Joined: 04/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: , Florida
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All,
After all the new discussions around the MS, I finally broke down and bought the 60652. Using the 6001 transformer from my 6021 setup, I got the 1.9va. Right off the bat, I was able to run 4 locos with lights and sound, and I have to admit, that I really like the way the MS works.
The only negative that I can say about the setup, is that now I cannot use my Postal wagon (49962)with the same address of the loco I run it with. There is no way to change the PW address and if you change the Loco’s address to the PW default, that does not work either. (To bad there was no provision for consisting built into the 60652.)
But this brings up another question.
I see that M* is offering MFX upgrade kits for locos with the high performance motors.
So, if you upgraded two locos with these kits, and can not set the addresses manually, how would the MS or the CS for that matter be able to tell them apart?
Regards,
Frank
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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My conclusion from disccusions read so far (Märklin don't tell anything) is something like this. Regarding mfx decoders only:
1. Central regularly asks locos it has in its list, if it't still there, and if the registrered identity (serial number) is correct. It uses an interal "address" to do this. If not correct, it understands it's a new loco present, and assigns a new internal address for this serial number. If no answer, it assumes that the loco will show up later.
2. In some way central also asks if there are any locos present that have not been called for. If so it assigns an internal address for the communication, and gets all info from the decoder about serial number, function layout and so forth. In case of two new foreign locos at the same time, it's a little more difficult; however, not impossible to solve.
This goes on with rather low frequency, assuring that there is always an interal address to communicate the high speed info, like speed and funtions etc.
So it doesn't really matter if you have bought two identical locos, or it happens that your friends loco had the same address when it last was run; each decoder wordwide has a unique serial number, which makes it possible to identify them.
/Lars
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Joined: 04/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: , Florida
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Thanks Lars.
That makes sense, in the long run this will be a nice feature.
Regards,
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I am using the 1.2VA version of the MS, it can run 2-3 (3 slows it down).. and I'm waiting for the CS to upgrade.
I currently only have regular Digital locs, but I just pre-ordered the 39834 with the mfx and I can't wait to see how well it integrates, and how you can control the behavior thru the controller without ever opening up the loc.. I wonder, do you think Marklin will make upgrades for the majority of digital decoders? Seems like they would have announced this already if they were going to.
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Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 04/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: , Florida
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 Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario
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Hello Frank,
All the new upgrades of the decoders are in the New Marklin Catalog (The Book) however delivery of these upgrades are in the 2nd and 3rd quarter of this year(2005)
Martin |
marklin-eh |
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Wow!, so other than the "autoregister" of the loc and auto address, is there any additional function to the mfx locs? I wonder if it's going to be worth the $150+ cost (I'm sure it's $120 + hr labor at least)
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Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: Eindhoven,
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I have been asking myself the same question... To me the advantages of "upgrading" an "old" 6090* lok to mfx are rather small. It may get more silent, because the pulse rate is higher, as compared to 6090* equiped loks. I still doubt if this justifies the high cost...
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IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago... |
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Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
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M-track with a CS2. |
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Joined: 04/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: , Florida
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The 60922 are out and in the dealer's stores. I was at another M* dealer on Saturday and he had several in stock. The difference between the new ones and the ones that are out is that the new ones have sound the 60922 does not have sound.
Regards,
Frank
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 Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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The 60932 sound version is due out in the 3rd quarter, according to my sources. |
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Anyone have any opinions about the LokSound3 models being sold for mfx? Are they 100% Marklin compatible or will you run into trouble with them vs using the Marklin ones?
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Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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 Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sam
<br />Anyone have any opinions about the LokSound3 models being sold for mfx? Are they 100% Marklin compatible or will you run into trouble with them vs using the Marklin ones?
Haven't tried yet, but since ESU makes the mfx decoders for Märklin, they should be 100% compatible. |
K-G / H0 and Z model train user |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />The 60932 sound version is due out in the 3rd quarter, according to my sources Those new mfx - circuits look nice. Unfortunately no word in M's data if engine sounds are speed-syncronized. But since there's also no connection (sensor) to the drivetrain visible ... [xx(] John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Wow! I just found out the Mfx decoders are going for $150+ each! too much for me... When I get my 39834 I'll see if they run all that much better, if I can't tell the difference, then my remaining locs will stay digital fx.
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Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dudok12
<br />I have been asking myself the same question... To me the advantages of "upgrading" an "old" 6090* lok to mfx are rather small. It may get more silent, because the pulse rate is higher, as compared to 6090* equiped loks. I still doubt if this justifies the high cost...
Totally true. I have been converting a few locos for customers, using loksound-mfx (145€), and lokpilot v.2.0 (30€), the last one in DCC/MOT and DCC only versions. You know what? PWM freq is the same in v2.0 lokpilots and loksoundmfx. And M 5* locos become very, very silky smooth and very silent, so, forget about lokpilot mfx (60€) and use the also new lokpilot for half the price and all the qualities..... If you don't care about mfx but do care about sound, you can also consider loksound3 which has all the great qualities of the loksoundmfx (except the arguable feedback) and costs 100€..... Luis
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Originally posted by Sam:
Wow! I just found out the Mfx decoders are going for $150+ each! too much for me... When I get my 39834 I'll see if they run all that much better, if I can't tell the difference, then my remaining locs will stay digital fx.
Where are you shopping? 60922 decoder at LokShop is €70.95 vs. €64.99 for the 60902. only €6 more. Now if you want sound, I agree that the LokSound Mfx are rather pricey. The 60932 sound "Nachrüstsatz" will be €127.70 on top of the 60922, as I understand it, and that is a bit much for a sound module and a speaker. |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />60932 will be €127.70 and that is a bit much for a sound module and a speaker
Ron, I agree with you. More than that, seems that sound is NOT speed-syncronized. Thus it's simply too expensive ... [xx(] John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,687 Location: United Kingdom
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by john black<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />60932 will be €127.70 and that is a bit much for a sound module and a speaker
Ron, I agree with you. More than that, seems that sound is NOT speed-syncronized. Thus it's simply too expensive ... [xx(] John I agreed with john,it was too expensive! |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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John: I've re-read the catalog entry for the 6093x. It is a full decoder, not an "add on" as I inferred from the "Nachrüstsatz" name, therefore one could expect that it is speed dependent as are the ESU loksound decoders from which it is derived. If you follow the "Marklin way" and buy a 60921 set to upgrade your older non-high efficeincy engine and then replace that decoder with the 6093x, it is very expensive, however if you buy just the 6093x (60931 for steam, 60932 for diesel, 60933 for electric) and the needed motor parts (armature, magnet, and motorshield) it is not all that expensive. If you already have an HE motor, all you need is the 6093x and you get the mfx decoder with sound. Not really that bad. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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As a matter of fact, I just got a 60921 set to upgrade the Marklin 3358 red E103 I recently acquired on eBay. I'll post how it goes and how it reacts to my IB. |
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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thanks, that would be great! |
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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I was planning to put a LokSound and motor upgrade in a Be 6/8 III (Marklin 3356) tonight (I also just received the magnet for the motor upgrade) but I think I'll do the mfx in the red 103 instead tonight. I am curious about the performance of that decoder with the IB, and I'll be on a business trip all next week. |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Ron: ALL my new engines are factory original with nice sounds [^][^][^]. After operating my trains in analog mode since 1958 (when I was seven) I've jumped on the digital bandwagon very late (2004) - and then there were SO MANY nice locos available WITH sounds already ! Thus it simply didn't make much sense for me to still buy one of those first generation soundless digis. Overtaken by electronic evolution they frequently can be seen sitting on dealers shelves - nailed down forever due their high price tags  . Only few dealers were so clever to discount'em in time ... No, I'd welcome such new digital decoder with sounds (the 60932 Diesel version) for my beautyful old analog Swedish GM/ASEA XP800 NYC Gas-Turbine Loco. Perhaps ... [:p] John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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To be honest, sound never really excited me. I have converted a few (V200 diesel with a loksound and a BR003, also with a loksound) and acquired a BR18 with sound, but I still run and love my silent loks just as much.
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Well - I like it cause it's more realistic playing. Especially chuff-chuff sounds on steamers  John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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 Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Hi all, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: originally posted by John Black: Well - I like it cause it's more realistic playing. Especially chuff-chuff sounds on steamers It seems once again we agree John,besides a steamloc with sound I have two E-locs that make very convincing sounds [:p] and I must admit it all makes playing more pleasureable. Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by John:
Overtaken by electronic evolution they frequently can be seen sitting on dealers shelfes - nailed down forever due their high price tags . Only few dealers were so clever to discount'em in time ...
I'm still waiting for a pricecut on a very nice crocodile(M 39561) in brown livery ,that a local dealer still has on his shelves [xx(][xx(]. Best Regards Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />I'm still waiting for a pricecut on a very nice crocodile (M 39561) in brown livery that a local dealer still has on his shelves [xx(][xx(]
Guus: Since it's a buyer's market ... YOU will win in the long run  John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Done the conversion. I started with a 3358 E103 in the red livery:  Here it is opened up to get started:  Motor ready for conversion:  Conversion done:  And here it is in my station:  Conversion was identical to the 60901 conversion. The wires are the same color scheme. It runs beautifully with the IB, but I can't get it into programming mode with my IB. I have the Uhlenbrock instructions, but the lok won't go into programming mode (blinking lights). Anyone have experience with this? |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Beautyful work, Ron - congratulations [:p]!
John
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I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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 Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 959 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />It runs beautifully with the IB, but I can't get it into programming mode with my IB. I have the Uhlenbrock instructions, but the lok won't go into programming mode (blinking lights). Anyone have experience with this?
Yes. I recently did a 60921 conversion on the swedish lok from the 28703 set. I don't remember any particular problems programming it, but of course the special procedure described by Uhlenbrock (going out of programming mode while pressing the reverse switch) has to be followed.
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Congratulations Ron .Nice pictures. Once again ,that station looks awesome [:p][:p] Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Good work Ron. One day I'll try my own hand at this kind of work, and save a few dollars and some time at the dealer's shop! |
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Sam: Thanks. It's really not that difficult once you get over the fear of starting to do surgery on a lok. Now if I can just get past this programming thing. I guess I could take it to my 6021 layout and use the Marklin instructions, but I'd really like to figure out what the problem is with progrmming it with the IB. I HOPE someone is not going to tell me to remove all other loks from my layout...that would be a pain. Including my storage yard, I have over 20 loks sitting on the track. |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />I HOPE someone is not going to tell me to remove all other loks from my layout...that would be a pain - over 20 loks sitting on the track
Ron: Why not build a short test track - independant from layout - just for servicing and programming. I have such, it's very useful John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: ,
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So have I. The test track can handle every mode that is possible on my layout: IB control, analog control, MS control and ESU control. Just playing with some switches. And the testtrack is a round going "lay-out", so the loco's can really "go around". And it is NOT connected to the main lay-out, just to prevent any shortcitcuit.
Olav
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Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Or you can buy one of those test track pieces that allow you to run your loc in place. |
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Guess I'll have to consider setting up a test track. I have a programming track on the layout, but my "test track" on my workbench is strictly analog, just to see if things power up |
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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You could isolate a small section of track which can be switched on or off from the main layout.
David |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
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That is tricky David. If by accident a loco is running from one section to the other you'll have a major problem. The best is to have a section which is 100% isolated form the main lay-out.
Olav
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olav
<br />So have I. The test track can handle every mode that is possible on my layout: IB control, analog control, MS control and ESU control. Just playing with some switches. And the testtrack is a round going "lay-out", so the loco's can really "go around". And it is NOT connected to the main lay-out, just to prevent any shortcitcuit.
Olav
And here is a picture of my test track. http://home.zonnet.nl/bnlrail/p...besturing/testbaan_1.jpgOlav
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olav
<br />... here is a picture of my test track
Olav: Test track ?????????? - this is a complete TEST LAYOUT, you lucky guy !!! (mine is really just a track - about 70 cm only, that's all ... [xx(]) Well, is that an opened MS on the left side ? John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
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Mine test track is almost the same. |
M-track with a CS2. |
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 111
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by john black<br /> Olav: Test track ?????????? - this is a complete TEST LAYOUT, you lucky guy !!! (mine is really just a track - about 70 cm only, that's all ... [xx(]) Well, is that an opened MS on the left side ? John No, sorry John. At the back is one of the loopback units waiting for a modification. And as proof that my MS is still intact http://home.zonnet.nl/bnlrail/p...sturing/intellibox_1.jpg And yes, I'm very pleased with the testtrack. Olav
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olav
<br />And as proof that my MS is still intact
Ha Ha Ha - M's warranty department will love you for that ... Nice switchboard you have there John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 111
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Great equipment, Olav [:p] - many thanks for that link !
John
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I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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Great pictures and excellent control panel.
David |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Well, my lok programming problem is solved. I just received my ESU LokProgrammer with version 2.4.7 of the software. When I loaded it, it immediately upgraded to 2.4.8 and it SPEAKS MARKLIN MFX! Really easy screen interface for programming. Works like a charm. |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Ron: Glad for you it needed only the newest software John |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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