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Offline charles Sharpe  
#1 Posted : 22 September 2012 10:21:41(UTC)
charles Sharpe


Joined: 21/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,432
Location: NORFOLK UK
Hello.

If I was to buy a new CS 2 /60215 which transformer does it need. I am useing the 60061 for the 60213.

Charles.
CHARLES SHARPE
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 22 September 2012 11:19:38(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
60061 will be fine for the 60215.

You can use the 60101 100va power supply, which allows a maximum of 5 amps of output current, but Marklin do not recommend you use 5 amps output with H0 trains.

BTW, they are not transformers, but rather they are switchmode power supplies. This means that the power supply will maintain it's output voltage when under heavy or full load.
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Offline tulit  
#3 Posted : 22 September 2012 15:42:04(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

BTW, they are not transformers, but rather they are switchmode power supplies. This means that the power supply will maintain it's output voltage when under heavy or full load.


Not exactly true. A step down switch mode regulator like these ones simply means that you're realizing a voltage step down by "chopping" the input on/off rapidly. By then sufficiently filtering this output, you then get an approximation of the average voltage of the chopped up input (i.e. voltage in * duty cycle %).

They have feedback networks to ensure that the output is constantly tracking a reference and adjust the duty cycle to compensate for things like varying input voltages. But if this feedback control is poorly designed (i.e. simply can't track error quick enough), there's no guarantee they behave any better.

The real big plus is cost, size and weight.
Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 22 September 2012 16:09:24(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,701
Location: United Kingdom
I use the 60061 work fine with 60213.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline FrankF  
#5 Posted : 23 September 2012 16:41:40(UTC)
FrankF

Denmark   
Joined: 18/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 113
Hi Charles

Just a little info from me :

I use a Marklin CS2 60215 with a 60101 Watt Transformer to power the H0-Layout i have.

All cables going to the tracks as been changed from Cable 0,25mm thickness to 0,75 mm thickness on my 40 m2 Layout
and i have been driving my trains now for the last 8 months without any kind of problems regarding to the CS2 or tracks.

With the CS2 (60215) you will also be able to use your 6061 transformer (60 Watt) to.
CS3+ 60216 ( SW:2.5.2 ) / CS2 60215 ( SW:4.3.0 ) / MS2 60653/57 ( SW:4.28 ) / MS1 60652 ( SW:1.8 AP ) / 60883 S88 LINK ( SW:1.1 )
MDT 3 (SW 3.6.0) - HW: ( 60970 / 60971 / 60801 ) & ESU LOKPROGRAMMER ( SW 5.2.12 ) / ESU HW: 53451 / 53900 / 53901
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Offline cfpedro  
#6 Posted : 24 September 2012 20:52:56(UTC)
cfpedro

Portugal   
Joined: 18/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Setubal, Portugal
Hi Charles,
I bought a 60215 last week and I'm using a 60061 power supply. My layout is small ( and temporary layed on the floor ) as I'm new to digital. The 60061 has been good so far.
Carlos
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 28 September 2012 00:11:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,579
Location: Paris, France
Hello Charles, Hello Forum friends
I am also using a 60101 with my CS2 (60214 with galavanic separation) since almost a year and its working very well, full 5A, no side effects caused by 5A on my HO layout thanks to my 2,5mm² feeder line and thanks to a very intelligent overcurrent sensing in the CS2. No damage to any device, decoder, wheel, relay contact, etc.
Previously, I was using a transformer and the voltage fluctuations were noticeable but not anymore with the switching power supplies (voltage is regulated as on the ESU's CS2 equivalent) .
The advantage is also to do without any booster in most cases.
I tried in the past CS1 with a transformer, CS1 with a PC power supply, CS2 with a transformer, a 60061 and now a 60101.
Clearly there is a HUGE difference between a transformer and a switching power supply (those I tested have a regulated voltage output: 19 V)
Cheers
Jean
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Offline charles Sharpe  
#8 Posted : 04 October 2012 19:34:15(UTC)
charles Sharpe


Joined: 21/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,432
Location: NORFOLK UK
Hello.

What is the difference between a transformer and switch supply. Also what is Galavanic separation

Charles.
CHARLES SHARPE
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 07 October 2012 09:01:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,289
Originally Posted by: charles Sharpe Go to Quoted Post
Hello.

What is the difference between a transformer and switch supply. Also what is Galavanic separation

Charles.


Transformer has AC power while rectifiers has DC.
AC power has waveform while DC has directform.
AC power has sometimes power detonation which makes CS2 or MS2 disturbs.
With an rectifier DC you have directform power to CS2 and MS2 which makes safer contact.

Electroplating(galvanization) is generally used to protect against corrosion.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 07 October 2012 09:44:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: charles Sharpe Go to Quoted Post
What is the difference between a transformer and switch supply.
A switching-mode power supply has stabilized DC on the output side. A transformer has unstabilized AC (varying voltage) on the output side - and it's AC, so 100 times per second there is no output voltage at all (*) so the CS2 has to take the power from internal buffers leading to a strongly varying track voltage if load varies.
A 60 VA power supply is good for permanent 60 VA track power (†) while a 60 VA transformer is good for only about 42 VA permanent track power and will overheat and switch off at higher loads.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...itched-mode_power_supply

(*) 120 times for USA and some other areas
(†) "track power" here includes the power consumed by the CS2, so effective track power will be a little lower

Originally Posted by: charles Sharpe Go to Quoted Post
Also what is Galavanic separation
Galvanically isolated electrical circuits have no connection. You can safely make a connection at any single point from the first circuit to any single point in the second circuit.

Neither CS2 60213 nor Booster 60173 have galvanic isolation. To prevent problems, you have to isolate centre rail and outer rails between CS2 and Booster. Very impractical with M track, very impractical for any finished layout.

If either CS2 or Booster have galvanic isolation, separation of outer rails is no longer required. Since Märklin replaced all 60173 with newer 60174 (with galvanic isolation), one CS2 without that isolation can be used on a layout without problems.
New CS2 also have galvanic isolation, but this is no advantage (unless you have one old 60173 still around).

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline GSRR  
#11 Posted : 27 November 2012 00:33:31(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
An interesting little side note.


Steve Jobs

Chapter 6

“Next came the power supply. Digital geeks like Wozniak paid little attention to something so analog and mundane, but Jobs decided it was a key component. In particular he wanted—as he would his entire career—to provide power in a way that avoided the need for a fan. Fans inside computers were not Zen-like; they distracted. He dropped by Atari to consult with Alcorn, who knew old-fashioned electrical engineering. “Al turned me on to this brilliant guy named Rod Holt, who was a chain-smoking Marxist who had been through many marriages and was an expert on everything,” Jobs recalled. Like Manock and others meeting Jobs for the first time, Holt took a look at him and was skeptical. “I’m expensive,” Holt said. Jobs sensed he was worth it and said that cost was no problem. “He just conned me into working,” said Holt, who ended up joining Apple full-time. 

Instead of a conventional linear power supply, Holt built one like those used in oscilloscopes. It switched the power on and off not sixty times per second, but thousands of times; this allowed it to store the power for far less time, and thus throw off less heat. “That switching power supply was as revolutionary as the Apple II logic board was,” Jobs later said. “Rod doesn’t get a lot of credit for this in the history books, but he should. Every computer now uses switching power supplies, and they all rip off Rod’s design.” For all of Wozniak’s brilliance, this was not something he could have done. “I only knew vaguely what a switching power supply was,” Woz admitted.”

Excerpt From: Walter, Isaacson. “Steve Jobs.” Simon & Schuster



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Offline GSRR  
#12 Posted : 27 November 2012 01:10:39(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
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