hi

i have just taken my first step into the world of model railroad buying the following model by roco.

i know that this is a marklin forum but my question is about era and period rather than make.
after reading a lot of information about Swiss locomotives and about the sbb i'm am still confused.

the starter set i bough depicts era II typical Swiss express train.
as i understand Swiss locomotive were painted green from 1928 and on.

my questions are:

1. does this set depicts an express train from 1924-1928 (the loco being brown) ?
2. were there any brown Ae 3/6 II after 1928 ?
3. what would be a typical freight stock for this locomotive ?

thanks and sorry for the long post.

Edited by user 04 October 2010 20:06:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Welcome to the forum vtt. I'm sure there will be someone who can answer your questions. A couple of our members - Unholz and MikeC - are very knowledgeable regarding Swiss trains, and I'm sure they can help.

Hello new member. I am also a new member and live in Israel too! It would be nice to contact each other. My email: davkumi@netvision.net.il

Hi vtt,

Welcome to the forum.

Ian.

Welcome to the forum from me too, vtt.

Renato

Welcome to the forum! If I am not mistaken, this is an Ae 3/6II. This means there was a total of six axles whose only three were powered. On your picture, the powered axles are easily distinguishable by the size of the wheels and the bars linking the three main wheels. The non-powered axles are the small ones. The designation II indicates the type.

60 locomotives were ordered by the SBB and placed in service between 1923 and 1926. They were used on the main lines of the SBB, after the completion of the electrification of the Gotthard line. At the same time were also in service Ae 3/6 I, Ae 3/5 and Ae 3/6 III.

Brown is the original color. Most of them were repainted in SBB standard green in the late twenties.

As for the passengers cars I am not totally sure. You have two 3rd class cars. As far as I know, the 3rd class (the least comfortable) was abandoned in the late forties, earlier fifties. Thus my best guess these cars must have been in service around 1945-1955. It's not impossible that an Ae 3/6II pulled such a convoy, but most likely they would have been pulled by a more recent locomotive such as Re 4/4I or Ae 4/7.

Such cars can still be seen in Switzerland, but only in historical special trains.

Pierre

Hey Tal:

I have made a few searches on the Internet. You will find interesting results if you go to Google.ch. Type for example Ae 3/6 and you will received many hits.

The only problem is that most of the info are in German, some in French. I am sure you can find what you need. SBB was founded in 1902 from different small companies and when the company commemorated its hundred years of existence in 2002, I am sure a few books must have been published.

Look at this website for more info: http://www.1902-2002.ch/...4_history/default_d.shtm and . Click especially on the link "Start History Channel". You will have in a few pictures a panorama of their history. Also have a look here: http://www.sbbhistoric.c...048F1C3F&o_lang_id=8

You can look also have a look to the website of the Transportation Museum in Lucerne: http://www.verkehrshaus.ch/en
If you have the chance to go to Switzerland, it's a MUST to visit it. Here is probably one the best source of information about trains in 1920-1930. You can see in particular the legendary Crocodile (Ce 6/8III and Be 6/8) and a model train of the Gotthard line.

To my knowledge, there were three axles passengers in service in 1920 - 1930. See this model car for a pretty good representation: http://www.roundhouse.ch...afik/Ruco/Ruco_15006.jpg , http://www.roundhouse.ch...ik/Ruco/Ruco_15003-M.jpg and http://www.roundhouse.ch...Ruco/SBB_D3-Eigenbau.jpg

There were also more modern coaches like this set produced by Marklin in 2001 http://archiv.maerklin.d...mp;wishednumber=00790-03 . It's not produced any more but you can find it for sale on Ebay.

I hope it helps a little bit.

Pierre

Edited by user 11 January 2011 03:17:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi, Tal!

That's what I would expect from a train set.

Train compositions from Märklin starter sets are not always accurate. But I can't say anything about Roco.

SBB is not my area of expertise, but in Germany it takes decades until all locos get repainted with the current paint scheme.

I don't know if the train is prototypically correct.

Maybe more SBB experts will look at this thread if you change the title of your first post to something like "Is Roco SBB era II trainset prototypically correct?"

a lot of useful information and fast reply .
I'm glad i found this forum.

Pierre. i appreciate the effort you take into answering my questions.

Guus. the books/magazine references are great. I'll try to get a hold of them.


thank you all for the help.

Tal,

Let me begin by welcoming you to the forum.

Your Roco Set depicts a historical train. The locomotives were painted brown until 1928/1929. After that point, newly delivered loks were painted green and older loks were repainted at their next scheduled major revision (R3). The coaches are UIC coaches from the mid to late 1930s to 1940. The logos on the coaches are more modern, most likely from the early to mid 1960s. After 1964, these coaches would have received their UIC numbers 51 85 XX - XX XXX-X underneath the SBB + CFF logo.

Lok 10408 was initially based in Olten. The next year, it was transferred to Rorschach and was likely used for Express trains to Zuerich and back. By 1939, the lok was once again back in Olten, where the lok was likely used to pull passenger and freight trains to Zuerich, Biel, Bern, Basel or Luzern. The loks continued to operate out of the Olten depot until the early 1970s.

The appropriate coach for a 1930s consist would be Roco's 44200B/44466
see: http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Roco_Wagen/SBB_ric.html
You can also choose other coaches with Era (Epoch) II or III markings.
The 45916 Set contains four historical coaches that are type appropriate for a SBB domestic train in the 1930s.

If you want more information about Swiss loks and coaches, there are the books SBB Lokomotiven und Triebwagen and SBB Reisezug und Gepaeckwagen which were published by the SBB. The book on loks is still available from SBBHistoric.ch (Shop). The book on coaches can likely be found on eBay and in some used book shops and dealers. It gives the date of production and other details for most rolling stock of the SBB.

There was a special edition magazine/book about the Ae 3/6 II from loki. Check loki.ch (Shop). There are Loki Spezials on Ae 3/6II and on 4 Axled Passesnger Coaches 1912-1929 to name a few. Text is in German, but the photos are universal.

Freight stock could be any Swiss or international car from the 1920s/30s. As the Ae 3/6II was used for regional traffic, most likely it would have pulled domestic cars with maybe a few international cars that were going to their local destinations or returning to the larger freight yards for forwarding to their foreign destination. Brawa, Liliput, Roco and others have a wide selection of older freight cars. There are also specialty manufacturers like AKU/Born and Friho who alter models to reproduce classic variants or make small production models.

I presume that you are modelling 2 rail DC or digital DCC. There is also a Yahoo Groups Roco Forum, a Swiss Rail and a Swiss Rail Modelling Forum that may be of interest to you. This forum is mainly about Maerklin (3 Rail AC) but many of us also have other brands, especially coaches and cars which can easily be adapted for use on either system. My forte is 1965 to the present, but there are members who have more knowledge about earlier periods. The info I referenced comes from Wikipedia and other web sources and from the books mentioned above.

Regards

Mike C

Lutz,

I don't want to get into an argument in this thread, but since Tal referenced the Roco Set in his initial post, I am sure that he is aware the model is from Roco. He may not know that similar models are also available from Maerklin (3 Rail AC) and Trix (2 Rail DC).

Maybe you know where Tal can find some prototypical Era II/III coaches that would allow him to reproduce a train from the 1930s?

Regards

Mike C

Very good informative thread overall, but for a single errant post..

Era II and III Swiss has started to catch my interest.

After this discussion about the Ae 3/6 II, I couldn't resist to buy one with the appropriate cars.

Here is the Ae 3/6 II made by Marklin #37513. It has a Mfx decoder but with limited functions though: it whistles and has a station announce in Swiss German dialect. Despite that, it's a beautiful model that runs smoothly.



Details of the wheels mechanism:




Following the advice of Mike C, I also bought the historical set from Roco #45916 containing 4 coaches appropriate to this era. I personally like the restaurant car: the interior looks very detailed. Only figures are missing now to recreate the impression of reality.

3rd class coach car:



Restaurant car:



Restaurant car: interior details



Detail of a 3rd coach car and the Concertina. If the car is used as a tail-car, a enclosed narrow concertina can be used.






PS: thanks Nevw. I couldn't remember the pictures links. So I had to reload them.

Edited by user 11 January 2011 03:17:34(UTC)  | Reason: I remove the trailing blank spaces after the .jpg

Welcome to the forum, Tal.

Nice looking locomotive with nice looking coaches.

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Ranjit

Welcome to the forum, Tal.


Very knowledgeable bunch of people.

Charles.

Very nice, Caralain.

Thank you Charlie and Steventrain.. I love this set.

I just saw lately that Roco has released a shunting locomotive build during the same era Ee 3/3 #68688 but shown as it was in the sixties. It would just matches perfectly my new Ae 3/6 II. Fortunately Christmas is coming in a few months!

Edited by user 11 January 2011 03:18:25(UTC)  | Reason: I remove the trailing blank spaces after the .jpg