes the original Märklin-Motorola protocol.

I did an investigation many years ago regarding the switches back on the 6021 controller, see https://www.marklin-user...tal/6021dipsettings.html
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Sandyford  
#11 Posted : 03 December 2012 05:08:46(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
The 3514 is indeed analog, so it could have been converted with a 3611/3611 board in the tender.

These old 3611/3614 have a chip called LME03, which is an ancient piece of silicon. It only recognizes the original Märklin-Motorola protocol.

I did an investigation many years ago regarding the switches back on the 6021 controller, see https://www.marklin-user...tal/6021dipsettings.html


Thanks. It came to me, brand new from a hobby shop here (since gone), in a box that said "3514". But there's a decoder on the board in the tender. And I remember it being rather expensive at the time, too. The conversion looks to be factory fresh, and it operated for several years up until sometime after I stored it. Do you know if the factory sold the 3514 with the 3611 conversion already installed? Hmm. Thanks so much for your information. I'll go and research the 3611 conversion to see if I can perhaps find one to install in the tender. The motor appears to work. I'll take a picture of the board sometime soon and perhaps you'll recognize it if I send it to you.

Thanks again.

Sandy
Offline jvuye  
#12 Posted : 03 December 2012 07:08:46(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,850
Location: South Western France
Hi Sandy
Definitely... a picture of the whole thing would help solve the riddle!
I'll be looking for it.
Till later!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Sandyford  
#13 Posted : 04 December 2012 07:37:26(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Hi Sandy
Definitely... a picture of the whole thing would help solve the riddle!
I'll be looking for it.
Till later!
Cheers



Well, since I'm new here, I haven't figured out how to post a pic yet. BUT .... there are three high resolution pictures in my online gallery. The board is indeed marked 3611, so I'm starting to understand that I don't have a 3415 as stated on the box. Funny thing is though that the box says 3415 AND it indicates with a red imprint on the picture of the tender that the whole thing is digital, and that's what came in the box.

The locomotive running number is indeed 2004.

So, if it's a 3611 decoder, how might I get power to the motor???

The pictures are at this link, and thanks so much for any help: http://sandyford.smugmug...415-3615/26885154_8ZB8xt
Offline Webmaster  
#14 Posted : 04 December 2012 20:19:29(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,036
Well, the decoder clearly states "3611", so it seems like my guess was spot on...
The soldering of the wires certainly also show some "layman" signs, so this is converted from a 3514 to "3614" indeed.

The driving wheels of this loco should turn really lightly compared to other M models, so if you very gently try to turn the wheels - they should turn easily.

If they don't, you may have the same problem as I had with my 3511 (converted to "3611") - a stuck gearbox...
I had some dirt & stale oil in the gearbox (wheels not turning freely), but that was fixed by cleaning it up. I even disassembled it...

If the wheels turn quite freely as they should, the motor could have died or the motor power transistors have died due to a shorted motor...

The motor is a Faulhaber 1319, which I believe is still available from SB-Modellbau...






You can add pics by pressing the "Attach" button to upload pics to your posts...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Sandyford  
#15 Posted : 04 December 2012 22:55:33(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Well, the decoder clearly states "3611", so it seems like my guess was spot on...
The soldering of the wires certainly also show some "layman" signs, so this is converted from a 3514 to "3614" indeed.

The driving wheels of this loco should turn really lightly compared to other M models, so if you very gently try to turn the wheels - they should turn easily.

If they don't, you may have the same problem as I had with my 3511 (converted to "3611") - a stuck gearbox...
I had some dirt & stale oil in the gearbox (wheels not turning freely), but that was fixed by cleaning it up. I even disassembled it...

If the wheels turn quite freely as they should, the motor could have died or the motor power transistors have died due to a shorted motor...

The motor is a Faulhaber 1319, which I believe is still available from SB-Modellbau...






You can add pics by pressing the "Attach" button to upload pics to your posts...


Thanks. The motor seems to work. Your input very much appreciated. The 'layman' soldering wasn't apparent to me but that solves the mystery. There is a board I can replace - I found the part number someplace - would you suggest a place to order it???? Thanks!
Offline eduard71  
#16 Posted : 06 December 2012 03:28:07(UTC)
eduard71

Chile   
Joined: 27/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Santiago
Hi Sandy,
This board is one of the early ones and works like a 6080 but it is specially tuned for the Faulhaber motor that this loco has. If you are going to change the board you will be surprised with the price (about 214US$) See this ebay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item35c097cc15


A better and also cheaper solution could be buying the Luessi Hobby solution, which is a board specially made for this locomotive that allows you to connect any kind of decoder with a 8 pin connector, you can add for example an ESU decoder multiprotocol or MFX and the results will be very good, the board plus the decoder should not be more that 70$+shipping.

http://luessi.ch/shop/ca...ath=2&products_id=54


Hope this helps you repairing your locomotive.

Regards
Eduardo



You can add pics by pressing the "Attach" button to upload pics to your posts...


Thanks. The motor seems to work. Your input very much appreciated. The 'layman' soldering wasn't apparent to me but that solves the mystery. There is a board I can replace - I found the part number someplace - would you suggest a place to order it???? Thanks!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by eduard71
Offline Hoffmann  
#17 Posted : 06 December 2012 04:21:42(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Sandy,,

Have you tried setting the Decoder to a differend Address?

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline Sandyford  
#18 Posted : 07 December 2012 00:40:51(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: Hoffmann Go to Quoted Post

Hello Sandy,,

Have you tried setting the Decoder to a differend Address?

Martin


I tried a few different ones, same outcome. Thanks though.

Sandy
Offline Sandyford  
#19 Posted : 11 December 2012 01:51:35(UTC)
Sandyford

United States   
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Monterey
Originally Posted by: Sandyford Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hoffmann Go to Quoted Post

Hello Sandy,,

Have you tried setting the Decoder to a differend Address?

Martin


I tried a few different ones, same outcome. Thanks though.

Sandy

Thanks to all of you - I gave up and sent the locomotive in for repair. Sure enough, the decoder board has failed. I should have it back soon and I'll post a picture!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Sandyford
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