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Kevin Weis		#1 Posted : 26 December 2011 22:04:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Hi all, Has been awhile since I've been on here but I've been thiking of converting some locomotives that have an old c80 decoder with the typical three pole drum motor to the newer 5 pole permanant magnet motor but keeping the old c 80 decoder. Are these compatable? I rarely here of anybody doing this but I don't see where this would be a problem. Just thought they would run a lot smoother. Any thoughts appreciated. Regards, Kevin
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mvd71		#2 Posted : 26 December 2011 22:53:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,916 Location: Auckland,		Hi Kevin, The mod you a suggesting will not work, because the decoder you have is specifically designed to drive a AC motor. The output characteristics will not work with the DC motor. You can fit the old style 5 pole armature (610030) from: toottoot to your existing AC motor and it will improve the running, but it will never match the latest generation of kits from marklin. I would suggest you try a 60760 kit if you want to get a good improvement without too much expenditure. Cheers.... Mike.
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H0		#3 Posted : 26 December 2011 23:16:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,432 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Originally Posted by: Kevin Weis I rarely here of anybody doing this but I don't see where this would be a problem. The 6080 decoder has three motor connections made for AC/DC motors. DC motors only have two motor connections. While the 6080 decoder can be modified to work with DC motors, I don't think it's worth the trouble. You still have a decoder without load regulation, without acceleration and braking delay, without adjustable maximum speed.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Kevin Weis		#4 Posted : 27 December 2011 19:04:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Ok, thanks! I'll go with the 60760 kit or equalvent as suggested. Regards, Kevin
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Kevin Weis		#5 Posted : 10 January 2012 02:40:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Part of this is another thread but I went ahead and tried a 610030 5 pole armature (AC) with the c80 decoder. Not imprerssed. Ran a little smoother but became twice as sensitive to grade changes both uphill and downhill ( fast downhill - slow uphill, real slow). Can see why this combination was never used. I was warned. Ok the 60760 is next.
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river6109		#6 Posted : 10 January 2012 03:19:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,873 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Kevin, It is a hard upwards curve learning process and an easy down disaster route. This forum helps to ease and strengthen the learning process and hopefully prevents you from disasters. All in all you are getting VIP advice here and the story goes like: We've told you so John Happy New Year
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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mvd71		#7 Posted : 10 January 2012 06:15:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,916 Location: Auckland,		Originally Posted by: Kevin Weis Part of this is another thread but I went ahead and tried a 610030 5 pole armature (AC) with the c80 decoder. Not imprerssed. Ran a little smoother but became twice as sensitive to grade changes both uphill and downhill ( fast downhill - slow uphill, real slow). Can see why this combination was never used. I was warned. Ok the 60760 is next. It's not a complete disaster Kevin. You could use a lokpilot and hamo magnet with this to get excellent results. Cheers... Mike.
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river6109		#8 Posted : 10 January 2012 09:42:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,873 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: mvd71 Originally Posted by: Kevin Weis Part of this is another thread but I went ahead and tried a 610030 5 pole armature (AC) with the c80 decoder. Not imprerssed. Ran a little smoother but became twice as sensitive to grade changes both uphill and downhill ( fast downhill - slow uphill, real slow). Can see why this combination was never used. I was warned. Ok the 60760 is next. It's not a complete disaster Kevin. You could use a lokpilot and hamo magnet with this to get excellent results. Cheers... Mike. I'm not so sure about that. I've tried it for a customer and had no satisfying results compared to a 5 pole conversion set. John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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Kevin Weis		#9 Posted : 10 January 2012 19:11:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Looks like the 60760 is a no-brainer. I'll be putting it in a 3312 that is a partially fried circut board anyways. I don't understand what the circut board was used for in this model as the reverse unit is control by the direct analog voltage???. Looks like maybe for some control of the headlights. Nothing to lose here. Regards, Kevin
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Webmaster		#10 Posted : 10 January 2012 21:43:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		The little circuit board with diodes was used to get a silent DC pulse to the relay instead of the noisy AC pulse we had in the the older locos. The 33xx series of locos had these.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Kevin Weis		#11 Posted : 12 January 2012 21:02:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Thanks, Webmaster! Got the 60760 in on the 3312. The two headlights blew out but I had the orange wire connected wrong to ground instead of the headlights . Could this have done it? I saw the lightes flash for a second, maybe the volatage got doubled or something from the wrong connection above. Maybe the original bulbs are the wrong voltage required by the 60760?? Anyways otherwise the locomotive performs well with the new dc motor. Regards, Kevin
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RayF		#12 Posted : 12 January 2012 21:32:05(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Hi Kevin, 33xx locos are fitted with low voltage bulbs (about 3V). They need to be changed to appropriate 18 or 20 volt bulbs when the loco is converted to Digital. Of course I always forget when doing the conversion and blow the bulbs just like you did!
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Kevin Weis		#13 Posted : 13 January 2012 16:38:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Ray, thanks! That makes sense. I saw in the manual for the 60760 conversion kit where it identifies two bulbs used, 610080 & 610040. Guess I will need to improvise a holder for these bulbs. I love a challenge . Is it better to ground the bulbs directly to the frame or use the orange wire ground return from the decoder? Regards, Kevin
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RayF		#14 Posted : 13 January 2012 17:06:56(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Originally Posted by: Kevin Weis Ray, thanks! That makes sense. I saw in the manual for the 60760 conversion kit where it identifies two bulbs used, 610080 & 610040. Guess I will need to improvise a holder for these bulbs. I love a challenge . Is it better to ground the bulbs directly to the frame or use the orange wire ground return from the decoder? Regards, Kevin Always better to use the Orange wire if at all possible, as this will reduce flickering of the bulbs.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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intruder		#15 Posted : 18 January 2012 20:26:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway		The Orange Wire is a rectified plus (approx 22 Volt) and must never be connected to the locomotive chassis.
		Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
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Kevin Weis		#16 Posted : 18 January 2012 22:26:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Maryland		Thanks Ray & Svein, I'm waiting for my 610080 bulbs to show up so I can connect to the decoder and see if this all works out. So far the decoder works good with the new dc motor in place. I have sharp grades on my layout (under construction) and the speed is perfectly even up grade and down grade . Regards, Kevin
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